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Tuesday, 21 Heshvan, 5780
  |  November 19, 2019

How Not to ‘Sell’ a Shidduch

From the COLlive inbox: A single Lubavitch woman says the way shidduch offers are described most likely lead to their failure. Full Story

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A suggestion
Guest
A suggestion

It’s all in the delivery, you’re quite right. BUT…. all I see are great ideas in these columns but is anything changing? Has anyone implemented some of thoughtful ideas different people have put forward? What were the outcomes? I think it might be useful to have a feature where readers can say I tried this & that happened, or this is an example of a great guy/girl, just not for me, or the ultimate: I tried some ideas I read on COL & I am a Kallah!! It seems that COL really takes the shidduch crisis seriously (as you should!)… Read more »

AWESOME
Guest
AWESOME

AWESOME

Smart
Guest
Smart

Very perceptive and constructive! Thank you for your positive and thoughtful article. May all the “singalim” be successful in finding their besherts!

you have a really valid point
Guest
you have a really valid point

you’re 100% right. the issue should still be mentioned but not as a selling point with no other virtues of the prospect mentioned

BEAUTIFULL ARTICLE!
Guest
BEAUTIFULL ARTICLE!

Thank you!

Stigma??
Guest
Stigma??

Dont judge a book by its cover, perhaps havenn been waiting around is also a stigma !?(in fact we ALL have stigmas,wer`e just good at hiding them..) where does this idea of stigma`s come from ?? who are we to judge people?lets leave that for the creator of the world!
We believe in Hashgocho Pratis,& if a name comes up ,do look into it,of course make all the necessary inquiries,but leave stigmas out they have no place.

No confidence in Shidduch system
Guest
No confidence in Shidduch system

I am a 22 year old who has Bipolar Disorder. I left yeshiva after just one year, which ended with admission into an acute mental health ward. In the past 3 years I have worked with professionals and I am much better than I ever was. If you were to introduce me to someone as a guy who dropped out of Yeshiva or has Bipolar or worse, had psychosis, self harmed etc. you would likely scare them off. However if you were to meet me now you would only know because I talk about it. It is time to stop… Read more »

Likrat Shiduch Matchmaking Service
Guest
Likrat Shiduch Matchmaking Service

Right on! This is why we have been interviewing prospects in person since our inception with the Rebbe’s Bracha, to be able to add that kind of touch

Everyone
Guest
Everyone

should take your advice!

I detect moshiach in the air
Guest
I detect moshiach in the air

This is Ahavas yisroel, Ahavas rayim at face value. This is a voice of redemption in the chaos, loneliness, and bitterness.Thank you for opening up our eyes to see what is good and what is right. No one is perfect and no situation is perfect.

divorced 31 year old male
Guest
divorced 31 year old male

i’ve been telling people this forever

However
Guest
However

I have only ever suggested ideas to one paricular friend in a very personal way… However upon looking into it, I would get comments from her mother “Did you know his parents were divorced? Is that what you think of us?” and on and on

you are so lucky!
Guest
you are so lucky!

Wow someone actually was honest with you? Maybe blunt but still honest. I wish someone told me that my husband has mental health issues before we were married. It’s been a very hard marriage and even harder now that we have kids and they have to witness his cruel moods and when he needs to be institutionalized. Mental health is not a stigma but are things that will definitely add trauma to an unprepared kalla. Take it from me, from someone who walks on egg shells I wish I was warned instead of getting sold on his smile.

An excellent start!
Guest
An excellent start!

As a corollary, I’d like to point out: Don’t set people up based on their “issues”, either. I came from a divorced home, and was only set up with guys who had lost a parent to death or divorce–which was pretty much all we had in common! The man I married, B”H, was suggested by a friend who looked at ME and MY qualities, rather than my “label” (thanks, Dvori!). Don’t define people by their circumstances!

First article about shidduchim that actually makes sense!
Guest
First article about shidduchim that actually makes sense!

So so true, I am so impressed with the writer.

# 13
Guest
# 13

there is help holistic way,you just need guidance because if you do not know you could get more lost or harmed along the way,contact me ,l will help you [email protected]

Rules and exceptions
Guest
Rules and exceptions

There are SOME things that should be asked right from the get go BEFORE suggesting the name. Let’s try a couple of “extreme” examples: Would you be interested in a guy who isn’t shomer shabbos? You are 28 – would you be interested in a guy who is 58? In such examples you do NOT want to start with saying, “I met this great guy and I think he is your type. I know he would be interested in you. He knows your father from Yeshiva. Oh, I hope you don’t mind that he’s a few years older than your… Read more »

to # 13
Guest
to # 13

As someone who worked as a professional I can tell you that mental health issues must be related.I admire number 7 for being up front.Meds do wonders and as a matter of fact many of my bipolar clients were exceptionally smart and very successful in their careers.Some had a lot of difficulties.But to not share this info is a sin in my book and that includes any illness etc.I’d like to know how do all these singles get a single shaddchan to answer calls or actually remember who you are or even try for you?My kids have zero success to… Read more »

Number 13
Guest
Number 13

Guess what. Your not the only one who went/& has this problem. So many others has that problem or similar. (It all starts from the Shiduch “crises”) & reference was checked properly…..I know some one who went through that problem, & still married, with children. & just going through Tzoros. You just have to live with it…..I know it’s a not normal life. You just have to live through this darkness. Its a sign that Moshiach is coming closer.

Selling 101
Guest
Selling 101

100% . I’ve said that in the past. When I hear someone say something like that (“would you consider someone who’s over weight?” etc etc) I think, would you ever try to sell a car like that?! “Hey, I have a car, the back right window button doesn’t work, it has a small dent on the left side and has lots of miles on it, want to buy it? No, you wouldn’t. You’d say “Hey, I have a car for sale, it rides well, good make, etc etc and of course you can be straight about the other details as… Read more »

yes!
Guest
yes!

I’ve been saying this for years

cummon
Guest
cummon

Of course this article was good because it was common sense. Is THIS really the shidduch issue?? Of course not! Granted, we have some fools but most people don’t present options in this ridiculous manner. This article was a mentchlech/common sense point, not a shidduchim point.

What did the Rebbe say?
Guest
What did the Rebbe say?

Didn’t the Rebbe write, that in the case of two, who
suffer from depression or share the same medical problems – “doctors warn about such marriages.”

This seems to leave room for matches where, the two can have issues, as long as they are not the same issues. For example, I know of a couple where she is mentally bright, but he is, a little bit, the opposite. However, she has an obvious physical challenge.

disagree
Guest
disagree

but why should a regular girl settle with a guy that comes from a bad background.

stigma?
Guest
stigma?

being baal tshua is a stigma? CHOOSING hashem, is a stigma? OY VEY.

"Baal teshuva"
Guest
"Baal teshuva"

I think it’s time to stop looking down to ppl just BC they are Baal teshuva, or “bt”. Just because he didn’t grow up religious he is any worse, any lower? He might be more frum, more chassidish, more mentshlich, nicer, more honest, lass arrogant, more emesdik, more caring for others, than many ” ffb” out there. And generally, that’s the case. So why is he lower class? Why is that a defect? Chabad mont pnimius. Start looking at ppls pnimius and not their last names, their pronunciation on how they read hebrew, or where he was 10 years ago.… Read more »

This is what dating SHOULD look like!!
Guest
This is what dating SHOULD look like!!

We need more “Dini’s” in the Shidduch Scene… Trust me – so many more potential marriages will come to fruition with this type of attitude. Thank you Dini for giving me so much more hope! I really appreciate it!

Bravo #17
Guest
Bravo #17

Here comes another article that solves all the problems. Next we will read the solution to achieve world peace. I like how #7 gently pointed out that life is more complex than simplified “one-liner” one one-dimensional quick fixes.

Now I will write the article about achieving world peace: “All You Need Is Love”…

to 27
Guest
to 27

“why is that a defect?” you asked.. because they are TOO GOOD! and the same applies to ben/bas baal teshuva too. It shows how the ffb should REALLY BE and they know they are perfectly not! WE are considered 2nd class while ffb is the top, when its really the opposite and the ffb are perfectly aware of this.

Bt married to ffb
Guest
Bt married to ffb

I will answer the question. People are often a product of their experiences. In marriage it is important to have similar backgrounds. It is challenging for my spouse to have inlaws who drive on shabbas and eat unkosher food and dress untzniusly. It is challenging for me to not be able to share many aspects of my past that made me who I am. It is possible to do. But when two families are different there are many extra challenges that need to be brought into consideration.

correction
Guest
correction

29 was meant for 26

#26
Guest
#26

“Just because he didn’t grow up religious he is any worse, any lower? He might be more frum, more chassidish, more mentshlich, nicer, more honest, lass arrogant, more emesdik, more caring for others, than many ” ffb” out there. And generally, that’s the case. So why is he lower class? Why is that a defect? Chabad mont pnimius” For one thing, the BTs are the ones who reject their own and desperately try to get a FFB. They themselves stigmatize themselves by showing that they are lacking. Secondly, true that chassidus mont pnimiyus, but that does not mean that chitzoniyus… Read more »

#32 the defect of the bt, is actually a strength
Guest
#32 the defect of the bt, is actually a strength

A Bt becoming frum shows a strength which an ffb will never have.there is no defect, every thing is good.

to 32
Guest
to 32

Wrong! bt will only look for bt. if bt looks for ffb then the bt has faults. also dont judge a person till u stand in there place and a bt is higher then a tzaddik! second point: how come some ffb will ONLY look for bt? and will get highly INSULTED BEING REFUSED BY BT?! for the same reason ffb will look for bt, bt will NOT want to marry ffb and the ffb should NOT GET HIGHLY INSULTED!

34 - wrong
Guest
34 - wrong

bt will look for best woman he can marry like any other human being. if ffb happens to be good candidate, why not? I hope the ffbs can wake up being they are too old to have children …

#33
Guest
#33

Just like a former alcoholic shows strength by over coming his alcoholism, this is a strength over those who never had an alcohol problem, but remains a fact that he was/is an alcoholic and must for life be aware of his problem with alcohol.

.

I agree with #17 and #32
Guest
I agree with #17 and #32

Wise words No simple answer. No generalities. A shaddchan isn’t a used car salesman trying to sell a lemon to an unsuspecting buyer. Honesty. Integrity. Compassion. Not a sales job to get the commission! #17 said it like it is. Just as #32 said it.

FYI
Guest
FYI

our sages say “Where Baalei Tshuva stand, not even the tzaddikim cannot stand”.

(perek zayin tanya)

Beauty, Wealth, Yichus
Guest
Beauty, Wealth, Yichus

On Tu B’Av the girls would promote themselves for a shidduh. The pretty ones would tell the boys to seek out beauty. The wealthy would promote the advantage of rich girls. Those who had yichus would implore the advantage of yichus and family. Each would take their advantage and use it to “sell themselves” on the shidduch market. Is beauty, wealth or yichus a REAL advantage? Certainly! Conversely, the lack of these advantages is a defect. Is looks, riches or family THE reason to marry a spouse? Of course not, but it is a CONSIDERATION and part of the equation.… Read more »

Excuse me??
Guest
Excuse me??

To say that the person doesn’t even sound human?? A Bal Teshuvah who can’t even talk to his parents can be an unbelievable person who is giving up more for what he thinks is true then any other other person out there, it need not be a stigma it is a sure sign of virtue and strong principals. Someone who is divorced can be incredibly determined to work on a marriage and be expetionally life smart with experience why the need to stigmatize? Mental issues? Why condone stigma to a common issue that can easily be taken care of? People… Read more »

Finding out more information
Guest
Finding out more information

I alway thought a shadchan is someone who looks into both plp and considers if they might match. Today I’m shocked to be asked to pay 1000 dolars to get a name and go do your homework answer, plus pay a few hundred to anyone who says yes he’s a nice bocher…

one ugly truth came out, other realities are still ignored
Guest
one ugly truth came out, other realities are still ignored

the hatred spewed in the comments reveals that the chabad “ffb” community has not come to accept neither the tanya from 200+ years ago nor the 50+ years of baal teshuvah movement initiated by none other than the rebbe zt”l himself. as of this posting, there were 40 comments before mine. the vast majority proves “logically” that being a baal teshuva is a defect. just like being born without major looks, or to a family that (like the majority of jews) has no illustrious yichus, or through no fault of the person (who most likely has been in school until… Read more »

Bingo
Guest
Bingo

All that matters is whether the person has a sense of humor. It don’t matter if he or she is a bt, ger, bi-polar, chabad-lite, short, fat or ugly (with a stutter and a hunch back). All that really matters is having a sense of humor. So shaddchan, NEVER ever say up front, “Would you consider someone that lacks a sense of humor?” – that is the one thing that must never be mentioned till after the sale is made. (For those who do not appreciate satire – you shouldn’t be reading this, in fact close down the computer before… Read more »

A Balas Tshuva Responds
Guest
A Balas Tshuva Responds

When I committed to being frum, I sacrificed my family and relatives. It was hard and lonely. Now that I am ready for marriage, I want a family and relatives to adopt me as their daughter (in-law). I want a FFB who has frum parents that will appreciate me. I struggled many years without family and I earned this right. Do not deny me the right to a FFB just because I am a Balas Tshuva. I sacrificed but why shouldn’t my children have at least one set of frum grandparents? I worked hard to be part of the frum… Read more »

older and single
Guest
older and single

The author sounds mature to me.as myself being single and older (and Bt for the record), I feel it is important to marry a quality person, which seemingly should go without saying. We are not really that big of a group of people, over age 35 and single. It is really too small of a group to make generalizations about. I never really got too many dates living here in crown heights. I am aware of about 5 women I perceive to be high quality, but ffb, whom will not meet me in a shidduch.

To all those who comment about BTs vs. FFBs
Guest
To all those who comment about BTs vs. FFBs

As a BT marrying off my own children, I didn’t worry about it. It’s a self-selecting process. Those who are focused on the chitzoniyus, and don’t appreciate the values our family brings, really DO have different values from us, and really would NOT be a good fit. If an FFB family DOES appreciate the chayus and ehrlichkeit that a baal teshuva (or child of) can bring to the marriage , ( to the extent that the other issues are less important.), these are the ones we wanted anyway.

The BT/FFB situation
Guest
The BT/FFB situation

An FFB Bochur. Shidduch age: I spent a few years working with Baalei Teshuva, both as a shliach in Mayanot and while doing Semicha in Morristown I hung around Tiferes. I have the utmost respect for them and their sacrifice and appreciate their sincerity and chayus. Yet, shidduchim is a different matter. When you marry someone, you want them to have the same background as you. Someone who had a similar upbringing to yours so you can properly relate to that person. I Ch”v don’t think that being a Baal Teshuva is a defect and I condemn all those who… Read more »

Thank you
Guest
Thank you

Firstly, I think this was a well thought out, well written article, making a lot of sense.
And I would like to acknowledge and thank some of the comments that made much sense: #30, #38, #46, #47,

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