ב"ה
Saturday, 17 Iyyar, 5784
  |  May 25, 2024

Beyond the Options of Tough Love or Gentle Parenting

Response op-ed by Danit Schusterman: "The line 'Because I said so' no longer works, not for this generation. Today's kids need more, and we have the luxury and responsibility to give them more." Full Story

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Moishe
March 17, 2024 11:02 pm

Doesn’t actually address the previous article.

internet and technology
Reply to  Moishe
March 18, 2024 10:17 am

the really horrifying thing is the kids who grew up with having and using computers, smart phones, especially having their own, ipads, laptops, and all their own devices, constantly checking them, having social media, being influenced by these and constantly looking at screens. Terribly evil. Don’t give your kids these. this is the first generation that actually grew up with these evil screens, having their own, having social media. The generation above them didn’t even get phones that Aren’t smart phones until they reached middle or high school. Social media is extremely evil and dangerous. Screentime is dangerous. Watch out.… Read more »

The answer is in THIS WEEKS parshas zachor!
Reply to  Moishe
March 19, 2024 11:14 pm

See Likkutei Sichos Chelek 3 Parshas Zachor for why was King Shaul wrong if he made the most sense and how he was lacking true Kabolas Ol.
If read carefully one may argue that we may derive an important foundation in serving HaShem which is that we dont have kabolas ol because it makes sense but rather we make snese of things because of kabolas ol.

Ever heard of Chukim??
March 17, 2024 11:08 pm

couldn’t disagree more

Hmmm.
Reply to  Ever heard of Chukim??
March 18, 2024 4:27 am

There are some chukim and there are many mitzvos that can be explained

Kabolas ol…
March 17, 2024 11:09 pm

You’re right, it’s not “Do it because I said so”
It means “Do it because Hashem said so”
If it’s all about doing it because I said, that’s where the problems begins. But if we can give children somewhat of somewhat of an understanding (and appreciation) of G-D, and what a soldier is, than kabolas ol becomes doing it because Hashem said so.. and who wouldn’t want to do that.

Anonymous
Reply to  Kabolas ol…
March 18, 2024 7:10 am

Who wouldn’t want to do that?
The same yetzer hara that wouldn’t want to do it for their parents….
Either one reigns it in successfully for both Hashem and parents or one doesn’t.
Some kids will have a harder time mastering the skill than others but it’s equally important for everyone to learn

We're taught
Reply to  Anonymous
March 18, 2024 10:03 am

To train leVaVcha the Veis to love Hashem too! The Yetzar tov has to train the yetzar hara and with that BOTH souls will yearn for G-d and have kabalos ol! (Basi Legani for reference)

Thank you
March 17, 2024 11:13 pm

Wow! Beautiful paradigm shift.

First Kabalos Ol
March 17, 2024 11:18 pm

Kabbalos ol and learning more isn’t an oxymoron, we teach our kids this is how it is . We do things because that’s what Hashem said. Through learning we can understand the meaning and gain more connection but the first thing starting from lech lecha was Kabbalas Ol. This is how we bring up our kids they need to listen to parents and teachers because they are our parents and teachers . We have an obligation to teach them the beauty, Joy and meaning but Naseh then Nishma.

BH Nailed it!
March 17, 2024 11:22 pm

Excellent article.

This is not a new approach....
March 17, 2024 11:24 pm

Gentle patenting is not permissive patenting its tiferes (as described in this article.)

It’s hard for this generation to use this method right, because it requires a lot of inner work.
The parents of this generation were mostly brought up with gevurah, and it’s hard to break generational trends.

Because it requires a lot of inner work...
Reply to  This is not a new approach....
March 18, 2024 12:51 pm

The problem is that those choosing to go the route of gentle parenting are doing so in “rebellion” a lot of the time. Which equals not doing the inner work rather letting your emotions (i.e generally yetzer hara) guide you.

Agree
Reply to  Because it requires a lot of inner work...
March 18, 2024 10:43 pm

Couldn’t agree more, there is nothing wrong with seating boundaries and deciding for you kids what’s good for them rather then giving them at such a young age the feel that they have “power” to rule over you or whatever

no such thing as kabalas ol today?
March 17, 2024 11:33 pm

I dont understand. The foundation of everything needs to be kabbalas ol. yes, understanding is important, but our observance of Yiddishkeit can’t be based on waiting until we understand. there are so many sources for this idea. This seems like a fundamental idea in yiddishkeit. How can we say it no longer applies? the haskala movement, the tzidukim, they all based their Yiddishkeit on what made sense to them. kabalas ol didn’t speak to them either. kabbalas ol does not necessarily equal a gruff parent or educator roughly saying because I said so. and it doesn’t mean we can’t seek… Read more »

Agreed
Reply to  no such thing as kabalas ol today?
March 18, 2024 8:40 am

Yiddishkeit without Kabbalos Ol is not chas vshalom a middle ground. It’s Haskala r”l. A middle ground is a basis of Kabbalos Ol followed by a whole child approach to learning. Giving them the ability to question and ask and grow and then instilling within them the strength to overcome any challenges through self-discipline.
Sounds like the author has some good points, balancing different methods, but throwing out Kabbalos Ol, a foundation of Yiddishkeit is not balance.

Kabolas ol
Reply to  no such thing as kabalas ol today?
March 18, 2024 8:44 am

The difference between them and now is that the kabolas ol has to be internalized by the child. It can’t be second hand, i.e. you have to do it because I’m imposing this on you. We need to use creative approaches to get inside the mind of the child, to understand their obstacles and how we can work around them. It takes a lot more effort on the part of the parent.

Agreed but
Reply to  Kabolas ol
March 18, 2024 11:09 am

I don’t think I takes a lot of creative approaches. Instead the most basic and important thing. Being a role model. If it’s real by yourself, children can see that and they admire it

Bravo!!!
March 17, 2024 11:34 pm

Exactly. Changing of the guard. B”H

Who said so?
March 17, 2024 11:49 pm

You may be right – you may be wrong , but where do you base your ideas on? Your gut feeling? Your “MS in education” teachers? These are at best personal opinions – at worst, further inroads made by the winds of change that our community has recently become inundated with, which are not necessarily ruach yisroel saba.

Torah
Reply to  Who said so?
March 18, 2024 4:01 am

Learn the halachos about balancing our traits in life, except anger (and humility). Anger is meant to be zero. To put that into today’s terms, you don’t get triggered. And that’s not an explanation, that’s the simple meaning. If you don’t understand it though, maybe it is time to do some self work. All the best

Beautiful
March 17, 2024 11:50 pm

Love love ❤️

Balance
March 17, 2024 11:52 pm

Yes. That’s always the end goal. Sometimes one has to go to an extreme to counter an extreme, but the end game is to center on the balance point. Well said, Danit.

Tiferes - Balanced Parenting
March 18, 2024 12:21 am

The last paragraph in the article is the only one that speaks truth. Balanced living as well as parenting is usually best. However, the notion of being entitled because we know we are the generation of the geulah be”H is as confused as this generation is!! Today’s youth feel entitled materially. Halevai they internalized what they learn and lived entitled spiritually.

It never was kabolos ol
March 18, 2024 12:37 am

Even in previous generations . kapbolos ol’ means accepting the yoke . When authority makes unreasonable requests and demands kabolos ol- that is hatolas ol-placing a yoke. The value of kabolos ol is that one conjures the emotions and trust to just accept . Kabolos ol can never be considered a modality of chinuch as it up to the recipient whether to accept or reject but doesn’t allow the authority or educator free rein to do as they please. Want to teach the value of kabolos ol? Explain to the child how freeing it is to accept the yoke of… Read more »

Wow
Reply to  It never was kabolos ol
March 18, 2024 4:04 am

Said beautifully

Anonymous
Reply to  It never was kabolos ol
March 18, 2024 7:06 am

So do you also agree that kids shouldn’t be allowed to make outlandish rules and demands that adults must comply too?
Seems like the roles have inverted and it’s even more destructive

Thanks
March 18, 2024 4:03 am

Thank you for standing up for us.
Those that went to therapy for their childhood and those that did not yet

Anonymous
Reply to  Thanks
March 18, 2024 1:31 pm

How about all those kids who will end up medicated for life because they were never taught to handle a no or control their impulse?
We ain’t doing them any favors either by catering to their wims thinking they will do better

Anon
Reply to  Anonymous
March 19, 2024 2:30 am

You should learn about this approach before trying to argue against it, because no one is advocating for letting your kids do whatever they want

Proper therapy
Reply to  Anonymous
March 19, 2024 10:08 am

Proper therapy does not require medication. Therapy is meant to understand your emotions and get deeper in touch with yourself.
(The few exceptionsto where it is needed is where someone physically has a chemical imbalance in his body)

My thoughts
March 18, 2024 6:03 am

Yes, todays generation has to be taught from the inside out, not from the outside in. But kabolos ol’ is so deep and beautiful and meaningful and such a yesod. Also in this generation we’re greedy to get and experience it all but there is still concealment, things that can’t be understood and that makes room for our biggest accomplishments and contributions and gifts to Hashem which will enable the geulla shlaima to finally completely manifest like the avoda of developing personal bitachon. There is a lot of beauty, strength, and inspiration in our avoda! And we must figure out… Read more »

Anonymous
March 18, 2024 7:00 am

Sounds good Feels good But is it good? By the fruit one can judge it’s seed. Might this explain the utter breakdown of any sense of self reflection, self control, boundaries and respect that children nowadays unfortunately project? Might this excuse the utter lack of leadership, guidance and direction that parents are too afraid to show their own children these days too? Our children need more and deserve parents who drive the car and don’t just sit in the driver’s seat but are constantly looking back for their child’s approval. The shift to prioritize our children’s happiness over their learned… Read more »

Tzivos Hashem model
March 18, 2024 11:08 am

If we read what the Rebbe wrote about why he created Tzivos Hashem and how it works, and apply it to everything else in education, we will be able to reach our children

it's how you say it
March 18, 2024 4:03 pm

the old saying “it’s not what you say, its how you say it”.
How about presenting it this way, next time tell your child calmly “Hashem wants children to listen to their parents, after you listen and follow through, I will explain it to you.
נעשה ונשמע

Strongly disagree
March 18, 2024 10:50 pm

I disagree with this article it does not address what the other one said and the kinda justified the behavior of kids to be okey when the “feel intune with משיח” like since when? There is nothing wrong with seating boundaries and teaching your children to be a mentch, I don’t mean to have them under a spell ect I’m talking about being balanced that they know you love them no matter what you show that to them and at the same time there is some things that are not allowed what so ever. I have seen first hand familys… Read more »

ich Mein
March 18, 2024 11:31 pm

There is kabbolas ol and there is prikas ol. If children grow up in a home where the parents are overtly or covertly saying, “Why should I do that?” then kabbolas ol is off the table.

I believed that until i witnessed it not working
March 20, 2024 12:16 am

Gentle gentle gentle…the outside is stronger than us so let’s love them so they don’t leave us Honestly, as i go to shabbos meals by people’s homes or step into home’s and visit stam, i am shocked to see the chutzpa, ignorance, and anger children have towards parents, siblings, and to everything in general. Now, you’d think – oh boy maybe they are frying out because parents are being too tough on them or whatever. NOPE. These parents are literally the softest, relaxed, calm parents ever. The kids are everywhere, on the other hand. Stuffing their mouths with sugar, lashing… Read more »

Agree!
Reply to  I believed that until i witnessed it not working
March 20, 2024 8:56 pm

Now this is a great reply, and as a teacher and administrator I’m seeing the same things. I even overheard a Kindergartener telling her teacher she is so tired because she goes to bed so late. She asked her teacher “Can you tell my mommy to let me go to sleep earlier?” Kids NEED boundaries to be healthy and thrive.

What a calumny!
March 21, 2024 6:48 am

These are nice sounding words.

But the author is actually dishonoring previous generations by claiming that they kept Yiddishkeit in a more superficial way than we, who she implies, are more enlightened.

This attitude is part of the problem, because without a clear honoring of previous generations–not for their perfection, but simply for being transmitters of mesorah– there cannot be Yiddishkeit bssed on Torah.

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