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Monday, 18 Sivan, 5784
  |  June 24, 2024

Face It, 770 Won’t Be Expanded Anytime Soon

Response to Rabbi Gershon Avtzon: "Lubavitch has grown over the years, while 770 stayed exactly the same. That's exactly why an expansion - especially after this week's events - is not possible and not probable." Full Story

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The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 11, 2024 8:40 pm

Until we have gabboim who aren’t swayed by a soft spot for the mishachist agenda ( that includes chanting/singing yechi, writing שליט״א on the Rebbe’s holy name, and so on) then the tzaftim issue will NEVER go away, and honestly the gabboim will not actually be bothered by that.

I’m not proposing that yechi can’t be said quietly to oneself or that one isn’t personally entitled to their opinions, but the idea of forcing those opinions on others who don’t agree with them has to stop for any genuine change to be seen.

Very true
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 11, 2024 8:58 pm

We need neutral gabboim, who’s only concern is the sanctity, cleanliness and order of the shul

Again with the “tzfatim” 🙄
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 11, 2024 10:56 pm

How many times do ppl need to reiterate that it’s not the actual tzfatim making all these problems??

We’re talking about animals that never even stepped into the tzfas yeshiva.

Heck, These ‘bachurim’ scoff the tzfatim, considering them “too tame and mediocre”

True they aren't necessarily tzfatim
Reply to  Again with the “tzfatim” 🙄
January 12, 2024 1:30 am

They are 770’ers because they were accepted by those in charge of 770. So that’s even worse for the chabad name

Wow!
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 12, 2024 7:05 am

I left CH over 20 years ago , and you guys are still stuck with the Yechi or not Yechi “ and the Shlita issue” Are you serious? !! Even after the horrible atrocities of October 7th ! A war in Gaza , an explosion of dangerous antisemitism all over the world ! Especially here in the US , Let’s not talk about the spiritual Gallus that’s getting way darker, and you guys are still stuck in this mind set ! Wow !! Where is Moshiah when we need him?

Neutral
Reply to  Wow!
January 12, 2024 12:34 pm

So easy to belittle people’s problems when you’re so removed from it.

Yechi?
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 12, 2024 8:51 am

The Rebbe told my husband “ when you say yechi it should be b’kol rom” you are suggesting to be embarrassed to say it out loud. I agree no one should be forced or pushed to say it if they don’t want to, but by the same token, NOONE should be ostracized or/and labeled if they do. Both are WRONG! Ya gotta live and let live. Without labeling people.

Don’t buy your story
Reply to  Yechi?
January 12, 2024 9:11 am

Sorry

Yossi K
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 12, 2024 9:35 am

While I agree with most of your comment. I would like to clarify that these hoodlums get there radicalism from their Yeshivah. They learn in Rishon L’etzion NOT Tzefas. For them, Tzefas isn’t radical enough for them. That is not to say that some of the bochurim that learned in Tzefas don’t agree with them. They learn from their so called mashhpia to do whatever you want to in 770. This most probably is because they know that the gaboyim won’t do anything. A way to identify these hoodlums are by there yellow flag that they see onto there shirts.… Read more »

Backwards
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 12, 2024 10:47 am

Your entitled to your opinion only if you say it quietly? What did that even mean?

Agree wholeheartedly
Reply to  The truth no one wants to say or hear
January 12, 2024 1:17 pm

Singing ,chanting slogans and recreating memories is not what The Rebbe intended to be his legacy, he wanted an army of concerned Jews about the well being of others and doing the service to actually bring Moshiach not parroting Yechi. Mental Health is also not addressed enough, one things is chutzpah, stubbornness and other is mental disorder. This is not flattering to the Rebbe or Hashem. Do the work and sing Yechi once Moshiach is here, the Rebbe OBM is waiting for us to stop being immerse in controversies, distractions and last but no least STOP SPEAKING IDLE THINGS IN… Read more »

Agree, but would add:
January 11, 2024 8:51 pm

Firstly, I do not believe that the entire Yeshiva should be removed from 770, though I do believe that it should return to the way it always was (before Gimmel Tammuz) when kevutza learned outside of 770 in Chovevi Torah, they could be learning in any other nearby building with a normal Seder. Secondly, there is absolutely no reason at all for the crazies to be here. They don’t learn or daven, all they do is fight authority, and frankly their ideologies are dangerous. They should all have their visas revoked and be shipped back to where they came from,… Read more »

Menachem
Reply to  Agree, but would add:
January 11, 2024 10:25 pm

As an initial thought after reading 10-12 lines of this post from Nachshon. That was the first thing that came to mind. Remembering the chaos he brought about after 3 Tammuz. He himself advocated with a few wealthy people against AGu”Ch screaming strengthening these hoodlums to act with absolute no regard for authority. Now 20-30 years later he comes here as a “goody too shoos” and makes himself holy & pure writing these words. Shane on you Mr Nachshon for your double standards and hypocrisy here and now. You & your clan should be ashamed of yourself’s. Please take a… Read more »

Ploni
Reply to  Menachem
January 12, 2024 1:05 am

Who cares what he did 30 years ago? If he’s doing tshuvah now and showing remorse, we should be mekabel him!

770 expansion lol
January 11, 2024 8:52 pm

30 years fighting lol with ego people
these bochurim didn’t do anything in terms of avoiding an expansion…

Kalman
January 11, 2024 8:53 pm

Wake up everybody!! When foxes entered the temple mount Rebbe Akiva laughed! The other Rebbes cried! Why are you laughing? Why are you crying? Because in Gomorrah Sotah it PROPHESIED THAT HOUSES OF WORSHIP WILL BE LIKE THIS!! We have fulfilled the PROPHECY!! MOSHIACH IS CLOSER!! Get ready and stop complaining!!

And
Reply to  Kalman
January 12, 2024 2:11 am

What’s your point. How does that have anything to do with 770. Geez

Kalman ( Shiliach) of the Mitzvah Tank
Reply to  And
January 13, 2024 8:25 pm

My point is you have to look at the bigger picture, the Jewish world is burning with antisemitism, a war in Israel, We are in the prophecy now!! 7 of Elul, here Moshiach comes, this is all part of the process

Apparently
Reply to  Kalman
January 12, 2024 6:07 am

3-1 ratio of Chabad disagrees with you so perhaps find another venue for your ingenious thoughts and comments

Kalman
January 11, 2024 8:56 pm

The Lubavitcher Rebbe came out for a year and more and NODDED HIS HEAD TO YECHI!! Was The Rebbe misleading us? NO IS THE ANSWER! Again stop fighting against The Lubavitcher Rebbe!!! Just Stop it!!!

Seriously ?
Reply to  Kalman
January 11, 2024 9:32 pm

Yechi doesn’t represent chabad and the Rebbe זי״ע as well.

seriously??
Reply to  Seriously ?
January 12, 2024 2:36 am

sure it does. , who is zia? the Rebbe wanted Yechi and every lubavitcher must believe the Rebbe is Moschiach . like it or not and not because i said so, but the Rebbe said so.basic judiasm and chassidsheket
zg

Yechi
Reply to  Seriously ?
January 12, 2024 9:05 am

I’m not a fanatic about yechi etc. and don’t believe in making a fight because of it, but the posit of yechi came from the Rebbe himself. Stop denying facts, to suit your venomous agenda.

standing on benches
January 11, 2024 9:16 pm

Why do bochurim (and in other pictures police) stand on the benches that have seforim on it?

770 packed
Reply to  standing on benches
January 11, 2024 10:14 pm

Maybe if we expand 770 then we will have space to move around without needing to stand on the table just to sit down and to get out….

standing on benches
Reply to  770 packed
January 12, 2024 10:35 am

You’re saying it’s okay that the seforim are left half open and scattered around with people standing on the same level as them because there is no room. I also saw from the pictures plenty of standing space.

Thank you ColLive
January 11, 2024 9:22 pm

Thank you for the great coverage.
As a member of Crown Heights it is refreshing to see proper coverage that is honest about the issues

How can you write like this?
January 11, 2024 9:31 pm

Are you not a lubavitcher who wants this to happen? You don’t think that the rebbe wanted this to happen? Why don’t you write how improbable it is for moshiach to come it’s been so long gimmel tamuz happened let’s just give up on all of this pack up shop and leave but clearly you’re not ready to do that. So why do you write so strongly that things that the rebbe wanted won’t happen when you know someone’s sick and it’s probably they’re going to die, you don’t say it’s probably they’re going to die. You have hope that… Read more »

zimashpia
January 11, 2024 9:33 pm

this is terrible and it should…..

Regarding expansion
January 11, 2024 9:36 pm

A point I haven’t seen anyone make is that the overwhelming majority of Chabad who does want 770 expanded, also wants it to be done in a way that changes the least amount possible from the original familiar shul that was saturated with the Rebbe’s holy presence for thousands of hours over the myears. The crazies who broke the wall not only don’t share that opinion, they DELIBERATELY try to defy the notion and make changes as drastically as possible in order to prove that they don’t see it as a historical site, but that the Rebbe is physically there… Read more »

Rebbe had different ideas than either
Reply to  Regarding expansion
January 12, 2024 1:37 am

“It was a bit more than a month after the hanachas even hapinah—groundbreaking ceremony to renovate and expand 770. In the sichah of Hoshanah Rabbah 5749 (1988), the Rebbe referenced architectural drawings that a few Chassidim had submitted. The Rebbe had some firm critique on these plans. 770 was not to be a corporate skyscraper—it needed to be accessible to all, especially for those attending on Shabbos and Yom Tov, and for women with toddlers. It must be designed as a place for lebedike yidden to gather, with directions for better “urban planning” for the surrounding neighborhood of Crown Heights… Read more »

Really?
Reply to  Regarding expansion
January 12, 2024 2:19 am

If they believe the Rebbe is there, how can they do such a thing. Would they really do this in front of the Rebbe? Destroying walls of his shul? This proves they don’t believe what they claim.

Historicall site.
Reply to  Regarding expansion
January 12, 2024 9:11 am

You are wrong! The Rebbe very much wanted the shul to change and be made to extend all the way to Union street. He was extremely upset that it wasn’t done.

"Universal agreement" that it is needed?
January 11, 2024 9:46 pm

This article mentions a WhatsApp voice message that “there’s universal agreement it is needed” referring to expansion. What universal agreement?? I don’t think it’s needed and many other people I know don’t think it’s needed, and don’t want “expansion” for dozens of reasons, and we love 770 the way it is now. Although it could use a good cleaning; primarily a cleaning of the crazies who did what they did this week. Stop pushing this expansion thing down everyone’s throat. If the Rebbe wanted it, something would have been done in the last 50 years. So to the rabbi from… Read more »

Lol
Reply to  "Universal agreement" that it is needed?
January 11, 2024 9:59 pm

You don’t want expansion. Aha. I guess you don’t daven in 770 anyways?

Lol
Reply to  "Universal agreement" that it is needed?
January 11, 2024 10:00 pm

Aha I get it, the rebbe didn’t do anything about it. Someone needs a history lesson…

Universal
Reply to  "Universal agreement" that it is needed?
January 12, 2024 9:18 am

In one sentence, you are %1000 dead wrong. Most people are disgusted with the way 770 looks, starting with the Rebbe! And this has been going on since way way before gimmel Tammuz. And again, you’re dead wrong to say people listen to the Rebbe. Because the Rebbe wanted 770 to be redone more than anything. But nothing was done.

Great Article. Here are some thoughts:
January 11, 2024 9:46 pm

770 should be dedicated to davening, communal shiurim and a place for baalei batim to learn. 770 should employ community members as full-time workers to ensure that everything remains organized, the building remains clean and the Rebbe’s kavod is preserved. The building on Union St. should be renovated and the American bochurim should learn there. The kvutzah bochurim should be split into a few groups that will learn in a few different shuls around Crown Heights (not right next to 770 so they won’t just hang out in front of 770 all day). Splitting the kvutzah bochurim up will help… Read more »

Great suggestions
Reply to  Great Article. Here are some thoughts:
January 13, 2024 12:56 pm

Should be taken note of

Dont expand
January 11, 2024 9:48 pm

No to expansion until the drek is cleansed.

Cleansed?
Reply to  Dont expand
January 11, 2024 10:52 pm

Like a final solution to the tsfati problem?
There is a popular early century German book that you may like…
After that I would highly recommend the protocols…

Apparently
Reply to  Cleansed?
January 12, 2024 6:11 am

No the way in which historically renegade violent students were thrown out of yeshivas.
Jewish history doesn’t tolerate violent disturbed students like these

Apparently
Reply to  Cleansed?
January 12, 2024 6:13 am

What you just did is called a straw man argument that you should look it up; because you can’t argue with something that the person didn’t say. He called for them to be thrown out of Yeshiva and Chabad and for them never to be allowed to enter the yeshiva and Chabad ever again anywhere in the world. Only a genius and a future Nobel Prize winner, as your esteemed highness, would take his comment to mean that he would want them to be gassed in Auschwitz. The ridiculous interpretation of your comment bespeaks of your brain and its other… Read more »

Um, no
January 11, 2024 9:50 pm

This article is flawed in literally every argument it makes. 1) it isn’t possible to expand. Reason: there’s a legal battle. So what, can’t both sides agree on a plan, and then they can expand? 2) it’s not probable. Reason 1: it will give the tzfatim more space to control. What in the world? We won’t expand to make space for people to come daven because of such a petty concern?! We need new readership to deal with the tzfatim, true. But how in the world is that a reason not to expand? Even if we don’t fix the issue… Read more »

Exactly, no
January 11, 2024 10:03 pm

1. No. They haven’t agreed since before Gimel Tamuz. That’s the reality whether we like it or not

2. Expanding while tzfatim are still there is like cleaning a dish with the food still inside.

Feeling welcome is one of the main reasons people are asking for the expansion. It should be a presentable place where Chabad houses can bring mekuravim to, pegisha and so on

3. Why should headquarters fundraise for a shul that will have The Yechi posters???

If we want to expand 770, we first need to clean up 770

Lol
Reply to  Exactly, no
January 11, 2024 10:17 pm

1) They haven’t, true. Now that attention has been brought to it, they will hopefully agree on a plan.
2) Maybe that’s the reason you want to expand, but the main reason is because there is no space.
3) trust me, there are people out there who don’t mind yechi who have money. Can you believe it?

B"H WHats. theProblemwith YECHI
Reply to  Exactly, no
January 11, 2024 11:10 pm

 IF THE REBB’E MH”M Gave Chizzuk to it THAT MEANS YOUR JUST LIKE THEM TRYING TO GO AGAINST THE REBBE”EBECAUSE OF YOUR OPION YOUR GOING AGAINST THE REBBE MH”M TCHPIT NISHT YECHI HAMELECH HAMOSHIACH LIOLAM VAED and those TZFATIM ARENT what a MESHICHIST IS BECAUSE REALLY IF YOU CALL YOUR SELF A LUBAVITCHER CHOSSID YOU ARE A MESHICHIST BECAUSE YOU ARE A DUGMA OF THE REBB”E MH”M MOSHIACH NOW BEZH”Y MIT GANTZ HISGALUS YITZER NOW MAMESH MAMES MAMESH FAR ALE YIDDEN REFUIOS UN NOR GUTSKAIT AMEN KEIN YEHI RATZION IN DI EBB”ES MH”M VERTER SELA

Apparently
Reply to  B"H WHats. theProblemwith YECHI
January 12, 2024 6:14 am

I think you have to make your capped letters three times as big and then we will accept what you are saying.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU SCREAM PEOPLE LISTEN

A few simple solutions
January 11, 2024 10:09 pm

770 is a mess and has been for a long time. Primarily because the people that spend time there simply don’t care. No one puts back their seforim, food, tissues, cups, clothing and everything else is just left where they are and not put in the garbage. People decide on their own to have a bar mitzvah, or kiddush with no process for getting permission, meanwhile making a mess and a smell in the shul. Every organization just dumps pamphlets wherever and whenever they want with no regard for the fact that someone needs to clean up and put away… Read more »

Crown heights resident
Reply to  A few simple solutions
January 11, 2024 10:50 pm

Bh.
Well said.
Just to add the speakers at the Farbrengens need to be vetted. We listen to speakers who are authors that are menuvalim. They were thrown out of Yeshiva and now become a speaker. Shame on the Shul. Never again. Clean up already.

ch resident
Reply to  Crown heights resident
January 12, 2024 2:45 am

the use of words shows, you dont care, you just have hate. your like a typical liberal, that if you dont agree with them you use names. .PATHETIC!!!

It’s so sad
January 11, 2024 10:34 pm

I think that both the antis and the meshichists need to make peace, they’re both okay. Meanwhile as long as the Meshichists TOLERATE the mob of bochurim that run the show at the moment, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Rabbi Braun, please take a stand.

Apparently
Reply to  It’s so sad
January 12, 2024 6:15 am

It reminds me of the peace being called for in Israel.
We’re not making Peace this time.
All the calls for peace led to this happening in the first place

AMAZING!!
Reply to  Apparently
January 13, 2024 3:53 pm

Collive, may be worth printing a separate article just with this!

The Rebbe said in 5729, printed in lekutei Sichos, chelek 11, page 12 in the footnotes that by the Yidden having ahavas Yisrael in general, and especially with regards to the inyan of speaking about Moshiach etc. they will draw down the complete geula through Moshiach…. The way you bring about achdus in the world is through first having achdus by yidden. Achdus means that you have different opinions individually, but you are with Achdus.

Amazing!! So relevant!!

Face it ?
January 11, 2024 10:39 pm

770 Won’t Be Expanded Anytime Soon?? I don’t understand this train of thought. Sounds like you never wanted it to be build. Very confused by this article.
But I like the rabbi Akiva perspective very wise. All we must do now is laugh.אז ימלא שחוק פינו

Well
Reply to  Face it ?
January 12, 2024 2:24 am

Keep laughing.

Expanding 770?
January 11, 2024 11:07 pm

What about first fixing all the hand dryers (maybe provide paper towel?), provide cups for drinks? Provide proper water at the coffee station (last week I was the water faucet wasn’t working)…

Yes.
Reply to  Expanding 770?
January 12, 2024 2:04 am

Sponsorship available

Elchonon
January 11, 2024 11:33 pm

I have a simple solution for the mshichist wild or tame bochrim Contact Steven Spielberg or Disney company and have a robot perfect creation of the fantasy They imagine Hey they don’t have to imagine they will have A perfect creation as good as the recreation of Abraham Lincoln who gives a speech in Disney world . Or just ship them back to israel Who is giving them student visas which members of the hanhala . Put pressure on the hanhala to stop the influx of these miscreants And yes the current gaboim tolerated them and the hanhala who allows… Read more »

The kvutza bochrim
January 11, 2024 11:43 pm

The year of the kvutza bochrim it’s very important for them specially they come from Israel to spend a year and learn in 770 so for them it’s important to be in 770 !!

Apparently
Reply to  The kvutza bochrim
January 12, 2024 6:16 am

Tzfas yeshiva should be banned forever from the Kevutza program.
Vilshanaky should be imprisoned.

they dont belong in 770
Reply to  The kvutza bochrim
January 13, 2024 11:52 pm

Before gimmel tammuz kvutza never learned in 770

Aharon Berger
January 11, 2024 11:58 pm

The gap between those who subscribe to a “meshechist” approach in its various forms and those who do not is very wide. We are not speaking of minor points of difference, nuanced subtle variations in understanding, we are talking about fundamental differences in how the issue of Rebbe and the Messianic Era are understood. The destructive behavior of the young extremists did not spring out of a ideological vacuum, these boys drew on the messianic ideas they were taught and eventually broke away and now espouse an even more radical theology. A new strong willed elected Board of Management is… Read more »

Why is it crowded
January 12, 2024 1:18 am

Sometimes the solution is to get rid of the goats: “A Jew came to the Rabbi, begging for advice. “Rabbi, my life is unbearable. I work hard all day but we are very poor. My wife and I and our six children all live in a one-room shack. Our clothes are threadbare, we hardly have food, what shall we do?” The Rabbi pondered and then gave the man a coin from the charity box, and said, “Buy a goat.” “You mean, so we can have free milk?” The Rabbi nodded. “But Rabbi, even if we could afford a goat, we… Read more »

SO CALLED REBUTTAL
January 12, 2024 2:52 am

THIS SO CALLED REBUTTAL MAKES NO SENSE.
770 NEEDS TO BE EXPANDED IF ONLY BECAUSE THE REBBE WANTED IT. THATS ENOUGH OF A REASON. WE DONT NEED TO OVER THINK SOMETHING THE REBBE WANTS.

770 should be expanded
January 12, 2024 3:32 am

Most people in Lubavitch want 770 to be expanded, on every side. The disagreement is how to do it, and who will be in charge. These issues must be resolved. 770 must be expanded, that’s the Rebbes ratzon. Why can’t we come to some kind of agreement for the the benefit of everyone?
Also they’re tzfatim, not meshechistim. There’s a big difference

Gershon you have become a politician
January 12, 2024 5:43 am

The Rebbe wants expansion, by the way believing that Rebbe is physically alive in 770 is and was something major mashpiam always spoke about such as zalman notik,zalman liberow, rabbi zimroni tzik, zalman landau, chaim Levy yitzchok Ginsberg a respected mashpiam a mushpa of r mendel fuerfas who wrote many books such as penini hatanya e.t.c , so just from your style of writing I am very desopinted,

RABBI AVTZON DID NOT WRITE THIS..
Reply to  Gershon you have become a politician
January 12, 2024 10:58 am

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING???

Will be even better..
January 12, 2024 8:39 am

Why did the Rebbe stay on the balcony for so long, assertively encouraging the singing of Yechi for such a long time. All of a sudden people have no seichel – to realize it was for a purpose (and the imporantance of proclaiming this)? It meant nothing? How does one conclude that?! Wake uo. __ The chances that 770 will be expanded might be bigger, now that attention has been drawn to the issue. Do we think that the Rebbe’s vision will not materialize? Everything is a process. The Rebbe said that melech hamoshach is guiding all the politics and… Read more »

We don’t know why
Reply to  Will be even better..
January 13, 2024 1:07 pm

We can ask the Rebbe why he encouraged Yechi back then, when he returns to us with the Yechudei Segulah at Techiyas HaMeisim (may it happen B’Korov Mamash!) Until that time we won’t know why, nor can we extrapolate from it. Since it alienates and divides people R”L there’s no Toeles in promoting it.

Reality
January 12, 2024 8:41 am

Time to move on. What exactly is the point of building up and expanding within the golus? Plenty of room here in the Holy Land!

Ownership of 770 has been settled
January 12, 2024 10:18 am

The courts have ruled that 770 is owned by Aguch/Merkos. The current litigation is about whether the landlord (Aguch/Merkos) can evict the long-term tenants, the congregation/gabboim. In NY, it’s hard to evict tenants, so legally we are at a impasse. A solution may be to elect a different group of gabboim (the current group have been tolerating and enabling the madness). The issue with electing gabboim also has to be resolved as a lot of people say that the elections are illegitimate as the Rebbe said that the gabboim of 770 must be appointed by Aguch, and not elected by… Read more »

This response IS the problem
January 12, 2024 11:04 am

After such an incident, there is no one coming out and saying what changes need to be made in the operations of 770- rather we are discussing an expansion?
How far gone is leadership from reality?
You think the expansion is the problem?
Where, in fact, are the leaders? What is the response? Who and what guidelines will be implemented to ensure that such a chillul Chabad and chillul Hashem- a true atrocity- does not happen again?

X