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Thursday, 17 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 25, 2024

If Only They Told Me What’s Next

From the COLlive Inbox: I am 23, newly married, and embarking on an exciting new road, full of opportunities ahead. And yet, after 22 years in the system, I am scratching my head and honestly, I am totally confused… Full Story

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Yep
January 31, 2022 8:56 pm

Clap clap clap clap

well
Reply to  Yep
January 31, 2022 10:30 pm

The author makes a number of substantive points, and I will attempt to respond, or at least provide context, to each of them. — “[M]y sister always tells me that she and her peers have had so many conversations in class about Bayis Hayehudi… I don’t recall any such parallel curriculum on the other side of the Mechitza.” It’s true that bachurim aren’t taught much about running a Jewish home. But honestly, that’s unnecessary because the women are taught about it. Just as women aren’t taught smicha because their husbands will know the halachos anyway, bachurim don’t need to be… Read more »

Totally missed the point
Reply to  well
January 31, 2022 10:51 pm

I believe whoever wrote this response has no idea what actually goes on in the yeshiva system, totally missed the point on the article.

We might not get smicha
Reply to  well
January 31, 2022 10:57 pm

But we do learn relevant halachos. We’re not relying on our husbands for that.

Lol
Reply to  We might not get smicha
February 1, 2022 12:57 am

That’s something a person without smicha would say

Yeshiva?
Reply to  Lol
February 1, 2022 2:44 pm

which yeshivos did he go to? Wheschester?

Ridiculous
Reply to  well
January 31, 2022 11:05 pm

Your response to his pain is insensitive and ridiculous.

Not realistic for the masses
Reply to  well
January 31, 2022 11:19 pm

Why would you discourage someone’s quest for growth from a mentor?
The mainstream bochur who may struggle with learning will not be able to find the answers in a sefer. I believe that the Rebbe instructed us to have a mashpia which is what the writer sounds like he is asking for in a group setting.
So instead, offer a yashir koach for his desire to help others.

Strawman
Reply to  Not realistic for the masses
February 1, 2022 1:00 am

Nowhere in his comment did “well” say that the author of the article shouldn’t seek growth, or even a mentor of “Baal Habayis” nature. “Well” merely argued that *yeshivos* aren’t responsible for providing such mentorship.

Additionally, the article isn’t about the author’s desire to help people. It’s an indictment against yeshivos for failing to provide their students with, what he calls, “preparation.”

Dude you are out to lunch!
Reply to  well
February 1, 2022 8:09 am

You are so far off the point! It’s no wonder that so many kids struggle these days, the whole system is catered to the “elitist”, essentially you must be a chossid tzaddik who learns all day and becomes a rov/shliach! Let’s be real though, 85 percent of bochrim end up being regular “chassidim” with real jobs and real bills and real life issues, kids these days demand truth, they demand self growth in this modern world, not all can relate to being an illuy, you have to teach the majority practical life skills or you are just setting them up… Read more »

TRUE YET SO PAINFUL
Reply to  well
February 1, 2022 10:07 am

“Like it or not, the system is designed to create people who advance the Chabad movement, be it through shlichus or working for the holy mosdos.” This is true yet incomprehensible ..The Movement is advanced through Chassidishe BB too- and untill the 5th column of Chabad is recognized ..we will have 80% of Chassidim feeling disenfranchised Since when is there only Yissachar in Lubavitch ..Doesnt the Torah have a path of formal Chassidishe education for the Zevulun .. And sadly the proof is in the pudding …We could DO MUCH BETTER ..in terms of how our Young Balei Batim look… Read more »

5th column
Reply to  TRUE YET SO PAINFUL
February 2, 2022 9:07 pm

dont use that term until you learn what it means

Another Point
Reply to  well
February 1, 2022 10:08 am

Even if the correct place for these conversations were to take place were in 770..not in Yeshiva

Is anyone talking to our boys about it there…One word??!!??

The answer is a resounding NO

Kop Doktar
Reply to  well
February 1, 2022 10:35 am

“Well” gives a number of responses to the Op-Ed, and I will attempt to show how they mislead and grossly fail. ·       – “Just as women aren’t taught smicha because their husbands will know the halachos anyway, bachurim don’t need to be taught how to run a Jewish home—they can rely on their wives’ knowledge.” Even if this were true (which is a separate discussion), the older single or divorced/widower who may spend years living as a baal habos without a spouse, is ill-equipped for life outside the walls of yeshiva. ·         -“If you feel “equipped,” then you have nothing to strive… Read more »

Willie Chusid
Reply to  Kop Doktar
February 2, 2022 5:23 pm

Kop Doktar rocks! Git gezukt!

Omg are you even serious
Reply to  well
February 1, 2022 3:15 pm

Your role model is not supposed to be a “Chassidisher Baal Habais.” It’s supposed to be a shliach or a rosh yeshiva. Like it or not, the system is designed to create people who advance the Chabad movement, be it through shlichus or working for the holy mosdos. The system would be doing itself a disservice by inviting a Baal Habais to farbreng. Yes—ideally, less than 85% of your peers should become Baalei Batim.

WRONG!

And the really legit yeshivas are doing precisely that!

The issue is that there needs to be even more chassidishe baalei battim who will farbreng.

Designed to advance the Chabad Movement?!?
Reply to  well
February 1, 2022 6:46 pm

What hogwash.
Chabad chinuch is designed to reveal how ein od milvado, to make a dirah btachtonim, to bring Moshiach, to reveal our and others’ neshamos; NOT to advance our movement/ club.

Okay
Reply to  Designed to advance the Chabad Movement?!?
February 2, 2022 11:33 am

Sure thing, boss. But ein od milvado can be revealed and Moshiach can come only with the Chabad Movement’s assistance. Yeshivos are designed to increase the number of Chabad advocates in order to accomplish the goals you delineated.

Not only boys
January 31, 2022 8:59 pm

There’s a serious lack of educational and useful conversations on the female side of the mechitzas too.
System has a long way to go.

Not as a rule
Reply to  Not only boys
February 1, 2022 9:09 am

As a newly married female who went through the whole system, I was constantly educated about “what comes next”. High school and seminary taught us about bayis Yehudi and send even slightly covered the surfaces of Halachos in marriage. Having a Kallah teacher and a Mashpia to always reach out to us very helpful, and helps a very smooth transition into marriage. There are constant taharas hamishpocha classes and nshei farbrengens to keep women “in the system”, even after getting married.
I know I am not the only one to have gone through a very thorough system.

Another recently married female
Reply to  Not as a rule
February 6, 2022 7:51 pm

100% true

Well said
January 31, 2022 8:59 pm

It is time that the system wakes up and start teaching practical life to the bochurim. Home building be gashmius, work options being a chosid, finances.
The society is going for the expensive Sheitlach, dresses, baby carriages not to mention the future tuition bills. How they will keep up?
Hoping for good news.
Thank you for you super valid article.

There are people assisting Anash with careers
Reply to  Well said
February 1, 2022 6:14 am

There are multiple programs that offer all Crown Heights Chabad residents advice, assistance and even funding to help them find an honorable and kosher path to financial freedom and nice Parnassah. My own program, CH CAP, has given millions and helped well over 600 Chassidim become financially independent in an honorable way, giving many of them money towards their education and never charging any fees. Feel free to call me for information, if you want a “tachlis” training towards any form of training that will lead to a legitimate job. I can be reached at Y.ginzberg@Rabbi Moshe Wiener.org or at… Read more »

Yes
Reply to  Well said
February 1, 2022 10:28 am

Yes, 100% agreed

Classic crown heights mother
January 31, 2022 9:00 pm

So true!! We need moshiach already!

true admirer
Reply to  Classic crown heights mother
February 10, 2022 4:32 pm

this is truly one of the wisest comments ive seen. i respect this author immensely

Thank you for bringing up this important topic!
January 31, 2022 9:01 pm

As you have said, the girls do have it better than the guys. Although, I would say that I was so disappointed after my first year of Seminary that we didn’t have any proper Bayis Yehudi classes. I went to a mainstream, top lubavitch seminary and I feel like they lost the point. Baruch Hashem, I chose to go to Sem Beis Bais Rivkah and I finally got the education I wanted. I learned a lot from the Bayis Yehudi, Chinuch, and Shalom Bayis classes. Not everyone has the opportunity to do a 2nd yr Seminary and I think the… Read more »

Yes
Reply to  Thank you for bringing up this important topic!
January 31, 2022 10:14 pm

It would seem to be that girls are being taken care of more.
But this is a serious problem, if the boys aren’t being taught practicality.

Yes
Reply to  Thank you for bringing up this important topic!
January 31, 2022 10:21 pm

I think Beis Rivka is the only mainstream seminary that gives useful practical, bais yehudi classes

Not accurate
Reply to  Yes
February 1, 2022 9:14 am

Bais Chana Milan “specializes” in focusing on Bayis Yehudi and Shalom Bayis classes, they really emphasize on Jewish marriage. As a previous student from that sem, I would encourage girls to go there if they want to be educated on Jewish marriage and not have to take a second yr of seminary.

Do both!
Reply to  Not accurate
February 2, 2022 2:24 am

That’s wonderful to hear about Milan

But learning in seminary for another year isn’t a “punishment” that some “have to bear” because they missed out.

Do both! There is never enough you can learn about the most important things in life.

It really depends which sem you go to
Reply to  Thank you for bringing up this important topic!
February 1, 2022 5:39 am

Beis Rivka has an excellent bayis yehudi programme, especially in Sem Alef for the reason you gave – not everyone goes to Sem Beis. They have really in depth Bayis Yehudi classes, both regarding Hashkafa as well as Halacha. There are also lessons on Chinuch and shalom bayis too. Really 5*

It will be okay
January 31, 2022 9:02 pm

Sounds like someone is mad now that he has to work

Why project
Reply to  It will be okay
January 31, 2022 10:17 pm

Why the cynicism

Maybe he wants to get these essential core ideals of living as a Chossid from Yeshiva ..not being tossed into an ocean with barely a raft

Berel
Reply to  It will be okay
January 31, 2022 11:43 pm

Grow up

Not quite
Reply to  It will be okay
February 1, 2022 6:49 pm

Sounds like someone who wants to work is mad that he doesn’t have the skills to work because he wasn’t prepared. He wants to figure out how to work. A lot to juggle all at once- being newly married, needing to provide an income AND needing to learn how to provide a decent income!

No you didn't miss anything
January 31, 2022 9:02 pm

Its done on purpose. The system basically is telling you: follow your wife. Go along with whatever she says. Your mother agreed to her as a daughter in law because she knows which path you’ll be led to by following your wife. If men are taught how to run a home, it’s a lot contrary to what women are being taught and thus battle between husband and wife begin. So to make it easier on the system, they just say follow your wife and you’ll be fine. My suggestion is: go learn the GPS to a happy marriage (seferim, classes… Read more »

Huh ?
Reply to  No you didn't miss anything
January 31, 2022 10:18 pm

Men are meant to be humble Mashpiim in thier homes ..there is no excuses for our boorish ignorance

Humble or helpless?
Reply to  Huh ?
January 31, 2022 11:17 pm

Men tend to be humble but end up being helpless. When need to put their foot down for the right things they get lost and cant face the challenge. Regarding the excuse for boorish ignorance- ask your mother. Good luck!

My Mother
Reply to  Humble or helpless?
February 1, 2022 10:11 am

She wonders why after her taking a full time job to send me to Yeshiva and having spent over 100K to educate me …I am clueless about these critical life essential Chassidishe core principals

All due respect to your mother
Reply to  My Mother
February 1, 2022 2:30 pm

But if your mother is one of those mothers that ” I pay for your yeshiva university college etc… and the rest you have to find your way around in life” then she’s not a mother. A mother is suppose to guide her child – like set an example in manners, values, goals not just pay for tuition. You spend most of your life outside of a yeshiva then in a yeshiva, isn’t it more important to educate values and goals coming especially from your parents home?! To try to with G-d’s help build your future family based on those… Read more »

That's funny
Reply to  No you didn't miss anything
February 1, 2022 3:00 am

Bc girls r told to follow their husbands

Why?
January 31, 2022 9:03 pm

Lol! As a newlywed and a post seminary student this was always our question to the bayis yehudi teacher!

Incredible
January 31, 2022 9:04 pm

I can’t tell you how many times
I have felt the same

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Incredible
February 1, 2022 1:42 pm

Hopefully that’s only been in the past.
Share with everyone why that has changed for you.
Which I assume is thanks to you resolving life’s questions the Rebbe way, I.e. with you personal ״עשה לך רב״

Hmm
Reply to  עשה לך רב
February 1, 2022 3:03 pm

Isn’t a Mashpia to help with personal growth and decision making? Isn’t the purpose of education to educate?

So true totally agree!
January 31, 2022 9:04 pm

As bochrim we sit for hours a day learning, Farbrengen’s are ussually revolving around Chassidishe Yomim tovim… BUT WHAT ABOUT FARBRENGENS HOW TO DATE THE WAYS OF CHASSIDIM? What shana rishona really looks like? It frustrates me too and I hope we can open this conversation so change can finally happen ! Torah and Chassidishe has so much to offer not just in theory but for our day to day lives in such important matters and stages we embark on that is simply not spoken about!

What we were told....
January 31, 2022 9:05 pm

We were told that the boys learn this in a farbrengen style, and also that bringing up this topic may be untznius.

Really ?
Reply to  What we were told....
January 31, 2022 10:19 pm

To learn how to live Chassidus in real life is untznius ?

To learn how to intergrate life with our ideals is..

How?
Reply to  What we were told....
January 31, 2022 11:15 pm

The laws of niddah are literally discussed in the Gemara. How is bringing up Bayis Yehudi (which does not even touch that subject) untznius?

January 31, 2022 9:15 pm

This is the product of chasiddus being taught as a subject rather then a life- guide
Knowing what Atzilus is won’t help you in figuring out your marriage if you didn’t learn how apply it to your life…

Farbraingenens alone are not enough to give you the tools you need to navigate through this world, we need Mashpiem who ACTUALLY care and not just about your chassidish level but your emotional health as well, Bachurim need to be encouraged to talk about REAL LIFE issues, not just which Ma’amer to learn before Yud Shvat…

It’s about time we wake up
January 31, 2022 9:16 pm

It’s 2022 time to up the game! When their is access to so much garbage out there the least we can do as educators is give Hadracha the kosher way!

Good points
January 31, 2022 9:17 pm

It is true that girls are taught more of this but truthfully that isn’t enough either and it’s also biased and one-sided. Also, there is no career coaching in our school system. Many parents are not preparing their children in a practical and hashkafic sense for dating, marriage and making a livelihood. It is a huge disservice to the men and women who grow up in the system yet the system fails them time and again. I am also grappling with this though I’m in a different situation altogether. Unfortunately it means we have to grow up quickly and face… Read more »

The system has to change
Reply to  Good points
February 1, 2022 12:33 am

I don’t know much about the system for the boys but I can tell you that the girls system also needs to change. In high school we were constantly told that just like a we can’t survive without food, we need Torah to live. The fact that i ate last year isn’t enough to sustain me today. At the same time we are told to go to Seminary so we can learn as much as possible before going into real life. If my present learning can’t sustain me for the future why are we sitting in school for another year… Read more »

Learning as long as possible
Reply to  The system has to change
February 2, 2022 2:21 am

The Seder in Yiddishkeit is that as much as possible, until marriage one should be immersed in learning Torah – including Chassidus which affects your perspective and Emunah, and practical halacha. It’s not “stuffing knowledge”; it’s accumulating vital tools for life.

Once married and involved more in the world, one must still make time to learn. But it won’t be the same. Don’t shortchange yourself.

Yup
January 31, 2022 9:18 pm

You missed a lot

So wise one
Reply to  Yup
January 31, 2022 10:20 pm

Tell us …

100% agreee!!!
January 31, 2022 9:19 pm

We are not educated and prepared for marriage on so many levels

off topic, but . .
January 31, 2022 9:21 pm

get life insurance. get regular 30 year term life insurance. its very cheap. [protect your family.

Yes!!
Reply to  off topic, but . .
February 1, 2022 11:09 am

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND BUY LIFE INSURANCE!

Hanachos & Asei Lcha Rav
January 31, 2022 9:21 pm

1. Bochurim shouldn’t farbreng with chasidishe baalebatim. 2. I imagine you were taught hanachos, as a bochur, which are then meant to be applied in your life afterward. 3. As the Rebbe *begs*, find yourself an Asei Lcha Rav. 4. Being in the “business world” as a chosid is most definitely taught in a ribui simchas and maamorim, think “yegia kapecha” not Rosh etc, hanheg bohem minhag derech eretz, vchol maasecha lshem shomrim etc… Etc etc Again the underlying idea is that yeshiva is meant to implant hanachos and your Asei Lcha Rav is meant to help you in the… Read more »

My Mother
Reply to  Hanachos & Asei Lcha Rav
February 1, 2022 10:13 am

“Bochurim shouldn’t farbreng with chasidishe baalebatim” This is incomprehensible ..The Movement is advanced through Chassidishe BB too- and untill the 5th column of Chabad is recognized ..we will have 80% of Chassidim feeling disenfranchised  Since when is there only Yissachar in Lubavitch ..Doesnt the Torah have a path of formal Chassidishe education for the Zevulun .. And sadly the proof is in the pudding …We could DO MUCH BETTER ..in terms of how our Young Balei Batim look – if we only cared to educate them properly – how they matter and are part of the plan  Reb Mendel Futerfas spent… Read more »

What about bayis Yehudis classes for bochrim
January 31, 2022 9:23 pm

So true why should girls be having so many classes on bayis Yehudi and the boys have nothing! It sounds so not balanced and who suffers from that? A couple when they are married!

Oh!
January 31, 2022 9:26 pm

I thought a girl wrote this article and was getting more and more confused until I read the last paragraph

friends needed (not stature)
January 31, 2022 9:29 pm

These types of questions are meant to be between Real friends and oneself. You’re confused? Good! that means you are a human being that is searching for meaning and purpose. Life applauds you!
One piece of advice. don’t go to public forums (op-ed, Instagram, etc.) in search of answers to life’s most intimate questions.

Clap
Reply to  friends needed (not stature)
January 31, 2022 10:54 pm

Bh we have someone normal in this comment chat

עשה לך רב
Reply to  friends needed (not stature)
February 1, 2022 1:45 pm

If by that you mean a personal caring friendly ״עשה לך רב״ then I whole heartily agree with you!

You are spot on!

Hmm
Reply to  friends needed (not stature)
February 1, 2022 3:08 pm

Maybe we read two different articles. From what I understood, the author is attempting to make more people aware of the problem that we have in our educational system. What may have worked when our parents left Yeshiva and got married, just isn’t cutting it today.

“Am I missing something” seemed to imply, why is the system like this? And if there is no good reason, it’s time for a change.

Omg brilliant!
January 31, 2022 9:30 pm

So so true there is so much to know with married life, and business vs Shlichus it’s time we wake up and realize that there is so much to learn how to be a Chassidishe yungerman even if we didn’t end up on shlichus!!! There are 85% of us that didn’t go on shlichus now what? Why can’t we be guided how to lead a Chassidishe life beyond shlichus!!!

So much to know
Reply to  Omg brilliant!
February 1, 2022 9:02 am

Name 3.

Real life chinuch please
January 31, 2022 9:32 pm

Yes! Myself and many of my peers had zero direction. We were raised to be shluchim or teachers. Especially these days that accounts for so few of the bochurim/men of the community. So we struggled and some of us still struggle trying to figure out the world of business of supporting our family, literally feeling like we were thrown in the deep end. My wife had so much more knowledge about practical life and relationships and parenting and I came to the marriage with nothing but Torah learning under my belt. We are married many years but we paid for… Read more »

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Real life chinuch please
February 1, 2022 1:35 pm

In the meantime, though, I suggest, at least to Lubavitchers and others who recognize the Rebbe’s advice as being incredibly genius and beneficial for life, to read up on the Rebbe’s advice regarding the CRITICAL NEED for each individual to have an “עשה לך רב”! Which whom ALL questions and doubts are brought to, discussed and solved!

Chaim
January 31, 2022 9:33 pm

Welcome to the real world kid

What many girls think
January 31, 2022 9:35 pm

When I was in seminary, the girls would always ask, are the boys also taught this? We very quickly learnt that they did not, amd were informed that it is our job to teach our husbands. Things like how to have a good relationship will have to come from the girl’s initiative. Same with dating. I went to a dating course. As we were given great dating advice we kept saying “we wish the boys knew this too!” So many examples: dating etiquette, yichud, practical rules for interacting with the opposite gender when in the real world. Relationship skills. Boys… Read more »

Yes!
Reply to  What many girls think
January 31, 2022 10:19 pm

Why don’t bochurim learn the halachos of yichud??? It’s literally such important Halachos! Just like anything else!

So exhausting
Reply to  What many girls think
January 31, 2022 11:19 pm

As a not-so-newlywed, having heard the same in seminary not too long ago, explaining the nuances of a relationship to my husband is so exhausting, especially when emotions are involved at the same time.

Did no one tell you?
January 31, 2022 9:36 pm

Dear Friend,

I am sure that throughout your education you were encouraged multiple times to select a mashpia, someone who you could speak with to ask questions and to guide you.

I am sure that when you went to choson classes your teacher encouraged you to call if you need any assistance or advice.

Where is your pain coming from?

Please explain this
Reply to  Did no one tell you?
January 31, 2022 10:24 pm

A Mashpia is for personal subjective questions ..not for central themes that seem to apply for the majority of students of Tomchei Temimim ..

Mashpia
Reply to  Please explain this
February 1, 2022 3:50 am

Who made that up? A Mashpia is for any question you might have. And this whole article just shows that the person should get a mashpia and hopefully be able to ask him any question that he has.

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Mashpia
February 1, 2022 1:46 pm

Correct!

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Please explain this
February 1, 2022 1:29 pm

Incorrect!
The Rebbe gave clear guidance on this, and ALL important questions (even those which בהשגח״פ someone ELSE made the claim to us that this it is important, in THIER view, and therefore, you should reconsider the matter appropriately – by referring the question to your personal רב/משפיע).

Do you have excess Netzach?
Reply to  עשה לך רב
February 4, 2022 1:15 pm

Your knee jerk reaction is not well thought out.

Realistically, there are farbrengens and training that needs to happen, notwithstanding the need for mashpiim.

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Did no one tell you?
February 1, 2022 1:46 pm

Spot on!!
Bravo!

Yossi K
January 31, 2022 9:40 pm

Your article brings tears to my eyes. You are 1 million &1% correct.

Yeh
January 31, 2022 9:44 pm

Your parents are normally the role models…

Yeah
Reply to  Yeh
February 1, 2022 1:44 pm

Yes, but like it or not kids and teens spend more time at school then they do at home, so the message and things the schools are teaching really gets put into them.

So many years away from home
Reply to  Yeh
February 1, 2022 6:58 pm

Parents are role models, but bochurim spend so many years away from home that they don’t get so much time to observe what exactly makes a home run. They come in and out for yomim tovim and special occasions and are rarely around in everyday life. By the time they come back home, they’re ready to date. Yeshiva, where bochurim spend more than half their life, also needs to address Chassidishe life as a Baal Habos.

On fire
January 31, 2022 9:44 pm

Seems like you are full of passion. And in your heart, you’re alive. 2 thoughts: 1) I hope you’re only frustrated about this issue. Sometimes we get upset about something else in our lives, and we blame the system, in a cry of despair or loneliness. 2. Maybe just maybe, that is take’h our shita, to fall into life – directly from the life of yeshiva. Perhaps the guy who on the contrary grows up his whole life thinking about tachlis, parnassa, and life and thinks he has a plan for his future, actually loses all his idealism and inspiration… Read more »

valid point, bad education
January 31, 2022 9:53 pm

it seems you went to the wrong yeshivos, and your parents have the role of teaching you these things along with COMMON SENCE.
everybody has to grow up and make the big decisions, nobody said life is easy! man up and stop complaining, maybe when u have kids one day iyh you can actually educate them!

"wrong yeshivos"?
Reply to  valid point, bad education
February 1, 2022 8:57 am

Implying that the “right” yeshiva would teach him what he was missing? Okay. Please name that yeshiva because I don’t think anyone here has gone to it.

And what’s a wrong yeshiva?

Wrong Yeshivah
Reply to  "wrong yeshivos"?
February 2, 2022 8:36 am

I’ll give a few examples of a wrong yeshivah. 1) A yeshivah whose central purpose is to produce shluchim is the wrong yeshivah for most students. The brightest of them figure out what’s going on and are quickly disillusioned. They do not receive the education that they need. This can and often does lead to an alienation from Lubavitch. 2) A yeshivah that makes an example of a student who is having a tough time. The hand that punishes is there; the hand that brings close is completely absent. The student who is embarrassed and humiliated before the entire student… Read more »

Umm
Reply to  valid point, bad education
February 1, 2022 3:12 pm

Please stay away from impressionable children and teens of all and any ages.

This is not how we educate.

It is unfair
January 31, 2022 10:01 pm

It is unfair for our boys to start life with their hands tied behind their back. Teach them life skills.
We want them to have successful marriages be good fathers not struggle financially so why don’t we give them a head start by teaching them?

The Elephant In The Room
Reply to  It is unfair
February 1, 2022 9:45 pm

Or at least teaching them just one thing!
Namely:
To get a personal mentor! (“עשה לך רב)

OK, here's something to get you started
January 31, 2022 10:02 pm

Here are a few rules for material life (for marital life and chassidish life turn to your mashpia): 1. Start saving money. Put something -anything- away on a regular basis. It can be in a savings account, under a mattress – whatever. 2. Get life insurance. Getting it now won’t be that expensive. It will help your spouse/children if something happens to you C”V (the added benefit will be there won’t be a crowdfunding campaign for the yesomim) 3. Own property. Your dream house will be yours one day but that isn’t today. So start with something smaller, perhaps just… Read more »

עשה לך רב
Reply to  OK, here's something to get you started
February 1, 2022 1:51 pm

Slight correction:

All of life’s questions should be discussed with someone objective, but not stam someone, specifically one’s ״עשה לך רב״.

Even if you are sure you will not benefit from discussing a particular important decision with him/her, try it! you will be surprised time and again, how doing so will always produce a benefit to the subject matter!

Missing the point
January 31, 2022 10:05 pm

I happen to know this guy

He isn’t angry, blaming nor was asking for career planning ..THAT IS NOT CHABAD

Simply what is the model for Chassidishe Balanced Living beyond just Shlichus

Why is this about going to a Mashpia?

Why can’t this be taught in a healthy way as this is what 85% of guys are choosing

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Missing the point
February 1, 2022 1:54 pm

It’s not either or!

Yes! It should be taught!

And YES! Even if wasn’t, an ״עשה לך רב״ is still a bullet-proof solution to this very problem!

Amazing!!!
January 31, 2022 10:06 pm

Very well said!!!
Yes! I have the same question… why girls are much more prepared during the years of high school and seminary and bochurims no?!?!?!

Girls aren’t
Reply to  Amazing!!!
February 1, 2022 12:58 am

Yes, to some extent we are more prepared for marriage then guys are and that is why we do get married younger then men but when I was in high school and still now, with my sister being in high school I know that there is no talk about marriage, halachos of niddah etc We aren’t prepared for marriage unless we go to Seminary where you learn more about marriage but in some cases girls aren’t going to seminary because they want to get married! However they have no tools only because in high school this is not being taught!!!!… Read more »

Hmmm
Reply to  Girls aren’t
February 1, 2022 8:09 am

Definitely no need to learn hilchos nidda in high school (that’s what kallah/chossan classes are for and you don’t need that much time for it to marinate). Definitely wouldn’t hurt to teach about healthy living mentally and physically tho.

Oh no
Reply to  Girls aren’t
February 1, 2022 9:23 am

Maybe both women and men should wait until they’re older and more educated in life before they get married.

Teaching about marriage in high school is insane, these kids are teenagers.

Maybe teens need to be young single adults in their 20s just living life, and then consider marriage later on once they’re more emotionally ready.

KUDOS TO THE FRINGE YESHIVOS
January 31, 2022 10:09 pm

where they DO teach and discuss REAL LIFE issues – and circle times that allows for open discussions…. i graduated last year and feel way more prepared than my mainstream yeshiva friends… the discussions were open honest- no holds bar…and i was thinking…i wonder if only Yeshivas would allow such open frank discussions on any topics- maybe bochurim wouldn’t fall in to addictions…that they do in privacy…. ALL GUYS grapple with teen stuff….not just our yeshiva….

New Podcast to Help Navigate Shidduchim
Reply to  KUDOS TO THE FRINGE YESHIVOS
February 1, 2022 11:31 am

so true- there needs to be open discussion in all mainstream yeshivos…about time
everything else is out there….better they get hashkafa from inside….while they are still innocent and in a misgeres

Mashpia
January 31, 2022 10:11 pm

Get a mashpia, that was the rebbes bakasha nafshis exactly to guide you either this

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Mashpia
February 1, 2022 1:57 pm

Exactly!

Though, I’m sure you can still also agree with him, that being taught a bit more about how to navigate life (life perhaps חובת הלבבות שער הבטחון) would also be a great help, as part of the core curriculum!

They’re struggling financially…
January 31, 2022 10:12 pm

Because they’re deprived of a basic education. Being a Torah scholar and a chasidishe Bochur is not enough to support a family. There’s your “system”. Keep them locked in, rinse and repeat.

yup
Reply to  They’re struggling financially…
January 31, 2022 10:52 pm

someone gets it

you missed a lot!!
January 31, 2022 10:18 pm

you missed the basic understanding that there’s no such thing as a “chasidishe balebos” that doesn’t go on shlichus

Are you narrow-minded?
Reply to  you missed a lot!!
February 1, 2022 8:44 am

Not everyone is cut out for shlichus! You can be a VERY chassidishe balabos, doing what the Rebbe wants in your own daled amos! The problem with some people think that our system is either shlichus or bust! The author is 100% on target, and this should open an honest discussion among mechanchim. Don’t blame the system. Whatever a mashpia is passionate about he will farbreng about. Perhaps a new mantra should be basics, בכל דרכיך דעהו! … And if you can be a shliach, and teach this to others, great. If not, by your daily actions לשם שמים, your… Read more »

You are gold
Reply to  Are you narrow-minded?
February 1, 2022 9:33 pm

Since when did Lubavitch get so narrowminded ..thats there is one way to serve ..or else
12 Shevatim ..12 Paths ..

Chosson teacher
January 31, 2022 10:19 pm

I think its his job. he can dedicate at least few classes on the above issues. You can’t expect a mashpia in yeshiva to discuss shanah rishona. And dating ? Bachurim that are entering the dating scene should have such classes from a qualified person or lubavitch professional. Parents can also help out

עשה לך רב
Reply to  Chosson teacher
February 1, 2022 1:58 pm

Correct!
But incorrect!
Each individual needs their own personal mentor!!! (“עשה לך רב”)

Another perspective....
January 31, 2022 10:23 pm

I wonder if the writer of this article spent a year in Kollel, as was strongly encouraged by the Rebbe. I believe that is where much direction is given by peers and Rabonim (albiet indirectly) on how to set up your life. I wonder too, as someone else wondered, is a Mashpiah part of the picture? That is also a very useful tool for manuevering life, so wisely put upon us by our Rebbe. I wonder too, is there a kvius itim BaTorah — ideally with a Chavrusah. That too helps with guidance from each other. While your idea of… Read more »

I am in Kollel
Reply to  Another perspective....
January 31, 2022 11:08 pm

Who exactly is discussing these issues

You are dreamimg

Kollel... Great while we're at it already
Reply to  Another perspective....
February 1, 2022 12:55 am

One that too is a failed system. You need to be excepted to a kollel. No one tells You that!!! There was a big shock when my husband didn’t get excepted to learn in one!!! Than your even more lost, and Oh ye, once your married and not using birth control and Your husband tries to learn in a kollel that doesn’t pay (because he wasn’t accepted to a paying one) and his new wife gets too ill to work due to pregnancy, then your really lost trying to pay bills with a new sick wife (that no one either… Read more »

Nooope
Reply to  Another perspective....
February 4, 2022 5:24 am

The limited amount of “advice” my husband did get in Kollel was so terrible we almost divorced.

Mashpia
January 31, 2022 10:24 pm

The Rebbe instructed and reminded us many times to get a Mashpia. The job of parents are to guide their children from the day they are born. It’s not fair to blame the school system. Today there are quite a few Chassidishe marriage coaches and others in the community one can go to for guidance.
I wish you and all the others who are confused to take a positive step and seek the help they need.

Shlichus!
January 31, 2022 10:24 pm

If business life is not for you, then it’s clearly not your tachlis and kavana.
Go on Shlichus you farmer!

It's about making bochurim not chassishe yungerlei
Reply to  Shlichus!
February 1, 2022 1:21 pm

To whoever wrote this silly comment , please do the world a favor and don’t go on shlichus. If that is your response to a fellow jew, you can you’re not shlichus material. Perhaps you should help out on a farm?

Fake comment
Reply to  Shlichus!
February 1, 2022 2:01 pm

This is clearly a “troll”, someone trying to make us laugh!

Smile!

100%
January 31, 2022 10:32 pm

You are right 100% right. How come only the girls are taught this in high school, and even more so when they go through seminary, and the boys don’t have any mention of this. It’s like it’s a davar asor and don’t you dare mention any sentence lest a word about it. Personally I think that from zal they should have shuirim or some sort of curriculum about this. Crazy to think why we wait until the last minute and then we complain about the problom afterwards. Kol hakovod to you for bringing this up.

High school?
Reply to  100%
February 1, 2022 1:00 am

We are not taught anything regarding marriage in high school!!

Not sure about you
Reply to  High school?
February 1, 2022 7:40 am

But in my school we definitely did

Whoops
Reply to  High school?
February 1, 2022 3:56 pm

What high school did you go to? Most high schools teach you very well about marriage, chinuch and the type of home you want to build

Check out Bais Schneur
January 31, 2022 10:34 pm

In Bais Schneur they really address these things. We had Bayis Yehudi class ever day and the Rabbi really got into life after Yeshiva

Yup
Reply to  Check out Bais Schneur
February 2, 2022 6:41 pm

I can’t attest, that place changed my life…I’m 18

Parents
January 31, 2022 10:38 pm

Parents are the ones responsible to address all the points to touched on, both for their sons and daughters

Parents
Reply to  Parents
February 1, 2022 10:32 am

Many parents struggle as there is a generation gap and they arent as attuned

Dont outsource schools responsibility

Well said!
January 31, 2022 10:42 pm

Shlichus is not available to most these days. Farbrengens should not revolve around Shlichus for that reason. Bochurim should be taught how to live in velt with Yiras Shomayim, Hiskashrus and how to setup a Chasidishe home….

Yes
January 31, 2022 10:43 pm

You missed something. Learning how to read without nekudos.

This article is only scratching the surface
January 31, 2022 10:50 pm

This article begs the obvious question: What is the point of yeshiva anyway? (Of course, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t go to yeshiva. I’m just trying to bring up this question.) If Yeshiva is to prepare you for life, then it fails. But if it’s for something else, then maybe yeshivos aren’t to blame for not “preparing” the guys. But if so, what is yeshiva for?

Bais Rivkah Seminary
January 31, 2022 11:02 pm

The girls are taught to go to seminary,then get engaged,get married (KSCVK) will pay for their wedding expenses. The parents used whatever savings they had for seminary. Then the issue of rent comes up. It is impossible for this kollel couple to pay rent, etc. Unless it is covered by the landlord or by the inlaws. The chassanim are in kollel and the only girls that can afford rent are the ones that got a degree. When these girls entered Bais Rivkah seminary,they were made to feel like they wouldnt be considered chassidishe girls if they went for the BA… Read more »

Show me the money
Reply to  Bais Rivkah Seminary
February 1, 2022 1:41 am

The previous generation who often came from more modern homes at birth got money from their parents. The next generation don’t have that source of income so are now struggling to survive because they don’t have employment prospects either.

Was literally just talking abt this
Reply to  Bais Rivkah Seminary
February 1, 2022 5:44 am

Don’t go to college, don’t get a degree, even from us, but we won’t hire you without it!

What being Chassidish means
Reply to  Bais Rivkah Seminary
February 2, 2022 2:12 am

It’s understandable to feel frustrated when money is tight, whether as parents paying tuition or young married in Kolel trying to make ends meet. But aside from the fact that finding someone to blame is unhelpful, consider this: The choices one makes as a chosid are about living one’s life in accordance with the guidance and direction of the Rebbe trusting that he knows what is best for us bruchniyus and bgashmius. They are NOT about what anyone will “consider” or “not consider” us to be. Choose Yiddishe, Chassidishe Chinuch, including seminary, for yourself or your children because it is… Read more »

Rebbe
January 31, 2022 11:02 pm

This article is long time overdue. Anyone that has quick smart comments obviously does not relate, and is part of the problem. There is no quick fix. But a bit of education, and a good support system can go a long way.. The reason this wasn’t such a issue back in the day is because everyone just wrote to the Rebbe, every shidduch, any job opportunity that came up. And any life issue that came up. They got real and direct answers. Yes, we can still write in to the rebbe. And you should too.. But it does not in… Read more »

Which system????
January 31, 2022 11:11 pm

Where are the fathers educating their sons??? The educational system is fully flawed mainly because educators don’t get livable salaries. The system does not only have to be changed but totally uprooted. These topics are so innate no amount of classes can help. A healthy home with healthy involved parents is the ONLY solution. Being that to many of us were not raised in a great environment, adopt your friends family as your own and learn from them. Stop blaming the system that does not really exist!

Don't blame the system
January 31, 2022 11:15 pm

As a bochur who went through the system, I have to say, that where this bochur went wrong is to think that the system is going to figure everything out for him. Some things must be decided on a personal basis, based on what’s right for the person. When you speak about life in a public setting there are too many ways to go about it. Speak to somebody you’re comfortable with and decide on a game plan. Ask for advice and speak with them about what are your strengths and how you can achieve some goals. Set aside time… Read more »

100%
January 31, 2022 11:16 pm

If I was a rav In a city (CH and beyond) I would create a pre- marriage seminar about mental health ,addiction,abuse,healthy communication etc.

I would not be mesader kedushin unless the girls and boys took the course before marriage .

This is crucial.

Boys go from yeshivah to marriage with no clue about any of these topics.

Many broken engagements and divorces would be prevented this way as well.

Maybe one day this will happen

Problem
January 31, 2022 11:27 pm

Because unfortunately in the system, boys are distrusted so much that there’s a fear that discussing anything that isn’t Torah, will lead to r”l… Girls on the hand are trusted. As flawed and old-fashioned as it is, that’s the foundation of the system.

Confused
January 31, 2022 11:30 pm

BH
Sorry your so confused. Do you have parents??!?!? Where were they.
It’s the PRIMARY job for the PARENTS to educate the child. School is supplementary

Parents
Reply to  Confused
February 1, 2022 10:35 am

Funny you say that ..Many of my friends have been out of our homes from Mesivta and on ..Yeshivos have to bear the responsibility as they are literally the caretakers

It’s called adulthood
January 31, 2022 11:40 pm

Everybody feels that way at your age, and probably will for their whole lives. I do, and I didn’t grow up chabad. Modern,, charedi, you name it…; it’s the human condition. This is the stage of your life where you have to find the answers yourself. If you think you “missed” the answers to life because somebody didn’t tell them to you, you “missed” the boat. Growing up is במקום שאין איש השתדל להיות איש. No one can spoon feed you meaning, purpose and truth. You have to take the *tools* you have (including and especially the chassidishe ones) and… Read more »

Berel
January 31, 2022 11:41 pm

I think the reason is that these are things best understood in context. And the youth have very little context. At the same time, this subject is very much a learn on the job affair and the right thing to do (and the only thing you can do) is to start learning now. Find yourself a mashpia, someone truly wise about this side of life, and organize shiurim and farbregens with your cohorts and start asking the questions and getting answers. You write as if it is too late and I don’t rightly relate to your fatalism. You’re in shana… Read more »

Organized classes
January 31, 2022 11:51 pm

The way I see it, it’s not that these things aren’t discussed in Yeshivos, but that they are not always presented in as organized a fashion as they are in the girl’s schools. I was Benched to attend a Yeshiva where the subjects of dating and marriage were discussed in a lengthy class dedicated to preparing us for this new stage of life that we were about to enter, providing guidance that is in line with our values as yidden and chassidim. I really appreciated having that, because it helped me begin to shift my mindset and feel more prepared… Read more »

Excellent points. Plus, what am I supposed to do?
January 31, 2022 11:54 pm

All these are excellent points. Another thing is: What am I supposed to do when I grow up? If I don’t want to go on Shlichus, and am not cut out as an entrepreneur, what am I supposed to do for a living?

Study something
Reply to  Excellent points. Plus, what am I supposed to do?
February 1, 2022 10:02 am

Study something and get a 9-5 job

No foundation
Reply to  Study something
February 1, 2022 7:12 pm

As a teacher, i can say that above-average students can catch up later and “teach themselves” English, or quickly catch up when taught. For the average student, the many missed years of foundational English reading and writing skills make it very hard to catch up later, and many have difficulty going on to higher education to learn a profession.

You clearly missed the point.
January 31, 2022 11:57 pm

The goal of education is to empower the student to one day forge his own path to success. Dude, your not in kindergarten anymore. There’s no Ikea manual to life. It’s time to man up and figure out your own life.

no empowerment
Reply to  You clearly missed the point.
February 1, 2022 9:05 am

you’ve hit on the problem. people aren’t being empowered to do that. so they might not be in kindergarten but if they weren’t given the tools than they can be 30 and still lost.

So true!
January 31, 2022 11:57 pm

As a women I know this to be true! The girls are full of bayis yehudi, shas chinuch etc
So many teharas hamishpacha haskafah reviews only to retun home to a husband that has not had the same direction, they don’t want us being their teachers
I agree change is needed

A real eye opener
January 31, 2022 11:58 pm

I have just applied to chitrik for next year. I’m simply not getting the education I deserve here in oholei torah

LOL
Reply to  A real eye opener
February 1, 2022 1:00 pm

LOL! best comment on here!!
Mishenichnas Adar!

The only truth
Reply to  A real eye opener
February 1, 2022 4:00 pm

Someone got their priorities right, finally 🤣

Just a thought
February 1, 2022 12:50 am

By the boys, we are basically out of the system by 19/20 yrs old. After shiur dales, comes shlichus, smicha when you are (in a practical sense) not a yeshiva student any more. It’s not so practical to prepare a bochur for life when he is still immature and a few years before marriage. So you kind of have to look for it on your own… (Small tip: before entering the dating/ relationship world, listen as much as you can to Manis Friedman , YY Jacobson and others to get some perspective. Also, look for advice from people you respect… Read more »

Confused
February 1, 2022 12:54 am

The Rebbe wrote a set of 3 books called “Eternal Joy” to guide exactly these stages of every bochur & girl .
Why are they not recommended ?? A mashpia would explain, guide & answer questions guided by the Rebbe’s words.
What a travesty.
Not ONE person has mentioned them.
It is so sad as these anxieties could be avoided

Those books were not arranged by the Rebbe
Reply to  Confused
February 1, 2022 7:21 pm

They were arranged by a rabbi and based on answers that people sent the Rebbe over the years.

Blue Shirt
February 1, 2022 1:03 am

I think there is a big issue that the article photo had a Yungerman with a blue shirt.

Bichlal, once you change your white shirt, it goes down hill from there.

(from experience)

Actually
Reply to  Blue Shirt
February 1, 2022 9:01 am

Placing importance on shirt color is part of the problem.

let's blame colored shirts
Reply to  Blue Shirt
February 1, 2022 9:19 am

Meanwhile boomers are probably really confused since when they left yeshivas wearing colored shirts was actually quite normal. But now they realized. It’s been all downhill once they did that. Yep.

Sad
Reply to  Blue Shirt
February 1, 2022 11:55 am

Wow, what a comment. There are those who wear the white and are worse then the ones in blue. Color of shirts has nothing to do with it. If u changed cuz of a shirt, then maybe you should evaluate urself first. Before commenting on other ppl

Bwahahahahah!!!!
Reply to  Blue Shirt
February 1, 2022 5:29 pm

my drink literally came through my nose when I read this comment. The white shirt rule came in the late 90s. Before then everyone wore colored shirts during the week and white on shabbos. They changed the rules which probably is a good thing for the yeshiva itself. The challenges in chassidishkeit happened to occur AFTER this rule. I don’t think it makes a difference, but if you’re correlating anything here, with your logic connecting to what shirt is being worn, since most of the problems started AFTER they BEGAN wearing white shirts, perhaps you could simply fix the problem… Read more »

Show me the money
February 1, 2022 1:43 am

Lubavitcher men aren’t even taught to tuck their shirt in, at what point did you think this education was coming?

The problem is on both sides of the mechitza
February 1, 2022 1:51 am

Girls can go around priding themselves that they are much better prepared and equipped for real life and marriage. Very often they can even repeat word for word complete sentences their teachers told them, but still have a little clue what marriage is really about. I often observe situations with newlyweds where a girl can use her “superior knowledge” to down talk her “lessly educated” male counterpart, when in reality both are equally clueless. Making marriage work is a choice and a long painstaking journey of hard work and toil. No class in Yeshiva or Seminary will take it’s place.… Read more »

Importance of good parenting...
February 1, 2022 2:53 am

Somehow there are hundreds and actually thousands of yeshiva Bochrim that transition well into the next phases of their lives. I’m sure many of them went through the exact same “system” you did. So what’s the disconnect? What worked for them that didn’t work for you? (it’s hard to believe that 85% of Bochrim feel the same way as you). My guess is that most Bochrim learn from their parents and their surroundings. Whether directly or by osmosis. Plus, many of the specifics are taught during Chosson classes. There’s is also always a Mashpia to turn to. If you’re advocating… Read more »

PERL ARBOR
February 1, 2022 5:03 am

THE WHOLE POINT WHY A PARENT EDUCATES THEIR CHILD BY SENDING HIM TO YIDDISHE, NOT SECULAR, MOISDOIS IS SO THAT CHILD LEARNS HOW TO CONDUCT HIM OR HERSELF TO KNOW HOW TO BUILD A BAYIS NEEMAN BYISROEL.

A Mashpia/Coach
February 1, 2022 6:42 am

While this is a good question about the yeshiva system, the best proactive solution that young men can take into their own hands is to have a dedicated mashpia or coach to guide them (even if that will likely cost money at this stage). In my experience with this challenge, this is what helped, and my only regret is that I didn’t do it earlier.

Dropout
February 1, 2022 7:27 am

I felt this way all my years in yeshiva and Bh I dropped out by 19 and took initiative to learn these things on my own.

It’s a shame that in this world the ones who blindly follow end up disappointed.

This goes for the ones blindly following the yeshiva system without exploring what’s next on their own.

Or the ones blindly following the science.

Trust hashem but not man. While yeshiva might study the word of hashem, it doesn’t include everything and the system is not hashem.

Same same
February 1, 2022 8:16 am

All my mashpia ever talked about was going on shlichus. As if anything else was for the nebachs…. Totally agree with you in that sense. But parents need to have common sense and teach their children basics as my father did for me

Sorry to hear
February 1, 2022 8:42 am

For the first few years out of Kollel or yeshiva its always a struggle in many ways. I found that working for a place like bandh and similar with other frum people really helped me to see that new side of life. Also, no shame in asking parents to help for a few short years to establish yourself, that’s just how it it. Also whats good about bh is its still close to yeshiva life your used to..there are many companies like that thay will.allow you to have an easy landing and learn the ropes

Parent
Reply to  Sorry to hear
February 1, 2022 7:17 pm

Nice to say to ask your parents for help. I’m a parent who would love to be able to help my children financially but after all the years of paying for Yeshiva/seminary/ weddings etc, I am not able to help!

No One is Taught This
February 1, 2022 8:50 am

I’m Ba’al Tchuvah. I went to public high school and college, then married. No one is taught what you are asking for unless your parents teach you, which mine did. If my classmates didn’t have parents who taught them, they looked for adult mentors. What you need to do is decide what you want to do for a career, get educated, then do your career choice as a chassid. Even when babies IYH arrive, you can easily do this for a few years…this is how everyone else does this…why not you?

No high school diploma or money for college
Reply to  No One is Taught This
February 1, 2022 6:11 pm

Many bohrim don’t have secular education so college is not a next step but getting a school diploma /ged to get to the college.
The pass of secular learning is not available or available in a very limited format

The other possibility lack of funds to do all above

As it should be
Reply to  No high school diploma or money for college
February 2, 2022 1:44 am

It’s only a recent “post gimel tamuz”, “heter” that people have invented, that it’s permissible to learn limudei chol after your chasuna….

#Modox”Chabad” or more accurately phrased “confused, disconcerted souls”

So true
February 1, 2022 8:51 am

This article is so true!! I’ve been saying this for years!! Definitely need change!!! But this doesn’t stop with yeshiva,/seminary ..what are all the Sholom bayis etc lectures always for ladies???
And to whoever said that the woman are supposed to teach their husbands..that in itself is a recipe for problems!

Most Shalom Bayis Issues
Reply to  So true
February 1, 2022 9:36 pm

are because of the ladies ..and thier overspending and unrealistic expectations..Hence they need to calm down and chill ..so we can live

Just a thought
February 1, 2022 9:32 am

What if we stopped pushing young people to get married before they’re ready?

Our 20s should be for exploring and questioning and figuring out life, our 30s and 40s and beyond too.

If we get married and immediately start having kids and freaking out over a retirement plan, IN OUR EARLY 20S, a panic attack and total confusion is to be expected.

WOAH
Reply to  Just a thought
February 2, 2022 1:45 am

Please kindly return your worldview to where it came from. This is most definitely not a Torah or Chasidus perspective.

Cool cool
Reply to  WOAH
February 2, 2022 10:09 am

Cause clearly the perspective you’re referring to is working out great.

You got it all wrong
February 1, 2022 9:47 am

The reason you feel this way is not because they didn’t tell what to do after Yeshivah, it’s because you never set your foundations IN Yeshivah.
If you would have really developed a feeling towards Yiddishkeit and Chassidishkeit in Yeshivah than all of these experiences would just be a way to channel all of the things you live for in your life.
In short the Yeshivah system is not good at doing that (instilling love and realness for Yiddishkeit) so that’s why you are feeling this way.

To: "well"
February 1, 2022 10:24 am

Your entire answer sounds like
You’re desperately trying to
“PROTECT THE SYSTEM”
So if the “SYSTEM” Is one that needs YOUR protection.
Then………………..

the one writing “WELL”
Is also very aggressive in trying to ridicull the writer of the article.

Chasidus doesn’t teach us to ridicull another yid

TO : “WELL”
TRY TO IMPROVE YOURSELF

System needs improvement
February 1, 2022 10:34 am

Our school systems need to be improved. We learn and spend so much time in school but the things that we are taught don’t help us in the long run. We need classes that will teach us what we actually need to know in life.

Beautiful
February 1, 2022 10:36 am

Beautifully written thank you for writing it
The yeshiva system has long needed a overhaul
Let’s all work together to reform the system
If you can go into chinuch and reform the system
Yosef Mendel

Home, Parents and Personal Mashpia
February 1, 2022 10:40 am

While I do understand and feel the pain here, as someone who went through the same system, I was able to fill that void through a combination of watching my parents home, my wife watching her parents home and us choosing what we felt was important to agree on. Of course its not easy but there was a base for us to build off of. Also, with dating you can consult with your parents and mashpias of your choice. your time spent doing shlichus in other places over summers etc should have also given you some clue how the world… Read more »

I am tired of looking for bandaids
Reply to  Home, Parents and Personal Mashpia
February 1, 2022 9:38 pm

the point is to look and peer deeply into the soul of the system and demand change from there

YOu are lucky to have that not everyone does

Yehuda
February 1, 2022 11:38 am

As a Litvisher Yungerman I will give an outsiders Perspective. The fact that this fellow is struggling with his new role in life is not a cause for concern. Bumps and falls are to be expected When the training wheels are taken off. The fact that this chosid put pen to paper shows that he is aware of the Nisayonos that he is now encountering and he is determined to be Misgaber over them. The Way he expresses himself and the Devarim Shel Taam that he employs to make his point show that the years of Chadisus and Torah that… Read more »

Help
February 1, 2022 11:49 am

Sage council I believe that regarding marriage we should learn from the Rebbe and make it a top priority, set time daily exclusively for your spouse. No distractions, no phone no shiur absolutely nothing to distract you It may only be 30 mins daily but never miss. It must be a priority. The results will speak for themselves. A second comment:. Look to say, do something/s positive for your spouse ( that they, not you will appreciate) every day. The investment is one of the best you can make the dividends will be manyfold. Final comment, in the business world… Read more »

True point
February 1, 2022 12:01 pm

This article is great and eye opening . Bochurim need to be taught the responsibilities of being married and maintaining a home and having kids. And some parents dont teach their kid this, which is unfortunate. But marriage is work! And all of a sudden there will be all these expenses, and you are required to support the family, a women who just had a baby shouldn’t have to to go back to work 6 weeks later, cuz they NEED the money, that is on the husband. And husband helping out with kids too, is important. I cant tell you… Read more »

I really think this is a different problem
February 1, 2022 12:48 pm

It’s all because of the sheitels. If people would only wear sheitels that we’re shorter and less looking like hair, everything would be better. Bracha comes from a woman who covers her hair in the best way possible.

It's about making bochurim not chassishe yungerlei
February 1, 2022 1:14 pm

Sadly the focus of the “system” – funny term in the itself – is only focused on making chassishe bochrim, not chassidishe yungerleit, parents, or even shluchim. Existence of life beyond yeshiva is, for all intents and purposes denied. Seldom is a thought given to what will happen when they get married and enter the real world Mashpiim may argue that its important for bochurim to stay focused, or they may say that they DO prepare the bochurim. Some may feel that they do but in reality they don’t. Having been in yeshiva since they were bochurim, many of the… Read more »

this is not limited to the lubavitcher system
February 1, 2022 1:14 pm

I am sorry that you are frustrated with where you are in life. the reality is that this is not limited to lubavitcher system. it is a universal problem so stop blaming it on the yeshiva system. Read or listen to rich dad poor dad (its on youtube) and he makes the identical point in the intro to his book. There is academic education and there is real life education. Perhaps you can be part of the solution of creating a ciriculum that will helps schools prepare children for the real world? if you are disturbed by the problem perhaps… Read more »

עשה לך רב
February 1, 2022 1:18 pm

The elephant in the room is that too many of us fail to fulfil the Rebbe’s בקשה נפשית of having a personal ״עשה לך רב״!

Even if one goes through the worst Yeshivah, if they refer all their questions to their personal רב (who is a ביישן, רחמן and גומל חסדן, and a ירא שמיים) they will never end up confused or have a lack of clarity on these (life’s) questions!

Kop Doktar
February 1, 2022 1:19 pm

“Well” gives a number of responses to the Op-Ed, and I will attempt to show how they mislead and grossly fail. ·       — “Just as women aren’t taught smicha because their husbands will know the halachos anyway, bachurim don’t need to be taught how to run a Jewish home—they can rely on their wives’ knowledge.” Even if this were true (which is a separate discussion), the older single or divorced/widower who may spend years living as a baal habos without a spouse, is ill-equipped for life outside the walls of yeshiva.      —  “If you feel “equipped,” then you have nothing to strive for,… Read more »

Figure it out
February 1, 2022 2:31 pm

Every guy coming out of the system will be just fine and they will figure it out like everyone else in the world

Yisroel Taub
February 1, 2022 3:25 pm

Yeshiva isn’t meant to teach you what to do and how to act it’s supposed to make you and what you do a chossid, and when you are a real chossid then you know how a chossid dates and lives the next 70 years
That’s if the system actually made you a real chossid that gives you a chassidishe hergesh and even if you don’t go on shlichus you can still be a chossid because you will do whatever your job is like a chossid and raise you children like real chassidim as well

Yisroel
February 1, 2022 3:26 pm

Yeshiva isn’t meant to teach you what to do and how to act it’s supposed to make you and what you do a chossid, and when you are a real chossid then you know how a chossid dates and lives the next 70 years
That’s if the system actually made you a real chossid that gives you a chassidishe hergesh and even if you don’t go on shlichus you can still be a chossid because you will do whatever your job is like a chossid and raise you children like real chassidim as well

2 things:
February 1, 2022 3:51 pm

Thank you for publishing this article it is a topic that is good to have on the table. 2 There are two very important parts of the solution. 1) it is unrealistic to expect to be “prepared” for life. the definition of life is that till you live it, you wont fully know, when we get knocked over in the process or learn things the hard way, we cant turn around at our history and say “Well, whos fault is this for not preparing me properly” for anyways things that you learn theoretically in Yeshiva or Sem aren’t fully proccessed… Read more »

Simple answer
February 1, 2022 3:56 pm

You can’t teach what you don’t know.

Happy to assist
February 1, 2022 4:10 pm

Thank you for posting your article

please note CHYE was established for this very purpose please visit our site chye.info and reach out to us we would love to work with you to discover your best parnassa options.

Rabbi Yehoshua Werde

There is plenty out there!
February 1, 2022 4:17 pm

YOU GO TO YESHIVAH OR BAIS RIVKAH TO LEARN BASIC YIDDISHKEIT! YOU GROW UP IN A CHASIDISHE HOME AND LEARN HOW TO CONDUCT YOURSELF AND HOW TO RUN YOUR HOME!. STOP LOOKING THROUGH DIRTY WORLD GLASSES ON HOW TO LIVE AT HOME OR HOW TO CONDUCT YOURSELF AT WORK! STOP BLAMING EVERYONE AND IF YOU NEED MORE ASSISTANCE READ ALL THE TORAH AND CHASIDISHE ARTICLES YOU CAN FIND ON CHABAD.ORG OR OTHER KOSHER SIGHTS! ASK PARENTS OF FAMILIES, WHOM YOU WANT TO MODEL, HOW THEY RAISED THEIR CHILDREN! HATZLOCHA!!!!!!!

Finally…
February 1, 2022 4:43 pm

Im glad someone is actually speaking up about such an important issue… learning tanya and going to farbrengens is great, but it should be used as a guidebook to dealing with real life beyond yeshiva and seminary. As a married woman myself, having gone through the “system”, i find it a real shame that my school and sem couldn’t incorporate some applicable classes on things like having a career as a frum woman, navigating through marriage, financial independence, mental and emotional health, maintaining a jewish home etc etc. Rather than just discussing the same topics over and over again like… Read more »

Now what?
February 1, 2022 6:06 pm

You’ve mentioned a real issue.

And all the comments are discussing this real issue.
However, maaseh hu haikar!
You’ve identified a major issue, so now something needs to be done!
And if Hashem benched you with the awareness and understanding of this issue, he certainly provided you with the ability to do something to solve it!

So let a decision be made now – what will Be done to fix this?

High school diploma, college, professional educat
February 1, 2022 6:17 pm

Open Lubavitch College so after zal the bohur can go and provide for a family and only then look for the shiduh.

Ask BaalHabais not to donate to Chabad but to hire Chabad youth

Rachmona litzlan
Reply to  High school diploma, college, professional educat
February 2, 2022 1:50 am

College is not mutar after the chasuna.

Go on shlichus
February 1, 2022 7:19 pm

if you made it thru the system thus far
continue being successful with your life
GO ON SHLICHUS

Yid
February 1, 2022 8:40 pm

Dear author, Mazol tov on the new home. We live in an imperfect creation and that’s why we’re here. Be the change you want to see in the world. You’re a tzelem elokim. You have infinite potential to change the world as you see fit. Start an organization, raise money, organize classes. At some point, a person must come to realize that there is no “system”. Everyone manages on their own until a leader comes and makes more order. Become that leader. If there are other underlying frustrations or a lack of direction, it might be appropriate to see a… Read more »

The Elephant In The Room
February 1, 2022 9:22 pm

Can anyone explain to me:

1) which of these questions should not be directed to one’s “עשה לך רב”?

2) why not?

3) a source from the Rebbe’s Sichois for #2

Otherwise,
Let’s face it! Following the Rebbe’s בקשה נפשית of having an ״עשה לך רב״ would solve the issue, even for someone who went through the worst Yeshivah/Seminary out there!

Vague
February 1, 2022 9:40 pm

Dear Author, Thank you for writing. Apparently you are in good company. Look how many comments there are! I’d like to make a few points: Firstly, I don’t mean to be insensitive, but from the tone of this letter, I’m picking up strong frustration vibes. I understand that you are frustrated about the chinuch issue, but I think you are frustrated about another area in your life. It can be anything (not feeling %100 well, emotionally frustrated, not getting enough sleep, underlying trauma, relationship issue, issue with a parent. Etc.) Some internal honesty may be helpful so that you can… Read more »

Ditto
Reply to  Vague
February 2, 2022 8:03 am

Ditto!

Just to add: and get yourself a Mashpia/Aseh Lchah Rav,

Ok buddy...
February 2, 2022 12:01 am

I got news for you. You are in shana rishona. Stop wasting time. Before you are a dad of 4 kids and have no idea how to make a living. Go figure it out now. You have time. Use it. Get some training or education or experience. If on the way you become a shliach great. But if you happen not too and you didnt use out your time you will be kicking your behind forbeing such a stupid young 23 year old. Then you’ll write a new article “well how come no one told me?”. Guess what buddy, im… Read more »

Living Chassidus org
February 2, 2022 12:48 am

BH Living Chassidus run by Michal Weiss for women has been having classes/farbengens that involve bring Chassidus down to earth, to our daily lives.
Check the link below for more of what they do. They have a life series classes that address things that may have not been taught and more.

https://collive.com/living-chassidus-welcomes-young-women-to-crown-heights/

https://m.youtube.com/c/LivingChassidus

Did I miss something?
February 2, 2022 12:49 am

At the end of the article the author writes “did I miss something?” my answer to that is yes of course you did now your next question might be “what did I miss” to that I’ll say it’s for a diffent discussion if you want to speak to me I’ll be in 749 tommorow at 2 pm

Not exactly
February 8, 2022 11:58 am

I went to yeshiva to learn how to Daven.

My parents taught me about money and I read, usually during breaks, books on business, money and other subjects on my own.

I didn’t rely on the yeshiva system to teach me things that… the teachers there are not experts on. Why did you?

Remedy
September 28, 2022 12:25 pm

I understandable and feel for you. Rest assured, it will be good. Daily Chitas & Rambam, davening with a Minyan, and Tzedaka will illuminate and give brocha to your way. Hashem and the Rebbe are always with you. It is just Hashem and you, One on one. Hashem is infinitely focused on the tiniest issues you have, to the greatest. Look to Him for everything. Before he was Rebbe, he gave a picture of the Frierdiker Rebbe to a male, and said, “Remember, when you look at the Rebbe, he is also looking back at you.” Brocha and hatzlacha!

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