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Wednesday, 24 Tishri, 5780
  |  October 23, 2019

Can We Correct Shidduch Lingo?

From the COLlive inbox: A mother called a shidduch expert about her son -- and managed to derail the prospect. Full Story

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First Shiduch Op ED that I actually agree on
Guest
First Shiduch Op ED that I actually agree on

It’s the “but” when describing someone that sets the tone, as if who they are is a let down. My in laws are shluchim who described my husband in the same manner way back when. Chilled, working, trim beard and jeans. No mention of all the positives middos, like he actually is making a living, kind, davens and is willing to help out anyone at any given time no matter what the circumstances. Even our shadchan was surprised that they described their son in such a negative manner and realized it was their own insecurities/disappointments that caused them to describe… Read more »

My humble opinion
Guest
My humble opinion

You’re so right! A mother recently told me that her son is chilled. He’s so not!

Going to re-write my script!
Guest
Going to re-write my script!

Thank you for your inspiring words. Now I need to change the script when I speak of my son in regards to a shidduch. How about this: One of sons who has a more modern orientation right now is going for his PhD at a top Univ in the States in Divinity Studies. This is quite remarkable considering he had a yeshiva background from the get-go.and a poor command of the English language. I am sure with his brilliance and perseverance, he will do wonders and be able to use his unique yeshiva background and give a fresh and different… Read more »

"Chilled bochur"
Guest
"Chilled bochur"

Parents are people too. Just like kids wish there parents
Were cooler, more “with it” or whatever, parnents wish their kids were more chsidish or successful based on their values.
I guess the key is don’t make it so obvious.

Set me up
Guest
Set me up

Can you pls set us up? He sounds like a nice young man (in the mean time:) I’m also a bit “chill” and my mother isn’t crazy about my choices either.. I went to college so that I can help secure myself a living. I’m happy that this young man went out and is securing his as well. It reassuring to go out with a guy who’s “found” himself (or is trying), as opposed to going out with guys who are “handy”. Guess what?! So am I.. do you have a plan with what you’re going to do with your… Read more »

It's all in the language
Guest
It's all in the language

Yes, your version sounds better – but is it as accurate as the mother’s? Your version sounds stiff & would make me think what am I NOT being told? Hers is more open and honest and sounds like she is talking about a boy with personality. I too was nervous about one or two of my boys because (hands up in horror!!!) they WORK. I needn’t have been concerned. We got plenty of calls because they are well known as being responsible, frum, helpful people and ALL of them made what some people call “great shidduchim.” And they were shidduchim.… Read more »

Has a job Chas vsholom ????
Guest
Has a job Chas vsholom ????

She could have said …. He is working and may even be able to support a family one day …. Oy yoy terrible !! /s

Oh yes.
Guest
Oh yes.

For goodness sake what’s wrong with a bochur who actually wants to fulfill what he signs on in the ketuba?

Gosh. Such an awful choice, right?

He’s frum. He’s kind. He’s working. He’s caring. He goes to minyan and shiurim. He sounds great – why aren’t you proud of him??

Right on!
Guest
Right on!

Hey, you are right! I would go so far as to say that sometimes parents have this attitude to a child in general, not just with shidduchim – they speak about a child this way (can’t keep their judgment
out of the picture when talking about the child) – and the child
feels this – (that he is not loved UNCONDITIONALLY) – and this can affect him adversely – lack of self esteem – pronounced to him by his wellmeaning parent – who just dosn’t know how to SHOW unconditional love. It might be THE problem, sometimes.

parent is simply accurately describing her son
Guest
parent is simply accurately describing her son

I don’t think the parent is wrong in her description. If she says he is “chilled”– he probably is just that. “Chilled” means cooled down, as in not as passionate or “on fire” with excitement towards yiddishkeit or chassidishkeit. He may still daven with a minyan or go to a shiur, but his passion in life, his “fire” may be into other things like baseball or movies etc. Hence his parent says he is “chilled” which is an accurate description of where he is at and what kind of Shidduch he needs. He probably is looking for a girl who… Read more »

Choice of words
Guest
Choice of words

Chilled and hardworking sound like contradictions. How we use words makes a big difference, especially when describing someone. Every community use colloquialisms, and this is especially true in the Jewish community. When describing a person as chilled the image I get is someone sitting at home with their feet up, not someone who isn’t Chassidish or as religious as their parents. The other point I’d like to raise is that when describing her son as chilled, or less chassidish, the mother felt said “it’s not like he’s into drugs or anything”. Why do we equate someone less Chassidish or Frum… Read more »

Be careful about how you judge others...
Guest
Be careful about how you judge others...

AN OPEN LETTER FROM A FRUSTRATED MATCHMAKER: It’s so hard to please anyone these days!!! Here is a partial list of my clients …. I couldn’t even get them one date, and that is why I am finally quitting and going into the pickle business. Avraham Avinu: How can you recommend him to my daughter? Wasn’t he involved in a family feud with his father over some idols? Then he left home without a GPS or a viable business plan! Yitzchak Avinu: His brother is an Arab terrorist!!! Rivka Imeinu: Sorry, she seems nice but did you hear about her… Read more »

B"H
Guest
B"H

Is that not what the job of the shadchan is? That is not what he/she gets payed for?,
most people are not salesmen they hire brokers (shadchanim) to do the nice talking

to #10
Guest
to #10

Of course, the mother can use words like ‘chilled’ – if she defines what she means, in a more objective, factual way – without her emotions and thoughts about his chocies creeping in. It is the words like “BUT”, “EVEN” that are judgmental.

She might say””We’re looking out for a shidduch for our Mendel. He’s a fine young man. He is a frum guy, CHILLED – that is he davens everyday with a minyan, learns several times a week. And he is already making a living as a developer at Z organization.”

#12 The Best Comment
Guest
#12 The Best Comment

So right! Will think about all the tzadikim in our past did not come from the best homes and look what they accomplished!

 @ #5
Guest
@ #5

Your comment is a breath of fresh air. I basically for the description of the guy described in the op-ed. Can you be reached through the editor?

So true
Guest
So true

Don’t objectify your child. Meaning see him/her as a human being with physical, emotional and spiritual needs. They’re all important and I don’t put one over the other.

That's not a negetive trait.
Guest
That's not a negetive trait.

Chilled. It’s a way to describe someone. The other side is that the couple goes out ofter weeks of research… and there is a complete lack of compatibility because the mother was scared to describe her son the way he is (frum but chilled). And unfortunately this article strengthened It. 😟

Other side
Guest
Other side

Sometimes these mothers aren’t even open to find the right girl for their son’s needs.
For example they will easily say on a girl ‘she isn’t good enough for my son/not tznius enough’ (etc.) when he is chilled and doesn’t dress like a lubavitcher and it would totally be what he is looking for but no one is asking for his opinion and he is brainwashed to believe so.

Who's doing the judging?
Guest
Who's doing the judging?

Thanks for a positive article about appreciating and speaking about your child in the positive.
But I read your conversation with the parent differently.
The words are judgments, based upon the way this mother’s child and her family for that matter, may feel they are judged by someone ELSE’s mother or shadchan….

Sunflower state
Guest
Sunflower state

I think people are just trying to follow the teachings of the Rebbe who encouraged kollel after marriage not before, then college or work

Mother of boys
Guest
Mother of boys

I am not so sure this mother is wrong. Just a few years ago Shadchanim would cringe or react negatively because my son is “chilled”, i wasnt ashamed until I was shamed. ‘Your son isnt a chossid because chassidim dont touch their beard”. Your son would date modern orthodox because `hes not shlichus minded’, etc. Now its more common, but I am still uncomfortable, not with my son’s choices-he is an amazing guy- but the snarls and snub noses he and we get from our shluchim-oy

Boruch L
Guest
Boruch L

Personally, as a single alter bochur I cannot stand when people label me “Chilled” because I have a job or that I go out to bars every now and then. The word “chill” indicates that I don’t daven with a minyan or don’t go to mikveh is untrue.

Mendel P
Guest
Mendel P

As recently engaged bochur, I have a lot of experience to give over to all of my other single bochurim out there. Don’t be upset when the shadchin only offers you girls that are not the same chassidishkeit level as you. Don’t take it personal it just means that you need to work harder on your shalom bayis and midos and it will all work out in the end.

Dovi G
Guest
Dovi G

Parents need to come to terms that there children aren’t so chassidish as they would like. ive been out on a date where the girl mentioned what she was looking for. and what her mother was looking was in different ballparks.

Mother get in touch with your daughters. ask them what they are looking for.

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