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Monday, 21 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 24, 2019

    Ending a Shidduch in Person

    From the COLlive inbox: It's time we take into account the other person's feelings and end the shidduch yourself if it doesn't fit. Full Story

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    the value of a 3rd party
    Guest
    the value of a 3rd party

    I think it is more bakovodik to let it be through a shadchan.its ussually more gentle and allows a person to experience pin without the shame, that they may feel if told face to face. Hashem should send you your shidduch very soon and no one should experience any of this kind of pain.

    No way!!!
    Guest
    No way!!!

    As a girl I would feel very bad wasting a man’s money and time that he spends on a date just so I can tell him goodbye. This isn’t the secular world where people date for months, in which case it’s not a matter of money but basic decency. I agree that perhaps a phone call after a certain amount of time dating can be ok. Once the shadchan is out of the picture.

    Maybe
    Guest
    Maybe

    Maybe it’s not so comfortable for her to hear from you that your not interested? Maybe it will be a bit awkward?

    Rabbi Manis disagrees
    Guest
    Rabbi Manis disagrees

    Listen to his talk about this on 11213.org He said if the boy is breaking it off, when he tells, she will ask him why? When she does that, he, innocently and honestly responds, Yet, what ever the reason is has nothing to do with her. It was his impression of her, that’s it. yet she will remain traumatized buy that knowledge. She will see herself as not attractive, talk too fast, not smart enough, to tall, too opinionated, Now this girl might not be going on anymore dates for a long time because she knows she’s got issues when… Read more »

    Totally disagree
    Guest
    Totally disagree

    The whole purpose of having a shadchan is for them to be the intermediary. One of the ‘benefits’ of having someone in the middle is so that if it doesn’t work out no one has to be put in an awkward position where they have to say to a person’s face I’m sorry but this isn’t working out. Even if the person says it in the nicest way possible it’s more complicated. For many reasons. So in my opinion the shadchan should be the one to end things if need be.

    I couldn't agree more
    Guest
    I couldn't agree more

    I have to say that i see myself telling a shadchan that i think it should end, but when you are the one who “understands only later”, you realize how important it is to have a proper ending.

    Completely the opposite
    Guest
    Completely the opposite

    Rejection is unpleasant in all forms. It is even more unpleasant if the side being rejected has already started to connect / bond to the person rejecting him/her. Being rejected in person, face-to-face, can be flat out demeaning, since there is nowhere to “run” or “hide” from the person rejecting you. In addition, each additional date (and all the physical and emotional preparations that go into it) only STRENGTHENS whatever bond is there. So if stoping the “relationship” is painful on date number “n”, then it is even more painful on date numebr “n+1”. In other words, you are only… Read more »

    I disagree
    Guest
    I disagree

    I think that if u tell it to the other directly it will hurt much more and I personally feel that by going to a shadchan it will be less hurtful be the person that is getting so called rejection is upset and if you say to that person they will either be more upset and go bezurke or just try to convince the other to continue and make it work which in theory that may be nice for one person but for the other person it won’t so you are just stalling and then the rejection later on will… Read more »

    Shalom
    Guest
    Shalom

    It is true and very very important that both sides are Mentchlich to each other throughout. However I disagree, One of the very reasons for a Shadchan (even when the idea came from family/friend) is to protect the feeling when one side wants to end the shiduch! This way the girl or the guy isn’t caught up with what’s wrong with them or what they did wrong etc…. which can cause tremendous amount of pain….. Rather leave it to the shadchan to do in a dignified way! -this is in general- but ofcourse every case is different and possibly age… Read more »

    You are right
    Guest
    You are right

    During dating, a person must be a mentch. If one believes that they must move on and end things, they should, like you suggested, tell the person without the shadchan middleman/woman. Here is how it will go… “So I don’t believe this will work so I wish you hatzlacha to find your true zivug.” “What? I thought things were going so well.” “Yeah but I don’t believe it’s right.” “Why?” “Why? Uhh, it’s personal preferences.” “Was something wrong?” “No.” “Then what is the problem?” “Look you’re very nice but (insert problems here like not smart enough for me, nose too… Read more »

    Just a thought
    Guest
    Just a thought

    There’s only 1 thing I can think of that would hurt some1 emotionally involved in a Shiduch more than a message through a middle man.
    That would be – dealing with the embarrassment face to face.
    What if someone begins to cry? What would that car ride home look or feel like?
    I don’t know, and definitely wouldn’t want to find out.

    So maybe the way we do it (and have been for years) does have some validity… But to each their own

    Fine
    Guest
    Fine

    We are all human. We can say yes and no.

    dear auther
    Guest
    dear auther

    It really depends case by case. It seems that most people don’t agree with you. You speak about dignity. Maybe telling a person to their face “no” is having no respect for their dignity. I personally think when dating is going on for a while, and boy/girl wants to call it off, it should be done through a phone call.

    How is that going to help?
    Guest
    How is that going to help?

    They are not getting married, and thats the point of dating. Once its not happening, they have no further need to be in touch.

    Never directly
    Guest
    Never directly

    Never tell directly ,why should you? to see the other person’s reaction?
    please, use intermediary asap and both g next
    Nobody is unnatractive, or has issues, or weird, it’s just not one for each other, say gam zu letova and its going to be letova
    Then when you find your bashert, you are going to look back and say Boruch Hashem

    my personal case
    Guest
    my personal case

    one time i rang the girl to end the shidduch i was very polite
    and she was so mad i rang myself instead of doing through the middle man ….. so not necessarily the best

    Why
    Guest
    Why

    It doesn’t make any sense for the boy or girl to tell the other party I’m not interested in you anymore that’s so hurtful

    Also you sound insecure (tell us what you think) (I know that you’ll be commenting this)

    What if you know that the shadchan is the best suites to inform the boy that the shidduch won’t work?

    Fundamentally different
    Guest
    Fundamentally different

    This is an example of how secular thinking had penetrated our outlook. In the velt, dating constitutes a “relationship” and if it doesn’t work out, the couple “break up”.
    In the shidduch world, the focus is on getting married. When you go out with someone it is for the purpose to see if you want to have a relationship-marriage with person in the future.

    Disagree
    Guest
    Disagree

    For all the reasons the previous 10 comments wrote

    Couldn't disagree more.
    Guest
    Couldn't disagree more.

    I think all the prior comments put it very well. There is a reason why we have the shadchon so that we should NOT have to end it face to face causing unnecessary heartbreak.
    May you find your bashert very soon in an easy happy way!
    Kesivah vachasimah tova

    Really?
    Guest
    Really?

    Not every guy is emotionally inept. When he ends it and she asks why. he doesn’t have to point out her faults he can just say I didn’t notice anything wrong etc “I just didn’t feel any chemistry” now the car ride home is another story…….

    "medu("trefen zich") not "date"/"dating"!
    Guest
    "medu("trefen zich") not "date"/"dating"!

    We must speek “b’lishon nekiya” as the torah always does (psak hagemora and shulchan oruch). “Date” is a secular word,implying also just having “fun” and a “good time” just l’shaim taavoh (heaven forbid). we must eradicate the goiyishe expressions and use ,L’havdil, the rebbe’s holy expressions,so we will approach this whole matter in a more holy and ‘aidel’ way and avoid in the first place many (if not all)problems. The rebbe wrote to Horav avrohom dov hecht z”l as the rebbe looked over the draft of his address to the members of the house of chambers, that he should not… Read more »

    disagree
    Guest
    disagree

    in addition to all the prior comments, how does it work. tell him as soon as you get into the car? so now after he rented a car, he swings around the block, drops you off, and ends the evening? or wait until you get to Manhattan, have a drink, and then tell him? it just doesnt work! it is obviously a very painful and sensitive issue, and through a sadchan (or through a shadchan to parents to son or daughter) is the more sensitive, and kovod habrius way to go. Now if they were dating for a year and… Read more »

    To those who disagree, OFFER to tell him/her directly:
    Guest
    To those who disagree, OFFER to tell him/her directly:

    Obviously many people will feel differently and will even strongly disagree with this “bochus” writing. However, take a good look and you will see that he writes to either tell or to “OFFER TO TELL” the other person directly and in person, this way you can assure that you will do the mentchliche thing – according to that persons feelings.

    I beg to differ
    Guest
    I beg to differ

    A friend of mine was dating, when was ready to call it quits I suggested to her to end it by calling him…. Why waste other persons time if you know you’re just meeting to end it? To me or seems mentchlich more than calling him for meeting which requires a lot more of other person

    Agree with the author
    Guest
    Agree with the author

    I’m BH married for many years now, but back when I was dating, I was rejected through a Shadchan and I felt like a wall was placed in front of me. The date was going very well and everything seemed fine. It appears that someone in her family talked her out of it for whatever reason, and instead of telling me in person, which I would have respected and accepted, I was just told via a third party that she was no longer interested. Several months later I was dating someone who felt incompatible, and I told her honestly and… Read more »

    There is a way of talking
    Guest
    There is a way of talking

    If you feel that it isn’t going the right way…. then you could drop a hint. You don’t carry on a date pretending everything is fine and then turn around and drop him / her the next time. There are shadchanim for this reason – to communicate between both parties, patch things up if necessary and if that doesn’t work, help end it and encourage to move on.
    Everyone has feelings and should be treated with dignity, including the shadchan!

    Shidduch
    Guest
    Shidduch

    I came to end my dating and i ended up marrying her.

    Please read.
    Guest
    Please read.

    If a person gets rejected even if he or she was not really interested before getting rejected, it might give a horrible feeling. Accept that it hurts and ask hashem for the right one.
    “Closing it with respect” will make things harder. Distract yourself. Keep looking. It WILL be ok.

    Who said anything about "date"?
    Guest
    Who said anything about "date"?

    Many comments have questioned/challenged this “bochur” by asking, what is the point of “dating” for the sake of ending it? Not to mention the money and time etc? Brains people! Firstly, ask the shadchan to ask the other party if they would prefer to meet up to end it. If he/she does not want it they will then say no. As to how and where you meet up, this will depend on the circumstance and situation. It is a case by case. For all those that will feel ‘ashamed’ and hurt by an ending in person: that’s the way you… Read more »

    I agree somewhat and also disagree
    Guest
    I agree somewhat and also disagree

    if your dating for a while and you both know each other pretty well…already comfortable, gone out many times…then it would be nice to talk about why it isn’t working
    However if it’s just the beginning there is no need for that…it’s also hard for the one who thinks this isn’t for me to let the other person know…..he/she doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings it’s hard on both sides
    So since it’s just the beginning it should be done through the shaddchin.

    My experience
    Guest
    My experience

    Once I was dating a guy who was ready to get engaged and I wasn’t going to marry him. I asked the shadchan to break the news to him and she refused, saying that we should meet at someone’s private home (so no money would be spent on the date) and I should tell him face-to-face. That was one of the hardest things I ever did, but I think in that situation it was the right thing to do. There was no conversation after I told him — he didn’t want to talk. W e just left the house separately.… Read more »

    correction to title of #22
    Guest
    correction to title of #22

    Title should read:
    “medubor”/”meduberes” not “date”.
    “meeting”(“Trefen zich”/’pegishah” )not “date”/”dating”!

    Disagree
    Guest
    Disagree

    Completely unmentchlich

    Always think consequences
    Guest
    Always think consequences

    It can be very humiliating to be told to someones’ face that they are not quite right.Sure the shadchan route may be a cop out but I would take this for my kids than have them be subjected to the former.There is no nice way to be rejected.There is no nice way to tell someone “I’m just not feeling it”.The words and mentchlichkeit will not matter because the person will only hear “ge/she no longer wants to see me”.Spare the person.That’s the kindest thing to do.

    Once youv'e taken it on your own
    Guest
    Once youv'e taken it on your own

    Once you’ve taken it on your own it is your duty to end it on your own to be a mentch. If you did not take it on your own you can do it through the Shadcan. It would be very inappropriate to have someone else and a relationship that you have started and taken on your own.

    Guilty
    Guest
    Guilty

    Although we thought it was the right way to go… by telling the shadchan that our son thought it wasn’t a suitable idea, we are sorry if we hurt the girl’s feelings by doing so. Our son later told the girl herself. We didn’t realize she was hurt. Sorry for hurting you. You are a wonderful person, albeit, obviously the shidduch wasn’t meant to be. Hope we are forgiven.

    Agree 100 percent
    Guest
    Agree 100 percent

    I agree with the author but it depends on the circumstances. If you think it could help change a mind that’s delusional. If you became close then maybe. And if it’s premature then the shadchan is best.

    someone who has been on all sides of the coin
    Guest
    someone who has been on all sides of the coin

    I have dated where the entire thing went through a shadchan and dated where we took over and did things ourselves. I have been rejected, and I have done the rejecting. and I can say that rejection through the shadchan is the best option.. yes it stings it hurts but it doesnt humiliate or crush a person as much as face to face does.

    Disagreed
    Guest
    Disagreed

    No one would ever want to be told wrong in the face! It’s so humiliating!!! And the car….
    That’s why we have a shadchan and them do their job!

    Disagree but....
    Guest
    Disagree but....

    I remember reading a Rebbe letter that after a shidduch is broken up the party that did should opologise

    Broken Hearted
    Guest
    Broken Hearted

    My first Shidduch, the girl decided to have a date in a public place a few blocks from her house (so she could walk home). Then she broke it off with me face to face. Started crying. Then didn’t feel safe for me to drive her home. I felt like I was some kind of monster that she was afraid of me that she wouldn’t let me drive her home. Nahh, I prefer that she would of just told the Shadchan or called me on the phone. I could of spent the morning studying Torah instead of being totally humiliated… Read more »

    NO WAY!!!
    Guest
    NO WAY!!!

    Saying face to face is a BAD idea. What if they ask why?What do you respond?I don’t like you? You’re ugly… etc.

    To the author:
    Guest
    To the author:

    To you, A GUY, this makes sense. But to us girls, being told face-to-face, and having to mask our reaction until we get home, or have to ask why, or engage in a discussion about why you don’t want to marry me, is a lot worse than the shadchan telling me he is not interested. So I think this boils down to different styles, especially between the genders. But I do agree that mentchlichkeit is always key, especially in dating and marriage.

    disaggree
    Guest
    disaggree

    it is very goyish to break up in person and I don’t think its ok to exchange numbers. it is best to just deal with the shadchan alone. if you dated for a while and want clarity then you can ask the shadchan to explain the reasons to you better. why do you need the person to say you are a great guy just not for me?

    he is right!
    Guest
    he is right!

    Totally agree with the author

    This is Against Halacha
    Guest
    This is Against Halacha

    the only reason that meeting a girl that you are not married to is allowed is for the sake of getting married, Once that reason is gone so is your permission to meet the girl.

    Disturbing
    Guest
    Disturbing

    I cannot believe that most people on this blog would rather “brake-up” through the Shadchan AFTER you already stopped using the Shadchan.
    With the lame excuse that your worried about the other person. Pathetic & disturbing.

    To 41
    Guest
    To 41

    That’s after an engagement, which is totally different. A commitment was made, feelings are hurt, and the break up is a result of something. Here they are meeting IN ORDER to determine is they are a match or not. Doesn’t work out? You tell the shadchan and go on

    It is totally counterintuitive
    Guest
    It is totally counterintuitive

    I totally understand the authors frustration but his suggestion will not bear any positive fruit.
    Let’s say the girl is the one to break it off and it is for reasons that she does not want to share (which is most of the time, an attribute or look she can not bare, or perhaps family pressure, the odds of her telling the truth are,minimum minimal. I don’t tho she would lie, but she would,stretch or,push the truth, or,perhaps bring a less relevant reason.
    Bottom line the other party will feel and no they were not being honest

    It all starts
    Guest
    It all starts

    It all starts with referring to it as “dating”, which turns it into a “relationship” that was “broken up”.

    The rebbe
    Guest
    The rebbe

    one time when a bochur wrote about a shidduch offer, the rebbe crossed out the words “going out” and changed it to “meeting”. Veda”l

    Breaking off engagements
    Guest
    Breaking off engagements

    What about when a guy decides he is going to break off the engagement but never tells you just takes a break and never returns your calls. Then you need to be a sleuth and find out what is going on by yourself with him saying I don’t want to be married to you but I want you to break off the engagement not me because whoever breaks off the engagement is supposed to pay the other party. There are some disgusting people out there but BH it usually works out for the good.

    Know the truth!
    Guest
    Know the truth!

    Just because someone ‘broke up’ with you, it doesn’t mean that anything is wrong with you. You are good, you are pretty/handsome, you are nice, you are intelligent etc. etc. The only thing is that the ‘other’ needs something different in a spouse.
    It’s really unhealthy to blame yourself for something that is not even true. Be”H you will find your bashert with the hishtadlus and siyata dishmaya. May it be very soon!!!!

    Terrible terrible terrible.
    Guest
    Terrible terrible terrible.

    Terrible idea. Go through a shadchan. It’s always more respectable.

    to #49
    Guest
    to #49

    This is not clear at all.
    I know of more than one situation, including one of my own experiences, where the couple dated for a while, then one party broke it off and a Rov said that the person who broke it off had to ask mechila. if the relationship has developed for a while and one party wants to end it, a Rov should be consulted because the expectation that this was leading to marriage can cause hard feelings.

    keep the shadchan throughout
    Guest
    keep the shadchan throughout

    Don’t exchange numbers and avoid all this heartbreak.

    Keep the shadchan until engagement
    Guest
    Keep the shadchan until engagement

    This is the solution to this very real problem and is also an integral part of the shadchan system which somehow has fallen away over the years. This is the primary purpose of the shadchan!

    Hesrtbroken many times
    Guest
    Hesrtbroken many times

    Heartbreak is part of growing up. There is no pleasure without pain. On second thought why not keep the shadchan on retainer till the first bar mitzvah

    touched off a storm
    Guest
    touched off a storm

    To the Author of the article,

    It appears as though you touched off a storm of protests for and against. The truth is, each situation is different. So whichever course the potential “dater” wants to choose is ultimately the one that will save him/her the most face. Let’s hope it’s done tactfully and with consideration to the other person’s feelings as much as possible. Someone will always be hurt/disappointed when the shidduch doesn’t work, but that is part of the dating and maturing process.

    To comments 29 and 54:
    Guest
    To comments 29 and 54:

    To 29: you write that it could be that the one rejected wasn’t really interested but the rejection is still a horrible feeling etc. How does one/do you know if the other person really was interested or not? The gemara (pesachim 54a) says that one does not know what is in anothers heart. You may be mistaken and someones heart might be getting hurt. To 54: indeed it may be that it wasn’t a ‘chisoron’ in the person that made the decision (or it was – makes sense too, given that we all have flaws) and it is about what… Read more »

    Brilliant
    Guest
    Brilliant

    Well written, thoughtfull, clear (yet looks a bit like too much fitted in a box). I assume, after your experiences you realized what you should have done before to make things more clear for you and the other part. I got a sense of ” I want to do the things right” kind of guy and ” I need to be approved to do so” . In res. I’m a single girl and I, despite the fact I see many disagree to it, have put to an end relationships.

    Happened to me
    Guest
    Happened to me

    I did not read the article or any comments, but what I have to say based on the title: I dated someone for over a month before realizing he was not my bashert. I knew I had to be the one to tell him and not the shadchan (especially because at that point we were dealing with things ourselves). I considered telling him in person which I felt was right, however I figured it would be more upsetting to him to tell him to pick me up so we can talk. Picking me up, and driving somewhere only to be… Read more »

    author is right
    Guest
    author is right

    and every person who disagreed with him – we know its only because u are afraid/embarrased to reject in person..therefor u claim its wrong to do so.

    DEPENDS ON WHO YOU'RE DATING
    Guest
    DEPENDS ON WHO YOU'RE DATING

    I personally would refer doing it in person (or over the phone so as not to waste the boy’s money). However, I once dated someone that preferred going through a shadchan and thought it would be less painful that way.
    It’s important to keep in mind the other person you’re dating and follow his/her wishes even if they conflict with yours.
    (That’s what marriage is all about!)

    X