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Monday, 14 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 17, 2019

    Dumped Like a Queen

    From the COLlive inbox: "The shidduch with the first bochur I've liked in four years has ended and I feel like a million bucks..." Full Story

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    I don't get it.
    Guest
    I don't get it.

    You feel good about being dumped? Even in a nice manner, it still hurts. Also, why is he calling you directly after five dates? Was there no shadchan involved? I don’t get it.

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    I agree.

    Guys which date for a certain amount of times (say 4-5 dates) and build a relationship should break it off by themselves and Not with the shadchan, it’s a lot more respectful and it gives closure to both sides.

    confusing
    Guest
    confusing

    Everything seems to be so great and there’s so much there and it’s so good,they had to break up?
    Yes. he handled it well and nicely like a gentleman but still,it’s not exactly something to be jumping for joy for…or am i wrong?

    million bucks
    Guest
    million bucks

    Does the writer feel like a million bucks cause the guy ended it in a mentchlik way ? I was hoping to read he would say ” will u marry me ” or whatever the magic words are now a days.
    Sounded to me like a nice shidduch story , but then again , I don’t know them 🙂

    I hope by the time of 33rd omer , the greatest Hilula of all will take place and the Rebbe will be Metzad Hakiddushin

    this is how it should be!
    Guest
    this is how it should be!

    what a mentsch! I hope you will both try to make suggestions for each other.

    This is how it should be. Two people who date, and part ways as mature adults. b”h. So glad you had this experience, and I hope you find another good one soon.

    what a mentch!
    Guest
    what a mentch!

    hard to come by

    Basic Decency
    Guest
    Basic Decency

    EVERYONE should do this. Don’t pass on the ‘dirty work’ to the shadchan after such a long period of time, man (or woman) up and break the news yourself.

    Tutorial for guys
    Guest
    Tutorial for guys

    That need to teach this in Zaal. Or in like and general-how to treat another person. It’s so important. Shkoiach to all those who go out of their way to do this, they make a world of a difference.

    Youd be surprised...
    Guest
    Youd be surprised...

    there are many times a shidduch ends and then he/ she see other people and then realise that that they should have stayed together. Sometimes they do and who knows. the fact that she and he both behaved like real mentchen with respect and no histerics is amazing. I wish them both the best. A rabbi once said that how do you know if a person is right for you. Imagine marrying them, living for a few years and then CH”v getting divorced. If you can imagine the divorce being nasty mean and hostile then you know this person is… Read more »

    Love this
    Guest
    Love this

    Beautifully written.

    Hugs
    Guest
    Hugs

    I’m so sorry that this happened to you. You felt he was right for you but he didn’t. I hope you find someone who appreciates you as much as you appreciate them! Hatzlacha & hugs!

    To 2
    Guest
    To 2

    What relationship do you build after 4 dates??

    beautiful
    Guest
    beautiful

    i can understand why she feels like a queen
    you should see the way some guys end dates
    without any mentchlichkeit at all

    I am so impressed!
    Guest
    I am so impressed!

    #1-I’m sure they had a Shadchan! But once they went out that many times it was the right thing, and very appropriate, for him to end it with her directly.

    I wish I could find out the identities of both these fine people and see if I have any suggestions for them!

    It's the way it should be
    Guest
    It's the way it should be

    After dating a guy several times I had made the decision to break it off. We’ve already been talking on the phone and when I had discussed it with my mashpia he response was “onsite tell the Shadchan it’s not shayach.” I was right away thrown off.. The Shadchan??? We’ve been talking on the phone and everything is nice and dandy and suddenly it comes time to end things.. The Shadchan?? No! I stated this to her and her response “if you think you’re strong enough go ahead:)” well I did. And not to say that it was any less… Read more »

    Open to Suggestions
    Guest
    Open to Suggestions

    Very nice. Maybe it was mutual and that’s why she feels good? Like she liked him but also not for her. OR It gave her hope that there was an actual guy out there for her. After four years of dating myself, I look back at the (very few times) I actually liked someone and instead of discouraging me, it makes me think ahead to know such a standard exists. Nother point: ANyone else find it crazy that she only liked one person after dating four years?! Unfortunately, that is what’s happening across the board. I’m not sure how to… Read more »

    Appreciate this.
    Guest
    Appreciate this.

    So kind of you to share this. Hopefully your words will help others be as respectful and considerate as the young man you were dating. Hatzlacha tho both of you to find your true match imminently

    23 y/o bachur
    Guest
    23 y/o bachur

    Agree 1000%. I think that after the initial date or two all communication should be directly between the two parties. If they’re old enough / mature enough to date and potentially marry, they should be able to handle talking to each other.

    Two Different Things Here
    Guest
    Two Different Things Here

    The point the author is making is very important that there is a mentchlik way of dealing with uncomfortable situations. After so many dates, a direct call with an explanation is REQUIRED. Don’t all of a sudden become frum and ask the shadchan to pass on the bad news. The second point gives me pause as no matter how nice is the method that ends the relationship, there are feelings involved. So I would be very skeptical that this writer feels fine based on the way the news was transmitted. There has to be disappointment and some sadness and that’s… Read more »

    Face to face
    Guest
    Face to face

    If you are going to dump after 5 dates, you do it face to face.

    Good for her. Count her lucky stars.
    Guest
    Good for her. Count her lucky stars.

    I’m guessing it’s because she was treated the way any “normal” human being dating, should have been treated. With maturity, sensitivity, dignity and respect when things didnt necessarily work out after all (for one reason or another).

    Friends as Shadchan
    Guest
    Friends as Shadchan

    Who goes to official shadchonim these days? Me and all my friends will never take a idea from a shadchan. Yes we are all frum some working some collage and most of us either on shelichos or 770 all 60 of us made a pact to only date from friends suggestions or after we actually see or meet the girl personally will be to any research.
    You will see more guys will join!

    confused
    Guest
    confused

    sorry in my day 20 hrs ago this was the norm!
    this guy actually sounds like an idiot for dumping u with all those qualities !
    noch he wanted to hear how u felt .. what , to boost his ego?? sorry I would be feeling like a million buck for a diff reason … sounds like u had a lucky escape!

    You are a Jem He will Come Back
    Guest
    You are a Jem He will Come Back

    From your article it is evident that you are a Jem

    You handled the situation like a total Mentch and more than that with Dignity and Grace

    If he has any taste he will

    Reflect on his course of action
    Not be afraid of commitment
    And he will

    Take
    The
    Plunge

    You are worth it

    Keep saying Tehillim and keep your head up High Darling

    Thumbs Up
    Guest
    Thumbs Up

    I completely relate to your experience – nothing replaces hearing from the person you’re dating directly, in a mentschlich and well thought out manner. There are no questions left in mind or heart when communication is direct. Thanks for sharing and may you blessed with finding your zivug tov speedily!

    Yehuda  l g
    Guest
    Yehuda l g

    Now I know that there are handfuls of really cool and fantastic peoples out there may blessings and success.

    100%
    Guest
    100%

    I agree after a certain amount of dates it’s important to speak to each other and have proper closure like a mentch
    I dated someone for a while and when it was done we spoke for a few minutes wishing each other well

    Who's this girl?
    Guest
    Who's this girl?

    Any girl who calls the guy to end as a mentch- GRAB!

    Not - One - Size - Fits - All
    Guest
    Not - One - Size - Fits - All

    Dear Lady, Thank you so much for having the intelligence and emotional maturity to express your experience so eloquently! May the Aibishter bentch you with tov hanireh v’hanigleh, – specifically with regard to your bashert, b’sha’ah tova u’matzlachas! To be clear, – there are rules about dating. That said, – this is something that the Aibishter gets involved in, – and if a rule isn’t kept and things work out well, – obviously that’s fantastic hashgocha pratis! One of our fundamental rules in dating is that a shadchan is used. The benefits of the shadchan are obvious, – in many… Read more »

    DUMP THE MASHPIAS
    Guest
    DUMP THE MASHPIAS

    This would have been a great shidduch, the masphias are heartless.

    may you find your true basherts very soon
    Guest
    may you find your true basherts very soon

    when hashem sees how people treat each other nicely and respectfully he will definitely grant the both of you a great shidduch for your self’s,
    may both of you have clear blessings in your lives

    is she human?, get real
    Guest
    is she human?, get real

    she acted like a mentsch, he acted like a mentsch, but so ridiculously unreal. I think she should have asked WHY he came to that decision, I think she has the maturity to handle his response, whether or not she agrees that is something else. I don’t believe her for a second that she really feels like a million bucks. maybe in a few days as she comes to accept the situation and moves on. with any loss there is grief and pain, one can move through it quickly, others get stuck – its call being human.. I think this… Read more »

    Wrong perspective
    Guest
    Wrong perspective

    We don’t date. We go out. We don’t have a “relationship.” We meet a suggested individual to see if they are compatible. If all is going well, you continue, if not you stop. There is no “break-up” or getting “dumped.” We are not a couple until we are married. (Once 2 people get engaged there is a certain level of commitment so steps need to be taken to ensure that no one holds ill feelings if it doesn’t work out.) The idea of single young men and women dating, forming relationships and finding closure all come from the goyishe world.… Read more »

    shadchan is essential
    Guest
    shadchan is essential

    One of the main roles of a shadchan is to either let the other party know when proposal is coming or to let know the end of the shidduch. This is done so no party proposes too early and no one feels uncomfortable if their not ready. Most of all if you feel that your not for each other here is where a shadchan is most important to relay the message to the other in a respectful way without giving a reason so the othet person doesnt feel rejected or scarred for life. Rabbi Manis friedman just spoke abt the… Read more »

    rb u
    Guest
    rb u

    reasonable thoughts here.
    myconcern is that our kids need to be educated about how to detect possible personality disorders because it is so hard to detect, and it can have lifetime disaster. its time for us to catch up and protect our kids, not to be in shtetel mentality

    We broke up
    Guest
    We broke up

    After two people dated couple of dates, one of the parties told rabbi manis friedman “we broke up” shocked to hear this expression he asked “broke up what?” There shouldn’t be a personal relationship while dating to the extent that u had to ” break up” when meeting the other person u shouldn’t be sharing too personal info since you’re not sure your marrying the other. As the dates progress things will automatically move to more serious and personal conversations. Still too personal should never be until you know for sure this person will be your spouse. And how do… Read more »

    Clever. He should be a politician
    Guest
    Clever. He should be a politician

    Doesn’t sound the mashpia has anything to do with it. The boy whilst liked lots felt for whatever reason she was not for him so blaming it on the mashpia saved the day.

    misguided
    Guest
    misguided

    He listened to his negative mashpia over his own inclination? What a dope! As I look back, I think how much of a mistake it’s been listening to other people’s opinions. This is so sad.

    #29 is correct 1000%
    Guest
    #29 is correct 1000%

    and there is no substitute for a Shadchan no matter how they both are feeling. Check in with the Shadchan before making that call, see if both sides are ready.
    We go out and we don’t “date” and build “relationships” with girls or guys. Otherwise, things will get messy later on in life when we b”h marry.

    a point
    Guest
    a point

    He does sound like a mentch, that is if he decided not to go through a shadchan and call..I just don’t understand one thing, why did he need to ask her what she felt? Totally unnecessary once it’s over

    Am I the only one?
    Guest
    Am I the only one?

    I would be devastated if this happened to me. I cannot understand everyone who said this is a good idea! It doesn’t seem natural to not be hurt being told this directly.

    #33 is 100% correct
    Guest
    #33 is 100% correct

    this article is terrible advice and i hope no one gets “inspired from it.” we’re not looking to meet people and hopefully like them and then establish a relationship and then get married to them. this is not how bashert works and this outlook destroys lives before they even begin. a shadchan is essential.

    no phones
    Guest
    no phones

    Why are they even talking on the phone? Were they far distance? If not a phone relationship is completely inappropriate unless its to arrange dates

    To #4
    Guest
    To #4

    I by “metzad hakidushim” you mean “mesader kidushin”, then I know what you are talking about 🙂

    When studying Chumash, it would be a good idea to translate each word separately. This will significantly improve your lashon hakodesh.

    Wishing you much success.

    Good experience...
    Guest
    Good experience...

    Realistically, they are just 24 years old on the verge of becoming adults. It’s good that they spoke and had nice experiences. With such young people, it’s nice hearing pleasant dating stories and then just move on. Everyone has stories.

    You are mature and wise
    Guest
    You are mature and wise

    No one knows all the details so no one can judge why it didn’t work out. I’m happy for you that you had a positive experience and that you were both mature about it.
    Thank you for sharing.
    May you have good news soon!

    In my experience
    Guest
    In my experience

    Shadchanim are not these wise sensitive mature all knowing people I’d trust with my life. Many are yentas who know a lot of superficial things about a lot of people but little depth. They pair off people based on these criteria. I.e. Her parents are divorced, his parents are divorced, perfect shidduch! These are people who have no qualms telling you you’ll never get married because you’re overweight or unattractive or whatever. I should trust such people to end a shidduch “sensitively”? One thing I agree with, there’s no “relationship” between dating partners until you decide to get married. But… Read more »

    i would be hurting
    Guest
    i would be hurting

    And i am hurting for this girl. Dating is a long and winded process. Please gd, if this is the guy for u, let him come back, and if not, may the right one find you this month! May it be a month of refua-iyar- for this girl. It hurts so much. But at least it was done nicely:)

    larry
    Guest
    larry

    I find it a little strange that he asked you how you felt what was his point unless he wanted to hear something that would’ve convinced him otherwise to continue dating

    Yes, it may be sad to get dumped, but...
    Guest
    Yes, it may be sad to get dumped, but...

    when someone is a huge mentch about it, and they leave you feeling good about yourself, it makes such a difference. The author said she felt good afterwards NOT because it didn’t work out in the end, but because he did it in such a respectful, kind way – rather than just saying “it’s over” straight out, without any explanations. There’s a way to say something, and then there’s a way NOT to say something, and when something is said right, it makes a huge difference.

    thank you #47
    Guest
    thank you #47

    I am tired of people glorifying shadchanim.Some are dismissive,judgmental,uncaring individuals whom I personally find detestable.If a guy decides not to go along with a girl,sometimes the pompous shadchan also decides to move on.Thank goodness there are some who actually care and take the time to work with singles.The rest can move on themselves and find something productive to do in their lives.No,I am not bitter because my kids are Bh’ fine.

    Major mentch
    Guest
    Major mentch

    And for the girl I hope she ignores all the negative comments here.

    #33
    Guest
    #33

    הרבי פעם מחק מה שמישהו כתב לו “לצאת” ובמקומו כתב “להפגש” למיטב זכרוני. I believe the English equivalent of לצאת is “to go out”. הערה בעלמא

    to #53
    Guest
    to #53

    Please give sources when you quote from my rebbe

    To #22
    Guest
    To #22

    No wonder so many girls are still single!

    oish
    Guest
    oish

    so hard to go thru

    Relationships in dating
    Guest
    Relationships in dating

    I respect Rabbi Friedman fully but don’t know how realistic he is being. When two people are sharing personal things about themselves and spending time together, it does form a relationship. It is obviously on the lower end of the spectrum, but it’s still on the relationship spectrum. So please be realistic with human nature.

    Dear boy in this story
    Guest
    Dear boy in this story

    Please reconsider, seems like you are passing up a jem

    Just a thought
    Guest
    Just a thought

    For all the so called “Realists” stating fantastic concepts such as “In Chabad we don’t go on dates” or “We go out and we don’t “date” and build “relationships” with girls or guys”. The fact of the matter is we do go out on dates and build relationships. Because no matter how chassidish and holy you are, we are still people and have feelings. When people spend time together they develop feelings for each other. Even if they only spent a small amount of time together, if not we would all be sociopaths. And when it comes to ending these… Read more »

    #54
    Guest
    #54

    Its printed in Sharei Shidduchim page ק. The source he brings is Rabbi Shlomo Zarchi

    Don,t agree  with most opinions here
    Guest
    Don,t agree with most opinions here

    I would be left speechless on the phone if after talking casually as usual the boy dropped the not so expected
    BOMB.
    I would feel so hurt, bc u start your conversation reg …
    Think that if the shadchan would call and say not shayich, it would be easier to digest than to hear it straight from the guy.
    It’s like a slap in the face.
    You’re nice….bla, bla, bla, But not for me. Nice excuse! ###
    LIKE USUAL

    Don't get it !
    Guest
    Don't get it !

    Reminds me of a stockbroker the called his client and said ” I have good news and bed news. The good news – all your predictions were correct, the bad news – you lost all your money.”… and the client felt like a million bucks !

    As someone who dated
    Guest
    As someone who dated

    quite a few Bochurim years ago, I am so glad I used the Shadchen for closure. I see no reason whatsoever to hear it directly from either side. In my opinion, that is exactly what a decent Shadchan is for. Maybe girls need to “woman up” and be able to hear it from a Shadchan. A decent Shadchan will know the right words to use. I can’t even imagine being told in a car that it’s not Shayich, and then being in the same car ?!

    Moshe
    Guest
    Moshe

    To #63 hard to find a decent one today who really cares

    Yakov Kirschenbaum
    Guest
    Yakov Kirschenbaum

    BH

    It’s okay to use a shadchan for the break-up.

    The way this bochur did it was better though – more gentlemanly. The girl felt respected and heard and was teated with dignity. Kol hakavod to the bochur. May he and this girl both find their basherts extremely soon.

    Shadchan friend
    Guest
    Shadchan friend

    Many times the shadchan is just a friend of one of the families not an official shadchan. This friend is the go-between and often they do a caring and sensitive job because they personally know one of the sides. Even though they aren’t professionals they handle the situation with sensitivity trying to understand both sides. So maybe more people should consider using wise friends to go between the dating couple.

    Different opinions, different people
    Guest
    Different opinions, different people

    I think it all boils down to mentchlichkeit, thoughtfulness and sensitivity. If you are the one breaking it up, think about how the other would like to hear it. Some people like to avoid stressful and emotional situations. Other people would prefer to face whatever’s coming head-on. Every person has their own style.

    Please think about what is the least painful way for that particular individual to receive your message. Because we’re people and not machines, there will be many exceptions to any rule about what works best for us.

    What ?
    Guest
    What ?

    so whats a shadchan for?

    break up?
    Guest
    break up?

    Im pretty sure most people who read their conversation are wondering why they broke up. they talked about how wonderful they were and how much they respected each other. if he felt so strongly wouldn’t you think his mashpia would suggest they continue a few more times? its not often that there is so much good feeling why not pursue it/ i worry about some of the mashpiam! so difficult to create a good relationship why squander the opportunity

    spell check
    Guest
    spell check

    the word GEM is spelled G-E-M. Not jem.
    I know I know has nothing to do with anything but I just saw three different people misspell it…

    @70
    Guest
    @70

    The confusion is because of the chabad videos JEM puts out, but that’s misspelled for a REASON: it’s an acronym for Jewish Educational Media

    Interested
    Guest
    Interested

    If someone is potentially interested in dating you, how would they go about it?

    Not for everyone
    Guest
    Not for everyone

    As others said, I will say again. This is not for everyone. This is not necessary right. Please don’t push our society to be more like the goyim, we are different for a reason. Menchlichkit is menchlichkit, but having a emotional conversation with someone who is not your bashert is not necessary right. Shadchanim are in the system for a reason. And if both parties appreciate that it’s not Ill-mannered to use them. Take advantage of the borders we have, they are put in place by truely wise ppl.

    Be a mentsch
    Guest
    Be a mentsch

    I was engaged to a guy and he decided to take a break. A week later the shadchan told me it was off. The guy said it was not tzmius to call me to break it off?????? I am married to the most amazing person and thank Hashem every day.

    Some people are not meant to be married!

    to #22
    Guest
    to #22

    You made a pact?? Most of my kids got married through Shadchanim, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to make a pact! Sometimes the shliach is the shadchan -be open minded and not rule anything out!!

    Sounds like bad advise
    Guest
    Sounds like bad advise

    Sounds like this guy got bad advice from his Mashpia. You sound like a nice girl.

    To # 72
    Guest
    To # 72

    Are you talking about dating this girl who wrote the article??
    Or in general?

    Agree with number 1
    Guest
    Agree with number 1

    gotta agree with everyone else commenting about the lack of the shadchan. not sure who’s stupid idea it was for people dating to start texting and calling each other directly but it’s highly inappropriate and downright foolish. I don’t know of a single case where exchanging numbers didn’t lead to problems even when the couple eventually did get married.

    To 30
    Guest
    To 30

    How do you know mashpia is heartless? Perhaps there were irreconcilable differences that would render marriage toxic before it even began. Better to waste a few emotions and dollars on dates, than what happens when there is a divorce…

    I am still not over a guy I shidduch dated a few years ago...
    Guest
    I am still not over a guy I shidduch dated a few years ago...

    I shidduch dated someone a few years ago and we went on many dates. We really connected and then he left me and until today I am not over it and I am still not married. I am so impressed that this guy called you on the phone and that you got closure(at least I hope you did) because I never got closure and until today I am hurting and wondering why this has to happen. He was the only guy I ever liked and I never thought that a frum guy would ever hurt me that much especially because… Read more »

    so much confusion. PLEASE , singles, use a dating coach.
    Guest
    so much confusion. PLEASE , singles, use a dating coach.

    they will save you time, money, heartache, disappointment , and in many cases, the fate of singlehood. not at 25 or 27 when it’s “fun” to be single, but when you are 30,35,40 and up – lonely and desperate.

    He's a FOOL
    Guest
    He's a FOOL

    Number 18 is very correct! Also this girl is a GEM his LOSS! A FOOL!

    @74
    Guest
    @74

    Dont feel lonely the same thing happened to me, just that the girl was the one taking the. Break, after3weeks time 🙂

    Strange
    Guest
    Strange

    Why is his mashpia deciding after 5 (!!!) dates for them to break it off? Something’s weird. Let him decide on his own. Really strange.

    No, you don’t need a dating coach. We need sanity. Stop with stus, and start living…get married already!

    X