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Friday, 29 Kislev, 5782
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Dr. Rosen Asks: Expel Students

Dr. Eli Rosen asked principals of Crown Heights schools to expel students that are not vaccinated against the mumps. Articles in Nshei Newsletter were misleading, he said. Full Story, Photos

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September 7, 2017 1:19 pm

Pre-vaccine days were the days when children were dying young, ending up with problems like Helen Keller’s, and begging Hashem that their affected child, loi aleinu, should not only get better, but should also not affect other members of the household. As they were introduced to the public, each newly discovered vaccine was seen as a gift from Hashem. It is incontrovertible that the percentage of negative reactions to vaccines ( and nobody is denying that , unfortunately, there are bound to be an EXTREMELY minuscule number of such reactions) is absolutely negligible when compared to the lives and health… Read more »

Fake Media
June 22, 2017 1:39 am

Where are you all getting your information – from the fake media? Just because what you read was printed on the internet doesn’t mean its backed up by proven scientific evidence. Dr. Rosen doesn’t need internets fake and hyped up sensational media, to garner information. He reads the scientific and medical journals. BTW my son contracted a mild case of chicken pox right before they came out with the innoculations. After a few days, the disease entered his nervous system. He couldn’t walk and was home for 6 weeks. If he would’ve received the vaccine, it wouldn’tve entered his nervous… Read more »

Stop Critisizing
March 10, 2010 5:47 am

First of all, thank you #56. You are absolutely right!

Why is everyone critisizing Dr. Rosen? He knows a LOT more than you and you don’t know anything! I don’t live in CH but I find this ridiculous. If you are so argumentative then go and move to Antartica

from a mommy
March 9, 2010 6:25 pm
totally agree with 110 and 113
March 9, 2010 4:41 pm

theres no point in argueing with regards to the medical aspect because the dude obviously knows alot more than any of you so just stop kidding yourselves. with regards to his decision hes ultimately the guy whos got to deal with it all and hes undebatably one of the top doctors in CH he should have the right to make these decisions especially since anyone whos met dr. rosen knows how dedicated he is to the shchuna and hes obviously doing it for everyones own good. regarding all the links people put up against vaccinations do you honestly think by… Read more »

a few facts
March 9, 2010 7:41 am

As a college student who wrote a paper on autism, and with a wife who work with special needs children (specifically autistic) i consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about vaccines and (ex) Dr wakenfield. Firstly, id be a little suspicious about some who published a report when 10 out of the 12 scientist who wrote the report with him retracted their statements. Even if there was merit to his claims the entire study was over the effects of thiomersal which is a perservative for the vaccine. however they haven’t used thiomersal as a preservative in the vaccines for many years. and… Read more »

Mumps outbreak in NY/NJ
March 9, 2010 6:04 am

the CDC said 88 percent had gotten at least one vaccine dose, 75 percent had two doses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100211/ap_on_he_me/us_med_mumps_outbreak_2

another issue....
March 9, 2010 5:33 am

I was vacinated as a child against measles – and ended up coming down with it when I was 14 , many of the kids who recieved it at that time also did. The docotor explained that sometimes the vaccine is weak and doesn’t block the disease.
Just something to think about as well.

THE TORAH BELIEVES IN MEDICINE?
March 9, 2010 4:34 am

NO IT DOES NOT … The Torah does NOT BELIEVE IN MEDICINE …
THE TORAH BELIEVES IN OUR CHOOSING OUR OWN HEALTH MOSHPIA IN WHOM WE BELIEVE … EVEN THE HYPOCRATIC OATH IS BASED ON THE FACT THAT IT IS THE BELIEF OF THE PATIENT IN HIS CHOSEN HEALTH MOSHPIA THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SETTING THE STAGE FOR HIS BODY’S OWN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO HEAL HIS BODY … IT IS NOT THE MEDICINE THAT HEALS HIM !!!

concerned
March 8, 2010 3:36 pm
To #35 the DC
March 8, 2010 2:29 pm

I am sorry to Mr. #35 but a Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C. or DC) is an academic degree for chiropractic providers not a medical degree. Adjusting someones back doesn’t qualify you to make decisions on Vaccines.

homopathic medicine-serel maness
March 8, 2010 1:42 pm

a lic dr. who know homopathic medinice would be able attend to a person who has been afficted these known dieases and other. some people say we’re in the middle of redemption and some say that’s it’s here,l’m in kling to say that both are right,as we are totally depended on the holy one bless be he,l’ve had my experiences both ways,there are times when l feel the abitshter is telling me what needs to be done,as l’ve back this up with the nutritionist that l’m using.we are truely depended on the abitshter.look at what’s happening around us. we do… Read more »

solution
March 8, 2010 10:48 am

sounds like there are so many children that are not getting vaccinated. Why don’t we solve the problem by having a seperate school for them. Might make the world a safer, healthier place.

A TRUE TZADDIK
March 8, 2010 3:08 am

SO MANY BOYS BECOME INFERTILE FROM MUMPS. YOU SAVE YOUR OWN CHILDREN WITH THE VACCINE

G-d alone knows
March 7, 2010 6:04 pm

Every morning after I send my kids on their way, I re-enter my slightly calmer house and I raise my eyes heavenwards and ask G-d to take good care of the amazing kids he blessed me with. Well, most days I don’t exactly remember to actually raise my eyes heavenwards and on some days I don’t even make the time to have much of a chat with G-d at all, but not so deep down I know that it is all in His hands. When it comes to my kids health I’m all for doing the research, yet it doesn’t… Read more »

To #10
March 7, 2010 6:30 am

You are not that smart. Just because you know a little bit about some medical ethics, it does not mean your hypothesis makes any sense! It is only because the general public uses their common sense and vaccinates, that other people, like you, even have a chance to remain healthy while unvaccinated! Most doctors, Dr. Rosen included, know a little bit more than you about the dangers of being unvaccinated than you think you do. Go through 8 years of medical school and then you have the right to talk the nonsense that you are.

How foolish
March 7, 2010 5:07 am

#149. yes we had these diseases 40 years ago. I have a friend who was blind and several very handicapped people whose mothers had German Measels. We won;t even mention polio. maybe we should all go back to the Middle ages when people died from pnuemonia and diseases that are treatable today. There are people who are severely allergic to antibiotics, Maybe we should stop those also? Wait till a pregnant woman has Rubella ( Chas V’ShaloM) then we will hear a different story. The people I spoke to whose kids had reactions to vaccines are alive and healthy today.… Read more »

WATCH THIS!
March 7, 2010 4:58 am

If you want to hear from TOP DOCTORS on both sides of this issue:
It’s extremely informative!

click on “replay webcast”:
http://www.dienviro.com/index1.aspx?BD=19020

We must RESPECT our DOCTORS
March 7, 2010 4:26 am

I am not saying that ANY doctor is “wrong”.

But it is absolute certain 100% that every doctor who gives shots is a nogeah bedavar financially and therefore I say that we must RESPECT OUR DOCTORS but “Kabdehu Vechashdehu” because everyone is a nogeah bedavar – it is part of everyones human nature.

Medicne is a "Money Making BUISNESS" - it is not some kind of Mivtzaim or a "Chesed"
March 7, 2010 4:25 am

Does anyone think that ANY doctor who sees clients until midnight does so for “MIVTZOIM” purposes or because he has so much Ahavas Yisroel to work “for free” or is he making $50 to $75 per doctors visit which equals several hundred dollars per hour and several THOUSAND dollars per day seeing clients and giving them shots.

Can anyone assume that someone making thousands and thousands of dollars per day and per week giving shots is not a neogeah bedavar?

Who controls the info in all Medical Journals?
March 7, 2010 4:23 am

Does anyone think that the Pharmaceutical industry which controls whats gets printed in medical journals is going to allow disseminating information which proves that vaccines are outright harmful and dangerous?

Nogeah Bedavar
March 7, 2010 4:22 am

Let’s not forget that every doctor is a Nogeah Bedavar because every doctor and the medical establishment as whole and the Pharmaceutical industry in particular makes BILLIONS of dollars on everyone vaccinated.

Hashochad Yeaver Eyeney CHACHOMIM.

Shochad makes blind not the “wise” people those who who know and those who understand and those who are “experts” get blinded by money and this money runs in the countless BILLIONS of dollars.

CDC admits possibility of Autism and Vaccines
March 7, 2010 3:32 am

“There is some evidence that the critical period for developing ASDs occurs before birth. However, concerns about vaccines and infections have led researchers to consider risk factors before and after birth.” http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/facts.html Regarding DR Wakefield: There are two subsequent studies that back up Dr. Wakefield’s case study, which was more hypothesis than conclusion. I speak of “Digestive Diseases and Sciences, Vol. 45, No. 4 (April 2000), pp. 723–729 Detection and Sequencing of Measles Virus from Peripheral Mononuclear Cells from Patients with Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Autism” and “Neuropsychobiology 2005;51:77–85 Published online: February 28, 2005 Dysregulated Innate Immune Responses in Young… Read more »

don't use the mikvah?
March 7, 2010 3:26 am

wow, WHERE do you people get your information? what a hoot, i can’t stop laughing (and sighing) over the utter ignorance. i used to be like that too, till we had vaccine reactions and we started researching the other side. seriously, yidden, it ain’t black and white by any means.

a mother of a child that was vaccinated and got mumps
March 7, 2010 2:47 am

my son was vaccinated and he go the mumps beacause of all the smart people who did not vaccinate let all the parents who do not want ot vacccinate open up their own boys and girls schools let them call it the “non vaccinated Lubavitch boys or girls school” teachers can only be teachers if you weren’t vaccinated that would make everyone happy and please don not use the mikvoth if you are not vaccinated.

take a chill pill
March 7, 2010 1:06 am

non-vaxers are not attacking Dr. Rosen personally just as one would hope Dr. Rosen is not attacking them personally. people cna have different points of view w/o being so crude and rude. why the vitriole

It's not all about autism
March 6, 2010 7:39 pm

There are many factors in why someone might choose not to vaccinate their child. Autism is only one of the concerns. If Dr. Rosen is concerned about those who choose not to vaccinate, why doesn’t he address their worries? Why doesn’t he talk openly about the vaccine injuries he has seen, and why he considers mumps worse than those? Why doesn’t he talk about the ingredients and preservatives in the shot, and why he doesn’t consider them harmful? Bullying parents into making a decision they feel is unsafe for their child is JUST PLAIN WRONG. A nice statistic to give… Read more »

Government: exclude unvaccinated children from schools
March 6, 2010 7:24 pm

“State and local health departments also have worked with affected schools to enhance vaccination policies, including policies to exclude unvaccinated children from school during outbreaks and to isolate children at home for 5 days after onset of parotitis. This outbreak emphasizes that mumps outbreaks can occur in highly vaccinated populations. Although several factors play a role in mumps control in the United States (Box), maintenance of high 2-dose MMR vaccine coverage remains the most effective way to prevent and limit the size of mumps outbreaks.” from cdc.gov

Major side effects
March 6, 2010 7:18 pm

I was on the phone with my daughter after she read this article. She told me that her next door neighbor’s child could not walk for a day after receiving a vaccination. I myself had an experience with one of my children after receiving a vaccination had slurred speech. Another child was also effected through receiving a vaccination. These are two examples that i know about personally that are different then autism.. So with my last few children I have chosen not to vaccinate. Alternative Doctors (many more then the one that has written on this site.) explain the dangers… Read more »

NYC vaccine didn't work
March 6, 2010 7:10 pm

There was obviously something wrong with the batch of vaccines sent to NYC if the ones who were VACCINATED got the mumps. They should have been immuned to mumps if the vaccine had worked.

these questions need to be investigated:
March 6, 2010 6:44 pm

1. Read about what happened with the mumps vaccine campaign in Suriname. The virus was not adequately attenuated and so the vaccine CAUSED a major mumps outbreak. DId that happen here? 2. Read about how live vaccines (such as mumps vaccine) SHED after vaccination, and how that causes additional exposure to the virus, because people DO NOT KNOW THIS and they DO NOT STAY HOME after vaccination (for several days, or longer…. who does that??). Are the bochurim who are getting mumps RECENTLY vaccinated… and/or are they kids whose early vaccines have worn off so they are in effect NOT… Read more »

There is far too much hatred in the comments
March 6, 2010 6:32 pm

Bottom line is that there is no definite conclusion as to whether the vaccines cause other illnesses or autism, yet there is no proof either that they did not. That is why #5 had the best proposal of allowing parents to delay certain vaccines that are purported to have negative health related impacts, at a point when it can already be determined whether the child is autistic, etc or not Obviously we trust our Doctors on almost anything, but we are allowed to seek other opinion, thus the famous answers of the Rebbe of following the advice of a Rofeh… Read more »

Great Idea!
March 6, 2010 6:12 pm

To all those who are against vax:
OPEN YOUR OWN SCHOOLS AND GET YOUR OWN DRS!
Dr Rosen is an incredible doctor who has SAVED COUNTLESS LIVES IN CH!!!

Law Student, to # 118
March 6, 2010 5:52 pm

Woops, sorry to break it to you, but you’re woefully wrong. I hope you file suit when your kids are IYH thrown out of school for your failing to comply with the most basic understanding of kol yisroel areivim zeh l’zeh.

we had the mumps. wasn't a bad thing.
March 6, 2010 5:34 pm

with education, it wasn’t scary.
if you want to be honest do some real research. read the book by dr. fredderik klenner. i’m sure there are other good ones, that one is a classic though. vitamin c till bowel tolerance is crucial.
i’m sure dr. rosen is a great guy. i wonder though if he is one of those that refuses to believe that there might be more than one right way.

interesting.
March 6, 2010 5:23 pm

it is my observation that the fear regarding this issue comes from those who do immunize. ??

pray
March 6, 2010 3:29 pm

there is no 100 percent safe way. vaccinating has risks (and yes there are patients of dr rosen who have been damaged by vaccines I have no idea why he has chosen to have selective amnesia about them)
and there are certainly risks to not vaccinating as well
so choose your set of risks and pray
there is no 100 percent safe way to keep kids healthy

note to 38, 46, and dr rosen
March 6, 2010 3:16 pm

attention #38: you definitely have a future in medicine, i can tell just by the way your mind works.
attention #46: thank you, many applaud you for what you wrote
att dr. rosen: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. (George Orwell)
i just emailed the nshei and got all the letters (there were no articles) sent to me, they spread over four issues and are very interesting and two-sided, in other words both sides of the debate are presented. free press did its job well.

Mumps does NOT cause infertility
March 6, 2010 3:07 pm

http://www.livestrong.com enter “mumps” in search box. “Orchitis (inflamation of testicles) does not cause infertility in adolescent boys and adult males.” By no means do I entirely approve of vaccines. I wonder why the mumps vaccine has not provided immunity to the immunized. And I dont believe that sharing a cup or getting a third booster will make a difference. I believe that perhaps more research must be done by a PhD about the nature of the virus and an appropriate antidote/immunization. An immunization or method of preventing further outbreaks should be found – there is no reason for people to… Read more »

attention
March 6, 2010 3:02 pm

When you choose a Dr. for your family the intelligent thing to do would be to trust them to guide you and your family correctly. If you don’t have faith you shouldn’t be using the practice. Many of us have concerns even though we choose to vaccinate. We all need to think about this TIGHT community as a whole!!!!!!!!! Think about how your decisions affect others!

Mumps !
March 6, 2010 2:47 pm

It is very nice of you that you called all of the Principals in Brooklyn for a meeting about the Mumps

serel maness
March 6, 2010 2:31 pm

there are many pros and cons on this issue of vac, but did you know that there are homeopath just for these diseases?this knowledge came from an n.d dr. a real one.if we were a team and able to get the child to a dr. as soon as possible then we would be o.k. this medicine should only be practiced by a lic dr. an m.d. would be fine,but we not a team.unfortunate today ther is a high subpected that the shots are causing cancer and other diseases that are subpose to protect. l wish to point out somethng no… Read more »

CDC admits possibility of Autism and Vaccines
March 6, 2010 2:22 pm

“There is some evidence that the critical period for developing ASDs occurs before birth. However, concerns about vaccines and infections have led researchers to consider risk factors before and after birth.” http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/facts.html Regarding DR Wakefield: There are two subsequent studies that back up Dr. Wakefield’s case study, which was more hypothesis than conclusion. I speak of “Digestive Diseases and Sciences, Vol. 45, No. 4 (April 2000), pp. 723–729 Detection and Sequencing of Measles Virus from Peripheral Mononuclear Cells from Patients with Inflammatory Bowel Disease and Autism” and “Neuropsychobiology 2005;51:77–85 Published online: February 28, 2005 Dysregulated Innate Immune Responses in Young… Read more »

brother not get it
March 6, 2010 2:01 pm

My brother, who was never immunized did not get the mumps, while EVERY BOY SITTING AT HIS TABLE IN YESHIVA GOT IT, AND THEY WERE ALL IMMUNIZED!! They are all in their twenties.

Go make sense of this!

Obvious Questions!!!! PLEASE THINK!
March 6, 2010 1:58 pm

According to the Doctors and Medical professionals, all vaccines don’t last for more than several years. Even Dr. Rosen says there should be three MMR vaccines because they wear off.

Therefore, by that logic, i.e. that vaccines wear off, ALL adults are technically unvaccinated. So, don’t we already have a HUGE unvaccinated population and hasn’t it been that way for DECADES. Isn’t this true???

Also, the boy who brought mumps to the states was a vaccinated individual from England. How does that fit into unvaccinated children being dangerous when this STARTED with a vaccinated individual from England spreading this disease?

inform yourself
March 6, 2010 1:54 pm

For those who believe that Dr Wakefield lost his license due to unethical behavior, please view this powerful interview on CBS news: http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/10/cbs-newss-sharyl-attkisson-interviews-dr-andrew-wakefield.html

Response to #103 ("The Rebbe's View")
March 6, 2010 1:51 pm

You should read the posts before you comment.

see posts 46, 107 and 108

I am shocked
March 6, 2010 1:34 pm

I am very shocked of how people can speak bad of a person. I understand you want to vent about the pros or cons with vaccines. Dr Rosen is a very good doctor and is very caring person. Where is the achdus or ahavas yisrael? Consider the feelings of others.

thank you dr. rosen,
March 6, 2010 1:34 pm

…for really caring and being so dedicated to our wellbeing.
why dont we have a public session/debate for all us confused young moms…?

Private Schools
March 6, 2010 1:29 pm

Private Schools are subject to NY State Law, same as public schools. Private Schools are NOT ALLOWED to make their own vaccine standards. I called the Dept of Health on Friday to make sure. See for yourself, and call them too.

It is ILLEGAL for private schools to not accept immunization exemptions. ILLEGAL.

happy
March 6, 2010 1:23 pm

DR ROSEN THANK YOU . And for parent they are so many stupid one how many send their kids to school when their kids are SICK and dont care for the other kids who will get sick because they are SELFISH and what to hang out and not babysit their kids.

Ignorant women?
March 6, 2010 1:21 pm

Chas v’shalom. What terrible machlokes and exposing your own ignorance! How many times have I been right about my children’s health and my own…versus the doctors. The medical establishment has failed me so many times, that I hate to even go to a doctor. All you people raging about natural healing, it’s true you need to go to someone yiras shamayim, and make sure the person isn’t involved in avoda zara…but worshipping the medical establishment to the point of dangerous ignorance ain’t nothing to shrug off either. Also, many of these natural remedies are things that Hashem created within nature… Read more »

Chana
March 5, 2010 10:10 pm

For all those asking why people who are vaccinated get the mumps. The answer is quite simple. A barrier against any disease only works if everyone is vaccinated it does not protect you once there is a breakou rather it prevents the outbreak from occuring in the first place. Someone who is vaccinated is just as likely to get the mumps as someone who is not vaccinated. therefore, when you make a decision not to vaccinate your child you are actually risking the lives of other people in the community. YOUR child may not suffer but another persons child may.… Read more »

A note from Anya (gives credibility to the post? I hope? ) To Assur and Lies , likes, more lies.
March 5, 2010 1:28 pm

I have lived in CH for many many years. I have many relatives who are respectived members of the community and as a matter of fact attended the meeting that was led by Dr. Rosen. I left the community years ago, for various reasons and I remain to be traditional…and pretty interested in health and education. I may not be the best expert as it comes to Hashem and the Rebbe (re: Assur) but I do want to address a generalization which most people will agree upon: you gotta be healthy before you can do everything according to frumkeit. The… Read more »

just stop!
March 5, 2010 10:01 am

to #20. ya, that makes a lot of sense comparing this to yellow arm bands! do you here what your saying?!! Doctor Rosen has served ch for thirty years without ever using his power for the wrong things, or doing things for his personal agenda! to say that the doc would do this for money is pure nonsense, some ideas are so above that! start using your brains people and listen to those who know more then you, and who only want the best for the rebbes shchuna!

an amazing doctor
March 5, 2010 10:01 am

i am the mother of a special needs child – and i choose to vaccinate -along with dr. rosen. if you trust your doctor with all your medical issues,then u can trust him when he says not having your child vaccinated can do more harm then good. i dont live in crown heights anymore and really miss dr. rosen. he is an amazing dr., and an amazing support when facing challanges of having a special needs child.

morons
March 5, 2010 9:11 am

expel all the students who do get vaccinations

One Jew = three opinions
March 5, 2010 9:08 am

here is how the problem works: The same people that listen to Dr. Rosen when it comes issues of life and death because they trust that he is a better expert in the field that they are because he has been in the field for 30 whatever years, these same people when it comes to vaccines suddenly claim to know better than the doctor because they read in article in neshai or somewhere else. I’m sure doctor Rosen has read all the big articles on vaccines that you read plus many others that you haven’t and is MUCH more equipped… Read more »

Big Business
March 5, 2010 9:04 am

Vaccines are big business and everything looks like a nail when you’re a hammer.

Educator
March 5, 2010 9:04 am

The law clearly states that private schools may determine for themselves how to handle non-inoculated students. They may be more stringent than the sate but not less. I remeber the polio epidemic. We were not allowed to go anywhere but school and homefor 2 years.Our parents cried with joy whenDr Salk invented the vaccine. If a women contract Rubella( german measles) during the first three months of pregnancy, the rate of serious birth defects is sky high. The reaction that a very few childrenhave to vaccines does not come close to death or permanent disabilty. The Dr’s and Yeshivas are… Read more »

response to #89
March 5, 2010 8:48 am

I would also call to your attention again the Rebbe’s letter that I mention cautioning against antibiotics. I believe that letter was from the early 1960s.

So let me ask you: what did Lubavitchers do during the 40s and 50s? They obviously took anti-biotics. Yet based on more current medical research in the 1960s, the Rebbe began to caution against it.

response to #89
March 5, 2010 8:40 am

I suggest you re-read my post, as the answers to your questions are already included within it. But here they are again, to make it easy for you: 1) The Rebbe’s letters only speak about the Polio vaccine. Therefore, the Rebbe’s words can only be used to argue in favor of the Polio vaccine — nothing else. (each vaccine is different you know…) 2) As far as what Lubavitchers did in the 70s, 80s and 90s: the research about the potential dangers of vaccines only came to light (at least to the public) after Gimmel Tammuz. So there is no… Read more »

to #92
March 5, 2010 8:39 am

I’m really shocked at your ignorance. Personally, I can’t understand how people simply don’t even THINK FOR THEMSELVES. ever research vaccines, epidurals, food coloring, preservatives, chemicals in your shampoo, diapers, and wipes? or only your car, your camera, and your clothes?

Voodoo=avoda zora
March 5, 2010 8:22 am

New age health nonsense = avoda zora
it’s the same thing! The torah believes in medicince. V’rapo yirape. New age hippies move to berkely. Stop sickening our kids!

The Rebbe's view
March 5, 2010 8:21 am

Its interesting to note that the Rebbe sayd many times that we should go by the advice of compitant doctors – especially a Rofei Yedid. Also, the Rebbe mentions many times that we don’t need to dealve deeply into medical issues, just consult an expert docter (and yedid) and follow his instructions – Hashem will do the rest (see Ig”K vol 9 pp272, vol 5 pp158) Here is a letter from the rebbe regarding this issue in particular (Ig”k vol 11 pp137-8): במענה על מכתבו מעש”ק, בו שואל אודות הזריקות 0איינשפריצונגען) שעושים עתה לילדים קטנים, איך ינהג בזה. הנה בכגון… Read more »

I don't get it
March 5, 2010 8:09 am

If most of the people getting the mumps got the shot, why would not getting vaccinated cause this outbreak? Seems to me the problem is that the vaccines are not providing immunity. Those who don’t vaccinate risk their own children contracting the diseases, but those who do vaccinate should be immune- that seems like the issue here. Anyway articles in major newspapers said that the outbreak is in areas where the majority of the population is vaccinated, and said dr’s don’t know why people are getting the mumps if they were already vaccinated. And what’s the big excitement anyway? Almost… Read more »

DO NOT BE FOOLED ... DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
March 5, 2010 8:02 am

Just as the ignorant masses buy into the lies put forth by the propaganda machine against Israel … so too the ignorant masses buy into the lies put forth by the propaganda machine against Natural Healing … DO NOT BE FOOLED … DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

the law
March 5, 2010 8:02 am

that is rubbish. it is illegal to expel students with an exemption from public school.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS MAY DO AS THEY PLEASE. they can create their own rules, including requiring vaccinations.

in addition, this headline is terribly misleading. dr. rosen does not suggest expelling. he suggests only accepting students who are vaccinated, for the sake of the klal and protecting the majority of the population.

i got vaccinated
March 5, 2010 7:58 am

and i still got the mumps

Rabbi Schwei says "Dina Demalchus Dina"
March 5, 2010 7:57 am

According to Rabbi Schwei’s Dina Demalchusa Dina – Our “Dina Demalchusa PASKENS that every parent has free choice to listen to those medical professionals who are against immunizations.

Don't be Hypnotized
March 5, 2010 7:56 am

Hate? Do not let the political propoganda machine hypnotize you into thinking that the matter is black and white … To the uninformed … it may appear so … but case in point … there are cases on the books where polio patients died after pharmaceuticals were administered … while their counterparts who were treated with Homeopathic Remedies actually RECOVERED!!!

Shtusim
March 5, 2010 7:55 am

Rosen speaks Shtusim, he is obviously wrong. You don’t need to be a rocket scientists to see that 2 + 2 = 4 Instead of Rosen being “red in the face” that his immunizations obviously is not working, instead he wants more immunization business? Remember a few months ago everyone thought that “the world is coming to an end” because they “feared” swine flue was going to affect the entire world and therefore these BIG CHACHOMIM “doctors” wanted to immunize BILLIONS in the entire Israel and USA and the whole world. It was a “mazal” that they could not get… Read more »

PROOF
March 5, 2010 7:40 am

Fact that the majority who got mumps WERE vaccinated proves the vaccination does NOT WORK period. If not being vaccinated makes you more vulnerable AT ALL then all or most of the 200 parents (10 Kids each = 2,000 children) THEY should be in the majority with mumps!. Proof that Rosen is WRONG is that the 200 parents without vaccination were NOT affected and those who were immunized WERE affected. Maybe immunization CAUSES you to get mumps because statistics of mumps is MUCH higher among those who were vaccinated vs those who opted out of vaccination. As for Rabbi Schwei’s… Read more »

oy!
March 5, 2010 7:39 am

why should we get the community into such a big fight?

Called Dept of Health today!
March 5, 2010 7:38 am

According to both NY and US LAW, a school, no matter how private it is, must accept religious and medical exemptions.

THAT IS DINA D’MALCHUSA DINA! Be careful!

One things for sure...
March 5, 2010 7:26 am

I will bli neder not do a shidduch with a non-vaxer.

Also, to those that want to know why kids that were vaccinated were getting the mumps, look up the term herd immunity.

VACCINES vs. DRUG FREE TREATMENTS
March 5, 2010 7:07 am

VACCINES & PHARMACUETICALS LOWER IMMUNITY IN INDIVIDUALS & IN WHOLE POPULATIONS … WHEREAS NATURAL TREATMENTS BOLSTER IMMUNITY IN ALL

CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE
March 5, 2010 7:02 am

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny reports the data … and demonstrates CONCLUSIVELY that … vaccines were NOT the deciding factor in the reduction of epidemics in the past … not here and not around the world … that quarantines and other factors were responsible … NOT THE VACCINATING OF WHOLE POPULATIONS …

to #46
March 5, 2010 6:57 am

You write, “All the letters you mention are from the 1950s! How can you even dare to assume what the Rebbe would say about vaccines today?! ” That’s precisely what the Reform Jews say, i.e. if the Rabbis knew what modern life was like, they would agree that things have to be different. How do you dare assume what the Rabbis would say today? they ask. Shame on Lubavitchers who dismiss what the Rebbe said by saying it’s outdated! The Rebbe’s letters about vaccines are from the 1950’s you say. And what did Chassidim do about vaccinating in the 60’s,… Read more »

KIDDUSH CUP NOT THE CAUSE
March 5, 2010 6:55 am

silver disinfects all … and i mean all microbes … check it out … (check out … dr. gordon pederton, m.d. and his silversol patent dvd) … so do be sure to drink your kiddush wine … straight from the sterling kiddush cup … and have no fear … as hashem provides the cure before the plague …!!!

to the dummy living in the dark ages
March 5, 2010 6:52 am

you obviously know better than my doctor, something youre accusing me of. so if we arent on board with YOUR doctor, we should go to an alternative country and be quarantined. how nazi gernmany of you. i bet you feed your kids msg for breakfast too, well because dr rosen never said it causes any damage. and a little sugar never killed anyone. i never saw anywhere in any published medical journal that kids died from junk food.

to #76
March 5, 2010 6:46 am

yes i do know a yeshiva bochur who got the mumps and was NOT vaccinated.

It only takes brains
March 5, 2010 6:39 am

We all have brains and each can make decisions for ourselves after reading up on an issue. A simple look at NY state law would show you that there is no law to vaccinate. None whatsoever. The reason is because the state does not want to be responsible for vaccine injuries and vaccine deaths. For those who don’t know, there exists a vaccine claim court where the government pays the parents of vaccine-damaged children. Dr. Rosen knows about the vaccine court and I’m sure he knows NY state law. He is doing this for one reason only: INTIMIDATION. Will YOU… Read more »

Fix your nutrition too
March 5, 2010 6:34 am

To all parents who do vaccinate, consider improving your kids’ nutrition if you’re SO CONCERNED about their well-being. The glut of intake of sugar, refined foods, chemical additives, preservatives, and food coloring has decreased the well-being of everyone. Did you know that food coloring is made from petroleum, paper waste products, and more? Ever think about that one? If you really researched AND you believe vaccines are right, that’s your CHOICE and I respect it. But hey, maybe you should look into those food products too.

to #80
March 5, 2010 6:23 am

“We hate you” ??? Wow. That is a strong statement of ignorance. I don’t hate you because you vaccinate. I respect your right to choose and I researched. Did you go beyond Kingston Ave or not? Did you look into it or not? My guess is not, don’t fool yourself. First out of the schools chas v’shalom, then out of the community and country chas v’shalom!? Yellow arm badges comment is right, Hashem have mercy. Wow, go out and actually research instead of SPREADING HATRED AND IGNORANCE.

to #78
March 5, 2010 6:16 am

Wrong! How many people do you see living to 100 plus years, may we all be good and healthy! Sanitation has LOTS to do with it, vaccines are extremely dangerous.

response to #77
March 5, 2010 6:14 am

So you agree that sanitation issues (mikveh, yeshiva dorms, sharing cups at farbrengenes, etc.) could be the source of the mumps problem in crown heights — not unvaccinated kids.

to #63
March 5, 2010 6:13 am

And you’re saying that your doctor advises against vaccinations?!

I am LIVING IN THE DARK AGES. Take your alternative medicines, make an alternative school and please settle in your alternative country. WE HATE YOU FOR SPREADING DISEASES!

Quarantine these people and let’s see what happens with their health…

DR. SHERRI J. TENPENNY - VACCINES DVD
March 5, 2010 6:10 am

Dr. Sherri J. Tenpenny is a true expert on vaccines … VACCINES is the title of her DVD … P L E A S E … check it out for yourself.

not vaccinating is ignorance and misinformation
March 5, 2010 6:03 am

do people understand that the reason we are living longer these days is due to modern medicine? Do people realize that in third world countries where there are no vaccines and there is less accessibility to modern medicine the mortality rate is much higher? Be thankful these resources are available and take advantage of them.
Don’t get me started on home births….another reason the infant survival rate in modern countries is SO MUCH higher.

responce to 72 from 61
March 5, 2010 6:01 am

you are right about sanitation, but not in crown heights… besides i was talking only about childhood diseases which are preventable by vaccines.

RE #30
March 5, 2010 5:42 am

#30 said
even if it is not 100% effective – my own child got the mumps even though all in our family are vaccinated

You think your child got mumps because vaccine was not effective enough. Interesting. Anyone here has a child that got mumps without vaccination. Let’s make a little poll here.

Do you know what's in vaccines?
March 5, 2010 5:41 am

Monkey tissue, chemicals, poison and more! Do a little research if you really care.

Oh, and to all those crying out voo-d– and new age stuff, get a grip on reality. Natural and alternative healing is the real deal. You think Dr. Rambam would have given vaccines, I think not.

ADD, ADHD, the increase in dementia, arthritis, mental illness and more became highly prevalent AFTER 1971 when vaccinating became popular.

The lack of knowledge here is astonishing.
March 5, 2010 5:36 am

I’m willing to state that every person here saying non-vaxers are wrong and making comments about “voodoo” (which is avoda zara and quite a disgusting false insult) has never done any research on non-vaxers or spoken to any of them at length, or any medical professionals who believe in a parent’s right to choose. I’ll bet you’ve never gone beyond Kingston Ave for an opinion or any FACTS.

The REAL Problem
March 5, 2010 5:36 am

LEt us try and focus as to why mumps is NOT spreading virally in other populations. This is the point of Dr. Rosen. CH and the anash community have specific social and educational (or the lack thereof) conditions that cause the widespread belief in non-mainstream thought as to multiple issues including vaccination. The rest of america/civilized world is not spreading this disease at an alarming rate for a simple reason. Most people are vaccinated with a very small percentage of the population not vaccinated in most schools. It comes down to basic math. LArge percentage of small community not vaccinated=wide… Read more »

response to #61
March 5, 2010 5:34 am

Nice “theory” of mutations.

Along that logic, there should be new vaccines for every mutation out there…

And where are the mutations of all the other diseases that many millions of people — whether in crown heights or around the world — remain unvaccinated for?

Where’s your proof? And a source — even for a flimsy theory — would also be nice. Are we supposed to just take your word on that?

go drink antifreeze
March 5, 2010 5:28 am

To all the people, young and old, who are vaccine-lovers, fo drink some anti-freeze. After all, it’s in the vaccines, it must be perfectly safe to do so!

Just consider ...
March 5, 2010 5:28 am

… that Dr. Eli Rosen is way too conservative for todays medicine. He correctly diagnosed my problem and referred to specialist, saying she will most likely give me XYZ medicine (that turned out is extremely outdated and has serious side effects) and the specialist gave me new kind that has no side effects and is very effective. On the Geynor meeting, he listens to the more modern stand and then he spoke on that meetings, he took moderate stand on vaccinations. I heard him saying clearly “it all depends on the case” and that often time he regretted giving vaccination… Read more »

in the middle
March 5, 2010 5:21 am

I am not a dr. but i think that children should be vaccinated but not with 3 shots in one when they are tiny babies! If you are concerned ask your doctor about spacing out vaccinations. I do not think schools should expell students for something that is clearly their parents fault

CARING MAMMY & TATTY
March 5, 2010 5:15 am

EXPELLING A CHILD FROM A SCHOOL IS A VERY GRAVE THING. WHICH SHOULD BE DONE BY ADVISE OF A RAV. HOW MANY NESHOMAS HAVE WE LOST. A CARING MAMMY & TATTY FROM CROWN HEIGHTS.

Response to #61
March 5, 2010 5:13 am

Response to #61

You should also look at the “historical data” that points to improvements in modern SANITATION and living conditions — not vaccines — as the real cause for the decline in many — or most — of these diseases.

politics politics politics
March 5, 2010 5:13 am

Even Dr. R. is not addressing the politics behind the push from the top to vaccinate … Whenever I hear someone speak of science as basis for some medical doctrine … I am reminded of all the fudged findings reported by medical researchers to their funders … in order to satisfy them so there will be additional future funding … and whenever I hear news accounts of medical findings about anything … I am reminded of the sensationalism that sells papers and keeps people tuned in to the media source … It was in one of Dr. Branover’s journals that… Read more »

medical professionals
March 5, 2010 5:10 am

when you say listen to medical professionals, you imply that ROSEN is the only darn medical doctor on the face of the earth. the rest of us follow the blue aliens. we should get on board with the MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS ie: DOCTOR ROSEN. ever occurred to anyone that there are respected medical proffessionals who DISAGREE with rosen???

Get it right ...
March 5, 2010 5:03 am

On 28 January 2010, the UK General Medical Council (GMC) ruled that Wakefield “failed in his duties as a responsible consultant”,acted against the interests of his patients, and “dishonestly and irresponsibly” in his controversial research. Wakefield is likely to have to wait several more months to learn of any disciplinary actions to be taken by the GMC. However, He is currently unlicensed in the UK or the US as a physician.

this is really funny
March 5, 2010 5:03 am

to the guy who says any commentator thinks theyre a better doctor than dr rosen: I am NOT a doctor, but i do HAVE a doctor that is definitely a better doctor than eli rosen. The borders of crown heights DO NOT constitute the end of the world. There is a far and beyond. There is a place not too far from here where doctors practice RESPONSIBLE medicine. pathetic!!!

giving a bit older...
March 5, 2010 5:02 am

what about your baby’s safety?
soon after my baby was born i had whopping cough (the vaccination wears off after many years), and my baby who was only 2 months old caught it…i cannot describe to you how scary it is to see your baby coughing hysterically, thank G-d my baby had had his first pertussis (whopping cough shot) so although he was not yet completely immune (he needs the booster) he did not ever turn blue or have trouble breathing, basically for people thinking of pushing off the shots, think of this…

Mutations
March 5, 2010 4:57 am

Ina population which is not fully vaccinated, a virus may survive and mutate, thus becoming uneffected by the antibodies which were developed in responce to a vaccine. that’s why even vacinated people can get sick. You people should look into historical data: childhood mortality before vaccines was horrendous. The diseases which are preventable by vacination , were killing babies and leaving many more with life-long disabilities. If a woman gave birth 10 times, she was luky if 5 survived past 3. Internet is a source of spreading of all marginal and conspiracy theories. Listen to medical professionals. Understand that vacine… Read more »

the law
March 5, 2010 4:55 am

that is rubbish. it is illegal to expel students with an exemption from public school.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS MAY DO AS THEY PLEASE. they can create their own rules, including requiring vaccinations.

in addition, this headline is terribly misleading. dr. rosen does not suggest expelling. he suggests only accepting students who are vaccinated, for the sake of the klal and protecting the majority of the population.

Shame on you #15!
March 5, 2010 4:53 am

Where was Rav Osdoba? Rav Schwei’s dina d’malchusa dina quote is proof in and of itself. NY and US law state that no matter how private an institution is that it must adhere to these laws, and the laws are on the side of the rights of non-vaxing parents via religious and medical exemptions! Respect that just because someone believes differently from you that it doesn’t make them ignorant, stupid, wrong, or lazy or any of these other comments. Dr. Rosen is simply trying to force his view on everyone and it is assur according the Torah and the law… Read more »

rofeh yedid
March 5, 2010 4:53 am

dr. Rosen your the best

To number 40
March 5, 2010 4:52 am

I hope people read your comment again and again. You are a voice of reason, and I completely agree with you on it all. The doctors don’t want to accept that the vaccine doesn’t work, so they are looking to point fingers somewhere. The proof will be when a 3rd MMR booster will be required!!! Coming soon, stay alert.

To #50
March 5, 2010 4:43 am

So sue the yeshivas. Meanwhile, MY grandchildren won’t be exposed to anything. I say EXPEL!!! To Bubbe…we’re probably the same age & I agree completely. I remember having measles when I was about 10 & I was so sick. Chicken pox (no vaccine then) left me with terrible scars. It also left my daughter deaf because she got the pox inside her ears & she needed corrective surgery. Again, this was before the vaccine came out. I once saw a teen in the hospital in a permanent vegetative state. His mother told me she hadn’t vaccinated, he caught measles &… Read more »

Fan of DR. Rosen
March 5, 2010 4:40 am

how many Doctors do you know that keep office hours till midnight ?!?!?!

Please don't be so fearful
March 5, 2010 4:33 am

Thank you to post #35 Tedd Koren. I truly hope that the school principals will have the openmindedness to hear what you have to say. Hearing the threat of the effect of not vaccinating in our community by a doctor trained to believe that is risky can make any school administration feel negligent if they don’t take a strong stand. However, being truly informed from the other angle can definitely put your fears at rest.

Inaffective vaccine
March 5, 2010 4:32 am

Is it possible that the vaccine given from Dr. Rosen’s office in the last 20 years were false viles of nothing and therefore we have an outbreak today????Is this also happening in other communities???

NY and Federal Law are on the side of non-vax parents
March 5, 2010 4:27 am

Illegal! Illegal!

And Dr. Rosen, you were on the phone with me when my child was having a dangerous reaction to the vaccinations. You admitted it!

Selfish
March 5, 2010 4:22 am

I don’t want to vaccinate my children. To stop the spread of diseases (MMR, Polio………….) I take myself out of the picture and look at the world that I am in. I need to act if I want a safer world. Because of all the selfish people who rely on ME to keep THEIR kids disease free. How fair is that. By not vacinating your children you put others (weaker immune systems) at risk. In theory yes it is a good theory only bc most normal people don’t only think about themselves. I’m so tired of hearing or reading your… Read more »

The law
March 5, 2010 4:15 am

NY state law is on the side of the non-vaxing parents. It is ILLEGAL to expel children who have the exemption. The doctors and administrators don’t have a leg to stand on. They are using intimidation tactics and this is ILLEGAL. So much for dina malchusa.

Another option
March 5, 2010 4:08 am

As a mom I was a little nervous because of all the hype about the MMR and autism. I just gave the shots to my kids when they were a little older. NO 4 YEAR OLD WITHOUT PREVIOUS AUTISTIC TENDENCIES WILL ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME AUTISTIC! For parents who are worried, dont skip the shots all together, just give them when your child is a bit older.

Rofeh Yedid?
March 5, 2010 4:02 am

Some doctors know to whom to be a ‘rofeh yedid’- and it is not always for altruistic reasons. A true Rofeh Yedid cares for the ones who are not in a position to further the doctors interests and treats them with meticulous respect. There are or have been some doctors in the community like that but such special people are few & far between.

Dr. rosen
March 5, 2010 4:02 am

for all those that say that ddr. rosen dosent know what hes talking about then:
a) your probably a better doctor.
b) your a better doctor that has time to read this article and comment.
c) there are so man people that are commenting

that means that all of u think ur a better doctor than rosen – rosen is a top ranked soctor he dosent waste time commenting on blogs

"Using" the Rebbe
March 5, 2010 4:01 am

Answer to post #31 about the Rebbe’s opinion on vaccinations: All of the Rebbe’s letters in the books you mention deal only with one vaccine: The Polio vaccine. The Rebbe does not discuss the MMR vaccine or any other. He certainly does not address the current trend of administering multiple vaccines at once (or whether to do so to such young infants, like is done today). Besides for that: All the letters you mention are from the 1950s! How can you even dare to assume what the Rebbe would say about vaccines today?! Most of the possible dangers of vaccines… Read more »

to the ones that have now mumps
March 5, 2010 3:56 am

to the ones that have now mumps, EVEN THOUGH YOU GOT VACCINATED. USUALY IF THERE IS A SMALL PORTION OF A DESEACE AROUND , YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM CAN FIGHT IS, THE VACCINE HELPS. BUT SINCE MUMPS CAME OUT TOO TOO TOO MUCH, (CAUSE OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT DO NOT VACCINE) THE VACCINE CANT STOP IT AND PEOPLE CATCH IT ANYWAYS.
SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH 🙂

Bubbe remembers
March 5, 2010 3:54 am

The young people who think they are protecting their own children have no idea what it was like before we had all the vaccinations. Some of us remember when every child had measles, mumps, rebella, chicken pox. Many also had hepatitis, whooping cough, and other diseases, names of which I can’t even remember. It was not unusual to see a child with braces on their legs because of polio, Every once in a while there was an outbreak of smallpox, or diphtheria. And not everyone survived, while others were left with lifelong damage. Do we need to go back to… Read more »

Dear Guilty Parent:
March 5, 2010 3:51 am

You remind me of the Rov I knew who guaranteed the meat was Kosher enough in our town for the masses, but he wouldn’t eat that hechscher! You obviously subscribe to the “don’t do as I do, do as I say” philosophy.

i am in favor of vaccinations…for everyone. I was concerned about autism too, so I paid privately for my MD to give separate injections. But all my kids were vaccinated.

Bochurim should be vaccinated. So should YOUR kids, Mr/Mrs GUILTY parent. Or maybe it should HYPOCRITICAL parent.

Something doesn't add up
March 5, 2010 3:47 am

As I understand, most of the cases of mumps seen here have been in people who were vaccinated. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how this is the fault of the people who are NOT vaccinated? It seems to me that this group of smart, educated people is focusing on the wrong point. Unless I am missing some major piece of information, isn’t the problem that there is a strain of mumps that the vaccine just doesn’t protect against? What is the point of forcing kids to get a vaccine that clearly doesn’t work? Maybe the medical professionals need to… Read more »

Sick
March 5, 2010 3:46 am

The idiocy expressed in these comments reminds me why I don’t live in CH anymore. You think you know better than scientists because of your little pop-theories that are refutable by anyone with a BASIC education. I can’t stand you people with your heads in the sand stamping your feet about adopting to a world that has moved far beyond you…

It's a political question
March 5, 2010 3:43 am

As I see it, there are 3 groups of people: 1. Those who believe only in Medical Doctors, everything they believe is “the real world of science” and any one arguing with them is “ignorant” a clown etc. 2. Those that are waging war on the Medical Doctors saying that they don’t know what they are talking about. 3. Respecting the MD’s for what they do know, but understanding that they don’t know it all, and that their look at health is only from 1 point of view “scientific medicine” and they are very biased not to accept any new… Read more »

Comedy club!
March 5, 2010 3:31 am

How naive they all are!
PSA: Smallpox vaccine worked, the others are a sham! If there weren’t so many casualties from the smallpox vaccine, we’d still be getting that one too!

I am pro Vaccination.
March 5, 2010 3:22 am

I got (have it right now) the Mumps even though I had the Vaccination. I am still a strong believer in vaccinations!

to rofeh yedid
March 5, 2010 3:16 am

eli rosen was NOT the REBBES doctor. Dr Feldman was. where was he? obviously rosens not the only doctor in our community but still “using” the Rebbe to further his power trip. very caring and not hypocrytical at all.

A DOCTOR AND A TZADIK
March 5, 2010 3:16 am

.

Dr. Rosen, that you continue to serve Crown Heights with such “Medias Nefesh; just shows, that you are extra ordinary human being.

As a health care professional....
March 5, 2010 3:06 am

I think the attitude of forcing children to be vaccinated is completely wrong. The mumps vaccine doesn’t work and has been linked to various neurological and immunological disorders. In almost every case mumps is a mild disease that leaves a healthier and stronger immune system in its wake.
Children’s health has deteriorated greatly since mandatory vaccines were introduced.
I would be happy to present the scientific research opposing vaccines (MMR, DPT etc) to the school administrators so they can better make an informed decision.
Tedd Koren, DC [email protected] 215-699-7906.

Most mumps cases were vaccinated!!!
March 5, 2010 2:42 am

I fail to see how Nshei Chabad Newsletter is to blame for the mumps outbreak which started in a chassidic community that is highly vaccinated and likely doesn’t read the N’she. The vast majority of mumps cases were in children who were vaccinated. But nice way to deflect criticism off those who are pushing ineffective vaccinations onto parents who conscientiously object.

Guilty parent
March 5, 2010 2:34 am

I am a parent who stopped giving vaccines. I couldn’t stand bringing home a formerly well child, who now was made sick. I myself got sick from a flu vaccine last year and DID NOt take it again this year. Little babies are overloaded with many more vaccines than in days past. Let’s vaccinate all the Yeshiva bochorim, NOW, perhaps that is an answer here.

gross misuse of power
March 5, 2010 2:33 am

what is the community coming to?

The Rebbe said to vaccinate
March 5, 2010 2:30 am

So what the docs are saying is, you must vaccinate EVEN THOUGH almost ALL of those infected with mumps received the mumps vaccine. Hmmmm. It’s not like they’ve chosen a great time to make their case.

Most significant to Lubavitcher Chassidim should be that the Rebbe said to vaccinate. Read the Rebbe’s letters in Igros Kodesh volume XIV p. 238, 107, 108, 343, 357. Read the translation of these letters in “Healthy in Body, Mind and Spirit” (Sichos in English), vol. 2.

Causing Harm
March 5, 2010 2:27 am

Clearly there is a mitzvah not to cause harm to others. If by choosing not to vaccinate your child by your actions is spreading a disease then you have done somthing wrong.
(even if it is not 100% effective – my own child got the mumps even though all in our family are vaccinated),

hindy
March 5, 2010 2:18 am

Finally some sence!!! Let’s see how quickly these parents change their tune when the kids get expelled!!! Go Dr. Rosen!!!!

True Rofeh Yedid
March 5, 2010 1:45 am

Dr. Rosen is a true Rofeh Yedid as the Rebbe has advised many times to consult with. He advises purely out of concern for the community NOT because he stands to gain from this. He sees more than any of us how this stance against vaccinations is affecting the wellbeing of this community and he really cares about each individual. The Rebbe advised to consult with a Rofeh yedid and take his advice. Here you have it.

go Dr. Rosen
March 5, 2010 1:28 am

He’s not afraid to say what must be said! Kol Hakavod! I am happy he is doing his best to protect OUR children. Poster #5 “with all due respect” had a good compromise.

Ridiculous
March 5, 2010 1:26 am

The whole thing about autism and vaccinations are a bunch of BS! One lawyer decided to make millions of dollars from it!!!
In Public Schools a child is NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER SCHOOL WITHOUT his/her VACCINES!! This law should be done in our jewish schools.
Any parent who doesn’t give shots to their child/ren are unfit parents!!

Lies. Lies. How about some truth?
March 5, 2010 1:25 am

What deaths has Rosen specifically seen by not getting vaccine? If vaccines are ineffective in the vase of unvaccinated population, why do travelers abroad need to get vaccinated before mingling with the unvaccinated population? I have lost even more respect for the Crown Heights community. I did not see one argument why unvaccinated children caused this. Rather than Rosen look at the failed science of vaccines which would discredit him, he is scapegoating. To say that vaccines don’t harm any children (even injuries outside of autism) is either a lie or a display of complete ignorance. Also, Wakefield did not… Read more »

RABBI DECHTER
March 5, 2010 1:24 am

Where is Rabbi Dechter of Ocean Parkway.

To #1 and #4
March 5, 2010 1:00 am

What about Pikuach Nefesh?? What about the fact that mumps can cause infertility later on in life??? Because selfish mishugoyim believe some dumb EX doctor in England.. my nephew who was vaccinated got the mumps from some selfish idiot, and had fever that topped out at 106,, that can cause brain damage!!! Halacha is clear that pikuach nefesh does not belong to a rov, it belongs to a doctor!!! It certainly does not belong to educators.. so any idiot who can say that Dr Rosen should not be standing up to protect our community from diseases has no foundation in… Read more »

to number 4
March 5, 2010 12:52 am

dr rosen asks: that doesn’t mean it has to get done.
he is a doctor and will be one for the rest of his life.
what makes you think he is sticking his head into chinuch.
he just has to deal with everyone who gos to school and gets sick b/c of it.
so if i where u i wouldn’t stick my nose in to a doctors business, witch is to keep everyone healthy.

just one more question, if a big doctor asked you not go somewhere b/c you will get very sick, would you still go there?

Dina D'Malchusa Dina
March 5, 2010 12:43 am

This also has built in exemptions and respects the right of the parents to choose. This is ILLEGAL to expel students!

Think for yourselves!
March 5, 2010 12:41 am

Instead of just accepting what you’re being told here, how about researching the other side? There is proven validity. How about a little achdus for other things like lowering tuition, raising tznius, etc? Why achdus for expelling kids whose parents are doing what they deeply believe is best to protect their lives? Remember when African Americans couldn’t drink from the same water fountain as Caucasians? Remember yellow arm bands? What are you doing?

Assur!
March 5, 2010 12:38 am

What will you say to Hashem and the Rebbe!? Stop with your PERSONAL agenda of being riled up and arrogant over the fact that your patients and others are thinking for themselves. Vaccinating is NOT clear cut and in Federal Law already is built in the ability for exemptions and the right of parents to choose! You are outright trying to blackmail parents to vaccinate or stay home. You won’t win this dangerous game.

why should I suffer?
March 5, 2010 12:34 am

Im a new mother living in constant fear about my child contracting the mumps, imagine if everyone got vaccinated when they are supposed to then the strain of the mumps we see now would of never shown up…. what a concept!!!! I find it odd that all the medical researchers and doctors and authorities would schedule a shot at a time thats not healthy for a person when the whole goal of vaccinations is to keep the public healthy and safe not to bring onto themselves a whole new set of issues… people read do your own research not just… Read more »

CHEREM for parents too!
March 4, 2010 11:51 pm

ANY student who is a health hazard of ANY sort due to parental neglect or alternative medical beliefs should be expelled, and the parents put in CHEREM until the hazard is corrected. The abundance of alternative health wannabe experts in Chabad is alarming and sickening and it is time for this nonsense to stop.

compromise
March 4, 2010 11:19 pm

With all due respect-

I agree with your suggestion, parents should be allowed to stagger the vaccine sequence or choose to give it to their child when they are a bit older.
But then you must keep your child home until the vaccinations are complete. A child who is not vaccinated should not, for their own sake and for the sake of other children be allowed in school.

Where was Rabbi Osdoba???
March 4, 2010 10:02 pm

I am not a Dr. Rosen fan but he is absolutely right that children whose parents refuse to vaccinate should not be allowed in our schools. You stupid people are putting everyone at risk.

if everyone can get together in one room this has to be the biggest crisis we have faced in the past 15 years.

Anya
March 4, 2010 9:07 pm

I think that leaving schoolmates open to various illnesses just because someone wasn’t victimized is a social hazard. Colleges and government sponsored educational facilities have a strict rule against vaccinations.

As per the good Dr. Rosen making extra cash off the expelled students, I think his roster is closed…he can’t take anymore patients because he has enough. Its not about money, its about protection.

That was jjust my opinion.

Sorry,
March 4, 2010 8:33 pm

Dr Rosen Doesnt know what he’s talking about!

Ruthie Poltorak Kirschenbaum ROCKS!!!
March 4, 2010 8:26 pm

Yasher koach for all your good work!

Seriously!
March 4, 2010 8:14 pm

#3 to call Dr. Rosen some dumb doctor is a reflection of your own ignorance. People in the medical profession are faced with horrific preventable diseases every day. When a doctor in a community like Crown Heights, that generally sweeps medical issues under the carpet, is speaking up, it is a truly serious situation. While autism is a frightening diagnosis the side effects of mumps can be very serious. #2 READ the above article. The reason people who were vaccinated are getting mumps is because other people are not getting vaccinated (or your vaccine could have not worked)

Choosing for others
March 4, 2010 8:06 pm

This situation at hand evokesa recollections of two concepts debated in medical ethics. In the matter of Claire Conroy the Supreme Court of New Jersey considered a ruling in 1985 whether treatment could be enforced or withheld from severely demented patients. Perhaps that is how Dr. Rosen looks at this community. We simply lack the competence to make informed choices about our own well- being. The second case was the discovery that from 1936 through the 1960’s (The case of Tuskegee) where the U.S. Public Health Service initiated an experiment in Macon County, Alabama to determine the natural progression of… Read more »

missing the point
March 4, 2010 8:05 pm

Dr. Rosens point is people do not realize the consequences of their “personal decision”. Yes, you have the right to decide what is good for your child, but you do not have the right to endanger other children. If everyone had the shots, the community at large would be immune to the disease. The aftereffects of mumps of very serious especially to the male… What the Dr. is trying to do is prevent jepradizing the vaccinated. In order to contain the disease it must be stopped from spreading. No one realizes the seriousness of the situation and therefore, extreme measures… Read more »

to "wrong dr. rosen"
March 4, 2010 7:59 pm

What a stupid, stupid, stupid comment. Of course it’s the doctor’s responsibility to look after the health of the community! He cares about us! He cares about his patients! And he thinks these kids are posing a threat to the other kids! And ultimately, he’s sitting in an advisory position…

Dr. Rosen is right!
March 4, 2010 7:57 pm

He is 100% right. This isn’t just about mumps. This is a threat ch”v on many levels. If these parents believe what they believe, let them start their own schools. But it’s sick that they threaten the health of the other kids! And to the person who said it should be left to rabbonim– note that R. Schwei presided over the meeting. And “with all due respect,” are you insane? Lots of things happen at 18 months. But the doctors all agree that vaccination does NOT cause autism. (Besides this one clown who was thrown out of the profession.) Your… Read more »

Ruthie Poltorak Kirschenbaum ROCKS!!!
March 4, 2010 7:35 pm
with all due respect
March 4, 2010 7:18 pm

These are the facts. The MMR (mumps, measels, rhuebela) shots are given in stages, with the latest shot at 18 months. 18 months is the time people can detect autism, thus the notion the injection causes autisim. Doctors feel the shots need to be taken in a certain sequence and time spread, however, if a toddler gets sick often, then the vaccinations cannot be given, and the sequence falls apart. Rather than force medical decisions on parents, some of whom are rather educated and have strong beliefs on this matter, a good compromise would be to allow parents who are… Read more »

Wrong Dr. Rosen
March 4, 2010 6:58 pm

It is not your business to decide if kids should be expelled from learning Torah
A doctor should stick to his field. We don’t need more “educators” advising our system what to do and how
We’ll leave that to the rabbonim and menahalim

clueless
March 4, 2010 6:58 pm

Why is it that some dumb british doctor says something, is proven wrong by the whole medical world and people still walk around believing what he said
How clueless can people be?!

Faulty
March 4, 2010 6:58 pm

I got vaccinated for Mumps and here i am with it…

so nice...
March 4, 2010 6:26 pm

…to see e/o together

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