ב"ה
Sunday, 21 Tishri, 5780
  |  October 20, 2019

Get Refusal is Domestic Abuse

Shlucha Layah Lipsker, who is active with the Boston Bet Din, says Get Refusal must be treated as a domestic abuse issue. Full Story

Simi Weinhause, 61, OBM

Next Story »

Fire Rules For Your Family’s Safety

108
Opinions and Comments

To keep track of your comments, follow a conversation or flag a comment Login
avatar
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
where are you Aliza?
Guest
where are you Aliza?

Aliza why dont you tell them your intentions? You did not tell them not to do everything in their power to seek that get you just told them how to focus if it doesn’t happen chas vsholom- you did write to do everything in their power to receive that get! how come they r misinterpreting what you wrote from the heart!! why don’t u explain yourself after these negative comments towards your article.am i the only smart one that understood it?

Thank you
Guest
Thank you

Thank you for this important article

A breath of fresh air.
Guest
A breath of fresh air.

Thanks Layah for bringing the truth to the surface.We need people with the passion like your father…Real people.
Thanks for sharing and shedding some light unto this plague of darkness blinding our community.

Yasher Koach
Guest
Yasher Koach

Leah I applaud your work — I think we also need to recognize the many women in our community who don’t get as far as the opportunity of a get because the rabbonim don’t take them seriously. In particular, the women who don’t have physical bruises to show for their abuse and thus are dismissed by rabbonim. The scars on the heart and the psyche count just as much. It’s a chillul Hashem and chillul sheim Lubavitch that brave women are being told to go home to their tormentors. Some, like me, were actually laughed at to our faces. For… Read more »

Yehudis Smith
Guest
Yehudis Smith

THANK YOU. Great article. Thank you for paving the way for a real conversation about what we can do to eradicate the Agunah crisis.

BH AND WOW !!! ( ALL CAPS )
Guest
BH AND WOW !!! ( ALL CAPS )

The march was just a few short days ago and here we have a very dignified article by a very qualified and compassionate Shlucha heightening awareness of these tragic issues. Again, only those who have – rachmonis – suffered from, been a witness to, or taken the time to really educate themselves about domestic violence / Gett refusal should be involved in these matters. If our local Bais Din is not up to honestly educating themselves then perhaps the Boston Bais Din – which seems more willing / able to be true communal leaders, will agree to be helpful to… Read more »

GO LAYAH!!!
Guest
GO LAYAH!!!

Thank you for this article!! Right on point! I hope everyone reads it and WE ALL ask ourselves what EACH OF US can do to help!
Chava Bolotin

Thank You
Guest
Thank You

Thank you for taking part in raising awareness for this very serious issue in a well balanced and respectful way.

Trail Blazer.....
Guest
Trail Blazer.....

What a well rounded well spoken response..
I hope all those paying attention read and take to heart what Rebbetzen Lipsker has so eloquently written
Yasher Koach gadol !!

WOW...like father like daughter
Guest
WOW...like father like daughter

What an amazing job Rebbetzin.Lipsker, the daughter of the Virginia shliach Rabbi Yankel Kranz o’h is doing for agunot. I hope her message will spread across every Chabad House until refusing a get is tantamount to abusing your husband and wife in courts of law.

Keep up the good work.

A fond admirer

Excellent!
Guest
Excellent!

Thank you! We must continue to educate the public!
And thank you for what you do!

Sholom Green
Guest
Sholom Green

Mrs Lipsker is correct, there can not be any excuse for refusal to give a Gett and you the refusal to accept a Gett.

Layah for President!
Guest
Layah for President!

There should be more people like you around. Good luck in all you do and thank you for your work and commitment

Srul Zalman Chaim
Guest
Srul Zalman Chaim

We all heard the story of the boy that screamed wolf and everyone came and tried to help, only to realize that it was a joke, then when the wolf really came nobody came to help him. This campaign to help Agunos unfortunately was started here in CrownHeights by a bias group against one person. The job of organizations is to make sure they rally up the community to help REAL AGUNOS!!! People are being manipulated….. And now won’t have the patience to get involved where they are really needed. After a man is Mesuraev Ldin, and the Batay din… Read more »

thank u thank you thank you
Guest
thank u thank you thank you

I see a light at the end of the tunnel in this community

with Pesach approaching...
Guest
with Pesach approaching...

With Pesach approaching Agunas, or any single mothers for that matter need money, plain cash for all their needs. The Get is very important but more urgently is food on the table and clothing to wear for themselves and their kids. The Get can be dealt with again after Pesach.
I heard in a shiur divorced women (or long time Agunas for that matter) are considered equal to Almanahs (as far as tzedakah is concerned)

Well said!
Guest
Well said!

Everything I wanted to say, but saved me from typing it!

Why do you think the rabbis dont know about the prenup they feel its to ify
Guest
Why do you think the rabbis dont know about the prenup they feel its to ify

By Horav Yosef Yeshaya Braun, shlita, member of the Badatz of Crown Heights. #249 Prenuptial Agreements There is a discussion amongst contemporary poskim regarding prenuptial agreements. Sometimes a husband and wife have irreconcilable differences, which unfortunately lead to divorce. Numerous solutions have been proposed over the generations to address the agunah scenario that occurs when a recalcitrant husband declines to give his wife a get voluntarily. According to Jewish law, a divorce is valid only if the husband places a get in his wife’s hands of his own free will. In the past the term agunah was used to describe… Read more »

to #1
Guest
to #1

I agree with everything Aliza wrote, shes on the ball. She does NOT need to explain anything. She wrote very clear. The haters see what they want, no amount of explaining will do. I’ll go as far as to say that many didn’t even bother reading from start to finish and just responded emotionally. The reason they are afraid of Aliza article is that in-order for the leaders of this “sister-hood” to raise to power they need “victim-hood”, in other words, they need useful idiots. Aliza is stealing this victim-hood away from them and thus she is a threat that… Read more »

Nice job Layah
Guest
Nice job Layah

Thank you for your articulate and compassionate article. We need more voices like yours to speak out on behalf of all those suffering from abuse in our community. The Rebbe would be proud.

Sholom Green
Guest
Sholom Green

We need Chabad Botei Din including the one in Crown Heights to make a clear statement to the issue of pre-nuptuals.

like father like daughter
Guest
like father like daughter

a real tribute to both rabbi yankel kranz of blessed memory and his daughter layah lipsker of swampscott!! get your get is a great name no matter who thought of it first….

Keep shining, Layah
Guest
Keep shining, Layah

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.Keep speaking truth.

Finally
Guest
Finally

The tide is turning

The message is GETTing through
Guest
The message is GETTing through

Thank you Rebetzin Lipsker for the uplifting and encouraging words. There is hope after all!

REAL agunah
Guest
REAL agunah

Kinda like saying Rubashkin isn’t real Pidyon Shevuim case.
Or saying emotional abuse isn’t real abuse.
Or saying today’s civil courts aren’t real Arkaos.

Chanie Cohen
Guest
Chanie Cohen

At long lost there is a voice of reason being represented here on this forum. For all of those who were screaming about the silence of our community you should know this: we have incredible women who are working tirelessly (without megaphones!) to help individuals who need to move along with their life. I was in this situation for four long years; and then I met Bronya Shaffer who helped me to get to the right people for the right solutions. I’m saying this in response to all those who criticize our community for not being ‘active’ or ‘educated’ –… Read more »

I wish this was a solution
Guest
I wish this was a solution

It would be nice if the Halachic prenup was a real solution. However it just simply isn’t. Because according to some of the greatest Poskim (such as Harav Eliyashiv) a Get given because of a prenup, is invalid!
Meaning: a women who received a get because of a prenup and then got remarried, would bring children into this world who are possibly mamzeirim!
This position is the one accepted by most Chareidy Poskim, and is the position that the CH BD maintains.
Halacha is not something we can just “change”. That is not how Torah works. Period.

Thumbs up!
Guest
Thumbs up!

Thank you for bringing clarity to this issue which some have been clouding with negativity. This is not an issue to hide from, nor should it become political! It is a halachic issue that is very straight forward. Hatzlachah with your work to help these women. I pray that the rabbonim in Crown Heights begin to take a more active and positive role in this area.

Thank you Layah Lipsker! Keep up your work!
Guest
Thank you Layah Lipsker! Keep up your work!

THANK YOU!!! IN CAPS!! You’re wonderful and you should continue your work. Proud to call you my sister in that you’re doing work, I wish I could be doing, and fighting for a cause I feel for within the depths of my soul and heart.

Women don’t turn their back on women. Please continue speading your word!

Good article - misinterpreted Aliza
Guest
Good article - misinterpreted Aliza

Sorry, but both this article and the one by Yehudis Smith have completely misinterpreted the article by Aliza. As a complete neutral observer, it is quite clear that you have not understood the positive intent and content of the original op eds. Try rereading it.

What about halacha?
Guest
What about halacha?

There is something that I do not understand. When there is a Jewish divorce, if the couple went by strict halacha rather than the secular courts, wouldn’t that basically mean that the husband gets everything, including the kids and the wife just gets whatever support is due her according to the agreement in the kesuba? YET, women seek halachic gittin yet seek justice for everything else in the secular courts, which give them property and custody that they would not otherwise be entitled to under halacha, yet they still want a halachic get. Don’t get me wrong, I think they… Read more »

Response to #1
Guest
Response to #1

I agree – I’m still puzzling over where people picked up the “accept your faith attitude” in Aliza’s article. All I read was empowering words, strengthening women. If a husband wishes to hurt a woman, why should she allow it to happen by becoming a victim? Written like a therapist, Aliza. Kol hakavod.
However, each person is entitled to their opinion. There is no reason to put each other down. Perhaps that’s why Aliza is not responding. I admire that.

Wow
Guest
Wow

Can we get a psak or will we just go back and forth with the op-eds…

You're awesome.
Guest
You're awesome.

For getting involved and for writing this.

AGREE WITH NUMBER 1 TOO
Guest
AGREE WITH NUMBER 1 TOO

aliza did not say anything that contradicts anything any of the responses said back to her.

why is it that the sadder one is the more we want her to stay that way??

dont you all realize that one needs to feel like a human being eventhough they are unfortunately chained beyond their control?
your attitudes of “you are the biggest victim ever and should never be happy” is really not helping her….

What about men suffering?
Guest
What about men suffering?

Why don’t anybody talk about the women who do not want to let their husbands ( fathers of their children) talk to their children and torture them for years.
where is the voices of the men who are suffering from abuse from cruel women, who want to suck every penny of their husbands. Not every woman is so innocent as you think. They like to put themselves in this situations.
I am very disappointed in Colive.

Kol hakavod
Guest
Kol hakavod

Hashem should bless you in your important work.

To the pro-Aliza commenters
Guest
To the pro-Aliza commenters

Aliza was wrong in insisting that agunahs are all sitting around wallowing in victim-hood. They are not! They are carrying on with their lives but they still need to work on being freed!

snowbird
Guest
snowbird

Thank you for this wonderful article.
This is a Jewish issue that needs to be addressed.

Thank you Layah Lipskier
Guest
Thank you Layah Lipskier

For being a clear voice of reason.

#18
Guest
#18

Thank you
your article is a complement to this op-ed and is truly well written

Gittin:
Guest
Gittin:

A Kesuba is enforceable in secular court as a “prenup”. It allots 200 zekukim kesef [a monetary value] to a woman upon divorce. All other assets remain in the domain of the husband. Custody of children goes to the mother until a child is eight years old at which point custody transfers to the father ‘kidos Moshe viYisroel’. This is the legally enforceable agreement made at the time of marriage. A woman who seeks to use the courts to rob her husband is a mosser and subject to killing according to Halacha even today, and any property (freedom) in the… Read more »

Get the facts straight
Guest
Get the facts straight

I’ve been waiting for this comment, but noone seems to have written it so I will. The notion that a woman being a refused a get is not an agunah is complete am ha’aratzus! Look at the Gemara in Gittin, 33a and you’ll see clearly that an agunah is a woman who is unable to get a divorce for WHATEVER REASON. The Gemara is discussing why raban gamliel made a takanah that men cannot annull their gittin once they send them unless the woman or shliach is present. One of the reasons given is “TO HELP AGUNOS.” Rashi and others… Read more »

What is with the "oppressed" men around here?
Guest
What is with the "oppressed" men around here?

If you men think that, although the bottom line is that men have a solution and woman don’t, you are also being jipped then by all means – join this plea for a solution. A unified decision and process set forth by a stable collective Crown Heights Bais Din would solve everyone’s problem: men, women and most of all – the children who, through no fault of their own, have to go through this torture !!! If this issue was given due attention by Rabbonim and the people would actually listen, the Gett/Divorce process may actually possibly one day become… Read more »

Think before you (talk) type: Have I walked their shoes?
Guest
Think before you (talk) type: Have I walked their shoes?

That’s it.

no. 44
Guest
no. 44

i imagine aguna cannot be used when the wife is at fault for husband not giving the get , e.g.. he is denied to see his own children or is demanded a crazy unaffordable amount of money. If she is at fault why would she be called aguna- she can easily unchain herself.

Appreciate
Guest
Appreciate

Rabbi’s insight and agree “Take your megaphones and find another neighborhood who are looking for noise!”
Much work to be done and empty vessels make most…….
they are not contributing to our healing!

To #44
Guest
To #44

Let me stop you there for a moment. How exactly do you define “refused”? Sure, a woman whose husband REFUSES to give a Get is an Aguna, that much we know. But what exactly is “refusal”? Let me help you with this one. “Refusal” is when a husband says he is absolutely not going to give a Get. THAT is refusal. If a man comes home from work one day and his wife says “give me a Get”, and the husband says “Honey, let’s discuss this please first, maybe we can talk to a Rav or a therapist and save… Read more »

anonymous
Guest
anonymous

BS”D
not to distract from the seriousness of this issue but why never a word about the abused men who are dragged to court by their recalcitrant wives who refuse to go to Beth Din and some have even been held in contempt by the Beth Din- Mesurevis

Halachik Pre Nups
Guest
Halachik Pre Nups

The Halachik Pre Nups has the endorsements of Harav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg, Harav Osher Weiss and others! They are the leading Rabbonim in the Chareidi/Frum world.

Correct!!!
Guest
Correct!!!

There is a serious problem we must find a solution.

Unfoertunetely the prenuptial agreement is a bad solution.

Most Chareidi rabbis agree that it is not a get , this is 95% of the charedi world.

Zalmen nechemya changed his mind about this and never permitted it.

The Tzemach Tzedek does not permit it.

I really don’t understand how a charedi person would actually sign this thing!!!???

This is not fixing the problem it is reffering it to a much bigger problem.

“No deal is better than a bad deal”!

Former student of your father,
Guest
Former student of your father,

Your father Rabbi Kranz,OBM,was one of the first Chabad Rabbis I met. Together with the Rivkins of New Orleans, he ran the Chabad House at San Diego State. As a person who has had a civil divorce for over 13years your words are a comfort to me. There is no question that refusing to give a Gett is a continuation of the abuse that my children and I lived through. Layah thank you for your words and actions. They mean alot.We need to know that others can understand what we are going through.
Thank you Layah.

Increase in Acts of Goodness and Kindness
Guest
Increase in Acts of Goodness and Kindness

Number 1 person is to your spouse.

We need more love.
We need to be kinder to each other.
We need to talk softly to each other.
We need to be good to each other.
We need to care for each other.

We need more love.

to 51
Guest
to 51

you obviously don’t know much about the chareidy world. the names mentioned (who are indeed big talmidei chachomim) are not the leading poskim in the chareidy world.
Rabbi Eliyashiv – the true leading posek of the chareidy world, was very against it.
RZN is known to have an open door, and when people tell him half facts he OK’s it. it has happened many times that he has publicly retracted (in writing) things he had said previously – because he was misinformed on the facts.

Rabbi Shlomo Yaffee
Guest
Rabbi Shlomo Yaffee

Wrote a clear Halachik article on this topic. It should be published. Actually Rabbi Yaffee should probably be nominated as a CH Rov

what about when a woman wants to cut off custody for her husband
Guest
what about when a woman wants to cut off custody for her husband

things are not always so simple
the man needs to be protected too
there are many women out there who act very viciously

Thank you layah!!!
Guest
Thank you layah!!!

Leah I applaud your work, you’ve always been an activist who is educated and does her research, I truly respect what you are doing!!!

Seriously
Guest
Seriously

Are we going to advocate and decide serious and complex issues by internet (exactly what the Rebbe wrote against in that letter – that everyone who doesn’t know the intricate halachos – let alone fame seeking rabbis – as opposed to “rabbonim” – who speak against clear Shulchan Aruch, will say their “deah)? Anyone with a heart knows how a cookie cutter approach is dangerous. Mrs. Lipsker, with all due respect and assuming that you have the best of intentions, not making sure to do everything to save a marriage, absent provable danger, is a travesty to both parties and… Read more »

Great Dane
Guest
Great Dane

When will someone come out against women who falsely claim child abuse against their husbands?

Amazing!!!
Guest
Amazing!!!

Great article!!! Feels like the tides are turning and people are slowly waking up to the sad facts. This is a major issue in our community and I respect you for speaking up so beaitifully about it. The all those supporting “Alizas” article, yoy must be joking. I cant for the life of me understand how you can be serious….

not necessarily motivated by desire to abuse
Guest
not necessarily motivated by desire to abuse

The premise of this article, which is that get refusal is always motivated by malicious intent, is deeply flawed. Here is another perspective: https://www.scribd.com/doc/256755739/Fair-Terms-for-Divorce-A-Halachic-Right

Defensive measure?
Guest
Defensive measure?

While I am still very hazy about prenup, I was always bothered by the implications. The couple seems to be entering the marriage defensively, as if each partner secretly has one foot out the door. Marriage should be built on trust. Divorce, while permitted, should be regarded as a last resort, not the “easy way out.” I would want to enter a marriage fully committed to making it work. Of course, often it just doesn’t, in spite of the efforts, so I do not dismiss the agunah situation lightly. While no one deserves abuse, perhaps these situations might be avoided… Read more »

Great Article
Guest
Great Article

But where are these compassionate Rabbonim you speak of? Not in NY, I can tell you that! The Batei Din here drey the woman a kop until they are at their wits end. They aid and abet the Get refusers. I know several women who said “to heck with Rabbanim who shlep and delay my get in favor of the man. I give up on frumkeit” and the responsible parties are the Rabbonim who did not expedite the get, and in some cases let the situation drag on for years. These are actual facts. Maybe the compassionate Boston Rabbonim can… Read more »

Menachem Roetter
Guest
Menachem Roetter

Thank you rebbetzen lipsker. I spoke at the march on behalf of my mother, a 13 year agunah. She just informed me that ur father obm was one of the people who made her frum!
And now her son, me, is making ur father’s vision a reality.
As we speak, car magnets are being printed for this cause (different wording and not a sticker, but close enough)
Thank you

Both the husband and wife are holy Jews who are suffering
Guest
Both the husband and wife are holy Jews who are suffering

And both Layah and Aliza make valid points. Yes, if we humbly accept Hashem’s decrees we can decrease our own personal suffering, but also yes, we need to take whatever reasonable action is within our power to change our reality. Why does everyone feel they have to passionately take sides? Why do we seem to be incapable of empathising with both the woman who is feeling powerless and the man whose whole life has been shattered before his eyes, not to mention the poor children who are getting hurt from all sides. Please, I beg you, my brothers and sisters,… Read more »

Who is welcoming these women to their sedarim??
Guest
Who is welcoming these women to their sedarim??

This article is eloquent & on target. And here is a woman actually doing something to help, not telling them to “get over it” or screaming like lunatics in the street. But I ask: how many of you who shout and pontificate are practically showing your support? Where I live I am not aware of any agunot but there are many single moms whose ex husbands are deadbeat dads. How many have YOU invited for Pesach? We are having a childless almonah, plus I invited 2 single moms and their kids (one family accepted, the other said her kids want… Read more »

no support from the BD
Guest
no support from the BD

I’m living with a man who refuses to agree to a divorce and Get despite recommendations from the BD. He is financially and emotionally abusive and has crossed many boundaries. I’m under the impression that the BD support the men only and cannot judge a case on merit and choose not to get involved. Women are marginalised and neglected. One follows all the right halachic directives and gets no where. Good luck Rebbetzin Layah. I’ve already given up. ..

TO COLLIVE - perhaps this will enlighten  #37 and those that question abused women....
Guest
TO COLLIVE - perhaps this will enlighten #37 and those that question abused women....

Maybe this comment should be printed as an article so that the terrible shfichus damim stops and to avoid further tragedy R”L. Maybe Layah Lipsker – through her work and insight, knows how and where – (no matter the attempted pretense by any abusers) this continues to break so many hearts. Behind closed doors, while the abused woman is living with the abuser, she is often so terrorized, frightened, and so deeply ashamed. She is actually manipulated by the abuser into this terrible shame and fear. He threatens that she will suffer worse than she can ever imagine if she… Read more »

Go leah
Guest
Go leah

So amazing!!!!

CH Resident
Guest
CH Resident

I agree with #1 and #19. Aliza was very clear. Continue to have goals and dreams and ambitions – beyond rushing under the next chuppah. Live your LIFE. Do what can and must be done, in a dignified manner, to obtain the get, but don’t let that one goal define you.

To precious #69
Guest
To precious #69

I’ve been there, Every awful word is true. Moshiach Now.

Very Proud of Leah Lipsker
Guest
Very Proud of Leah Lipsker

Thank you Leah for this article and for all of your Holy work that you are doing for Am Yisrael!!!

To 63
Guest
To 63

The prenup merely enforced the Kesuba. Ideally the kesubah should stand alone but in the real world it is not enforced. The kesuba itself might imply divorce so are we going to stop signing them?

Beautiful
Guest
Beautiful

we need more people like Laya.
And I agree that there are men that get hurt in get and divorce battles and wonder what could be done to help them also.
(I am a woman)

PS for #69
Guest
PS for #69

And then, when this broken woman finally summons up the courage to go to her husband’s Mashpia, or to a local Rav, to seek help she is further abused by their lack of interest, compassion, or just plain disbelief. And so begins another round of shecker. But one thing I can tell you – no matter how hard you try, the kids do see everything and hear everything and when they are old enough and strong enough, they know EXACTLY what their father is, as does the One Above.

to no 69
Guest
to no 69

no one is indeed denying that there is no abuse or that anyone should live with her abuse in silence!! stop thinking that there are people who feel the abused are not being cared about even if they are against the march. it is just the approach and the generalization here that was taken out of context. No Jew should suffer!!!! Every single reader/comentator here agree to that! No one should suffer or accept abuse- no two ways about it!!! I hear in bais din Montreal they are really on top of the situation when the guy doesn’t want to… Read more »

Dear #69
Guest
Dear #69

Your comment was so enlightening, so true, so heartfelt. I agree it needs to be its own article. You explain so clearly why women choose to stay with dysfunctional men–whether abusive or just reckless and irresponsible. We feel trapped either way in a situation not our choosing, and foremost in our minds is the desire to give our children the best childhood possible. Forget “normal”–there is no normal for us, now or ever, but at least we try to salvage whatever hope and dignity we have left. And after all that, all we get is the scorn and abuse of… Read more »

prenup
Guest
prenup

to number 18: If money, forces the recalcitrant husband so much so that the gett giving is not considered ‘willingly’, then how could batei dinim beat him until he says rotzeh ani? well doesnt the rambam answer that..that deep down every jew wants to do the right thing. So, can someone answer this question? why would money commitment be considered forcing but beating him up is ok? As for going into marriage on a defense, if both people want the best for their new spouse, they’ll sign it. meaning “even if down the road we will split apart and I… Read more »

The prenup is also a test
Guest
The prenup is also a test

Abusers won’t sign prenups. They want the power and control. That can be a red flag right there.

Mental illness
Guest
Mental illness

I believe that in a frum marraige, for it to get to divorce, there is most likely a high rate of mental illness. I speak from experience as a woman in the midst of going through a secular divorce. BH the court system has protocols for custody evaluations and such. Any man who will deny his wife a Get, must have personality disorders, which are a serious illness.

Work it Out
Guest
Work it Out

People who keep saying the rabbonim are right to tell the couple to work it out – of course people want to work it out! But when there is no other option, the rabbonim must recognize that and not send women back to abusive spouses! The step of actually going to the BD is not taken lightly and the rabbonim must learn to recognize and acknowledge domestic abuse, severe addictions and more.

Rabbi Shlomo Yaffe endorsed prenup to Shluchim
Guest
Rabbi Shlomo Yaffe endorsed prenup to Shluchim

I was at a gathering of Campus Shluchim and Rabbi Shlomo Yaffe said absolutely that campus Shluchim who are officiating at weddings should use the prenup. This is especially important because the Shluchim are making sure people have a kosher wedding and if they don’t get a Get then there will be mamzerus for sure. So…to all the posters who claim that there are no Lubavitcher Rabbonim who are for the prenup – speak to Rabbi Yaffe.

Prenup
Guest
Prenup

Yes, there is often injustice done to/by both sides, but it seems to more often, be directed to the wife. This just levels the playing field, and adds transparency to both sides, so neither can hide behind it. And to all those who cry, that this is a form of coercion, and that it then invalidates the get, please pray tell, educate me, as to how this is any different than the physically violent tactics used by the most charedi, since time immemorial, to achieve consent? Talk about inconsistency… If the “beating up thing” is illegal and unenforceable (it’s also… Read more »

Even Rabbonim against it will end up accepting it
Guest
Even Rabbonim against it will end up accepting it

Let’s get real. If a portion of the frum world (esp. MO) are using this prenup, then there is no way that Rabbonim even further on the right, are going to say that a get that was given when a couple had a prenup is invalid. Can you imagine the craziness that would cause? So practically speaking what is going to happen is that Lechatchila there are Rabbonim who will think it’s a problem, but B’dieved, all the gittin that are due to the prenup will end up being fine.

answer to  #67
Guest
answer to #67

Mrs. Bronya Shaffer conducts sedarim for women. If you know a single woman who would enjoy the experience of a seder with other single women you should contact her.

to 69
Guest
to 69

very very sad to hear the plight of this woman. the sad reality is that after a divorce, until the children are independant you are still connected with your “x” and there is still misery continuing. i hope she can get therapy to feel stronger and less affected from his abuse. the happier side though is that time flies quicker then we think, and in no time will the kids be independant and then there wont be anything holding her back from leaving the marriage. yes he might not give her a get but what are her choices- to stay… Read more »

Citizen Berel
Guest
Citizen Berel

Are you aware that the pre-nuptual arrangement is extraordinarly contentious? Does that make any difference or have any bearing on your advocating a particular stance on it as ‘co-director of Chabad Lubavitch of the North Shore in Swampscott, MA’. We have a vaad rabonnai lubavitch. Would your efforts not be better spent engaging them and advocating they take a public stance on the issue? Or is advocating your halachic position in an on-line op-ed the way this type of issue really should be handled? This is big issue and it’s getting bigger since the devorce rate is sadly rising, so… Read more »

any man...
Guest
any man...

any man refusing a get or refusing child support shows a history of control and abuse

to 43, you sound like a closed off abuser yourself
Guest
to 43, you sound like a closed off abuser yourself

That’s not what Rabbi Braun said regarding custody.

a) The children go to the parents that will give them the best education and beis din takes into consideration the best interests of the child.

b) support is according to the amount of the kids, the amount the husband makes, and their standard of living prior to the divorce, not 200 zekukim.

c) then there’s the value of the kesuba which in todays age is $5000

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT - Aliza
Guest
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT - Aliza

The main reason I didn’t answer until now, is because I just now became aware of this article. It already has 88 comments. I want to thank the people, who understood what I wrote, for speaking up. I am sorry that this article misrepresents what I wrote. I suppose I could write the website and ask them post a correction. But I can also do that after Pesach. I used CAPS to get attention. Not to intimidate. CAPS can be used for many things depending on the setting and the message. Especially on FaceBook there has been a bullying campaign… Read more »

The Truth of Disagreeing With Me - Aliza
Guest
The Truth of Disagreeing With Me - Aliza

After leaving my comment of THANKS, I went to another website to see if they also posted this article. I went back to my article and found a great comment. I hope collive doesn’t mind posting something I found elsewhere. Here it is: Since so many disagree with Aliza, I’ve taken the time to state the opposite of what she has written. Women who have not received their gett: • Have no choices. • They should define their entire existence by this circumstance • She should not work to support herself with dignity, only beg for Tzedaka • She should… Read more »

To Citizen Berel 88
Guest
To Citizen Berel 88

Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch will act faster when desperate to help shluchim start taking matters in their own hands. BTW shluchim are told that other non-chabad rabbonim should do gittin, chabad rabbonim are not involved in this matters. Also one the rabbonim from Vaad rabbonei Lubavitch told a woman in my community who was going through to divorce to do what needs to be done in order to protect herself and kids. This included going to secular court and getting all the necessary temporary orders etc. Since beis din is unable to enforce their orders and protect women and children from… Read more »

What I know
Guest
What I know

I don’t know who Aliza is and frankly I don’t understand her way of thinking. She may mean well but the road to human tragedy is often paved by god intentions. Some people believe in martyrdom for themselves as well as others. They try to justify or rationalize human suffering. In this world we will not have answers to why people suffer. At least not answers that would satisfy most of us. But this I do know from up close and personal experience.; no woman should be chained to a man she does not want to be with. What is… Read more »

More Thoughts - Aliza
Guest
More Thoughts - Aliza

The third paragraph bashes me by name instead of naming the article I wrote. It goes on to bash a concept that I did not write. If this article is sincere and really has a message – there is no need to bash me. Which makes me think the real purpose of the article is to bash me. And that the rest of the article may be just as reliable as the false accusation against me. I am pretty sure that in general the plight of women without a GETT is used to generate power to undermine Halacha. This article… Read more »

What I know
Guest
What I know

43: are you for real? Are you a member of the Bais Din? 69:. Whether you write about yourself or you write about someone close you, we I feel the pain . May every woman who finds herself chained in a marriage that brings her no joy and a man who does not know the meaning of loving kindness find the strength and courage to leave. Better to be poor materially and rich in peace and happiness Hold your head up high and do not care what malicious people will say; they do not live your life, walk in your… Read more »

To Aliza
Guest
To Aliza

Do you know what onaas devarim is? Isn’t it enough that you hurt so many women’s feelings the first time you spoke out? How many more times do you want to be insulting?

Nobody is being vicious to you. I read the comments on your FB page. People are telling you you are being insulting, and now you go do it all over again.
Please, just stop.

To writers of #79 & #84
Guest
To writers of #79 & #84

Good question. To paraphrase: Why is the so-called “prenup” considered to be imposing (financial) duress invalidating the get? Isn’t beating the husband until he says “rotzeh ani” the same? What people don’t seem to realize is that the approach to beat the husband can only be used if a hefty list of conditions are met. If it is used outside of those conditions doing so would also invalidate the get. For a short list, it does not apply when: he is seeking reconciliation for a reasonable time. he complies with Bes Din. she is turning his money over to the… Read more »

#67
Guest
#67

#86, we host singles at our seder (we are in Israel.) The point was, too many divorced or chained women (& men!) have no family & nowhere to go. Helping Agunot get free is essential, but so is keeping them integrated in the community, instead of being isolated & feeling shame, humiliation or like outsiders. Mrs. Shaffer is a very special and caring person.

Aliza
Guest
Aliza

Nobody misunderstood you. You said the women should stop being victims. They are not sitting around being victims. They are going to work and raising their children. But they still have to fight for their get. And they still need financial help and decent housing. Your article was also very insensitive to the very natural need for companionship.

Nobody in the facebook group hurled abused toward you. People are just hurt. Own up to your words.

aliza
Guest
aliza

this is a HORRIBLE thing to say !!

“I am pretty sure that in general the plight of women without a GETT is used to generate power to undermine Halacha. This article may – knowingly or unknowingly – be promoting that undermining.”

Ambassador Aliza
Guest
Ambassador Aliza

I feel like it must feel to represent Israel in the UN.
Condemned by the majority for things I didn’t do.

To 100
Guest
To 100

She said that while the women is doing everything she can to get her get, she should remain positive – instead of feeling depressed and sorry for herself.

Why is everyone missing this simple point? I dont understand. Perhaps you should READ ( Not skim and miss half the words) before you comment.

words
Guest
words

This article justifies the use of the name Agunah. The name generates the desired emotional response. But in doing so – it also reduces the status of the real Agunah. What about showing respect for the real Agunah, and honoring her pain? The next term to be borrowed is domestic abuse. So that when the article comes around to saying that the Rabbis in the Beis Din – or as the author says it Bet Din – when she says they are creative. She does not use the term Gett refusal. She uses the term domestic abuse. But in reality… Read more »

#103
Guest
#103

They are missing it bec. the truth hurts. aliza’s words were corrrect as u need Hashem in EVERY situation and Mrs. lipskar too as u need the keli. but why is there not one word from mrs. lipskar about Hashem? to me, she missed the WHOLE point which is shocking due to the fact she is a shlucha of the Rebbe as aliza went into details about how to approach the situation from a G-dly point of view. now for all those who are waiting for getts: if u have sons, make SURE u are there for them and giving… Read more »

to 101 - by Aliza
Guest
to 101 - by Aliza

I agree it is a horrible thing to say. Have you heard some of the stories of abused children? They are also saying horrible things. So should they keep quiet? Women without a GETT are often vulnerable and often feel alone. Their plight is being used by power mongers who want to put pressure on the rabbis to soften the Halacha. I may have given them the benefit of the doubt before – but now I have felt the extent of their lies and vicious attacks. The Yetzer Tov does not work with that level of energy and hostility. My… Read more »

Do they service Men whose wives refuse to accept a Get?
Guest
Do they service Men whose wives refuse to accept a Get?

After my wife took me to court claiming all kinds of abuse (never to bais din mind you) I get a call one day by a woman who asks why I’m not giving my wife a Get. I wasn’t offended. I know they do good work- I was just surprised my wife would stoop so low. You see, my wife never even took me to even a rav, or bais din- Just straight to court. Why? She is a foreigner and she found out you can get free public assistance for five years if you can prove your husband is… Read more »

Support For Couples In Distress!!
Guest
Support For Couples In Distress!!

We seem to have a lot of avenues for escaping from a marriage, but very few options in Crown Heights for couples who have normal problems? These normal couple problems go unresolved and boom! We have a divorce machine (a few of them) waiting to step in to “help out”. One is the Jewish Family Service. (Gasp! How dare you?) Well, its time you’all knew the awful truth. JFS is the most referred-to resource but the most misunderstood at the same time. They are more a womens crisis center than any marriage resolution center. In fact it might well be… Read more »

X