Apr 16, 2018
Rabbis Discuss Beer Controversy

Rabbi Moshe Elefant of OU, Rabbi Kalman Weinfeld of OK and Rabbi Sholom Tendler of Star-K argue on the beer distributor's Pesach sale.

By COLlive reporter

Three kashrus officials described their differing opinions on purchasing beer in the Tri-State area following Pesach, despite a breakthrough on the matter.

For many years, kashrus agencies approached Simon Bergson to sell the chametz of his Manhattan Beer Distributors (MBD), the largest single market beer distributor in the US which distributes popular beer brands.

Before this Pesach, Bergson agreed to sign a sale of chametz thanks to the involvement of R' Nosson Sternberg, a Lubavitcher businessman from Crown Heights, and Rabbi Kalman Weinfeld, Rabbinic Coordinator for Food Services for OK Kosher.

AMI Magazine called it "The Great Beer Episode of 2018," but kashrus agencies such as Hisachdus HaRabbonim (CRC in New York) and the Star-K, expressed disagreement with the OK's mechirah.

Instead, they are still advising consumers not to purchase brands of beer from Manhattan Beer Distributors for several weeks, as COLlive.com reported.

Dovid Lichtenstein, author of the Headlines series of halachic analyses on modern issues, dedicated an episode of his podcast to discuss the "The Big Beer Controversy in the Tri-State Area - Is it Chametz Shevar Alav HaPesach?"

Speaking on the show were Rabbi Moshe Elefant COO of OU Kosher, Rabbi Weinfeld of the OK and Rabbi Sholom Tendler, Kashrus Administrator of the Star-K.

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Opinions and Comments
1
Yup
Not just one side to the coin
(4/17/2018 12:58:15 AM)
2
Differences
All I hear is the Orthodox Union O-U and the Star K speaking very respectfully of each others organizations. Dont know why everyone has to get worked up and start with name calling only because these organizations and Yiddishkeit in general have different views from one another.
This story mostly blew up ONLY in the chabad world because as usual lubavitchers have to take everything as a personal attack against them.
Everyone has their chumros and stringencies thats all it is!
(4/17/2018 1:06:04 AM)
3
Thank you
so beautiful to hear Rabbi Weinfeld tell the story.
It shows how every Jew regardless of his Torah knowledge, responds to "neshama verter" neshama "words"
"words from the heart enter the heart"

So nice that Rabbi Lichtenstein discusses this so respectfully, what a gift.
(4/17/2018 6:52:21 AM)
4
Poskim?
Who relies on a psak halcha from a "rov" who does not keep a beard? Why would anyone listen to a word from a rov who flagrantly violates issurei d'oraisa? Hamaaseh hu haiker
(4/17/2018 7:40:29 AM)
5
Star-k is just anti lubavitch
The real reason they say it's not good is because Lubavitch was the one to solve this sensitive issue.

The reason they gave: They dont think its shayich for a non observant jew to sell his chometz while still keeping his store open - against everything we in chabad belive.

Why they are wrong: In this case the owner sold the company, so even if he works, it's not his.

Besides the fact that we belive that he does really want to sell his chometz.

There is an answer from the rebbe that backs up this mechira that it is 100% good.


(4/17/2018 8:18:44 AM)
6
#5 words
He didn't really want to sell his business, if someone would have offered to buy it right then and there he most likely would have refused.
What does beard have to do with any of this? This rabbi is a much bigger talmid chachom than you'll ever be so don't insult him based on your personal intimidation.
As far as star k "hating" lubavitch, the same can be said regarding lubavitchers hating star k which is why they feel the need to attack them nonstop. How about attacking the satmar crc for a change? They were just as publicly against this mechira as anyone. Or are they too tough for you to attack? OU also doesn't hold of this. The only reason star k is so in the news is because chabad outlets are making it personal and spreading propagandous hatred based on their self conciousness taking it as a "direct" offense therefore star k is singles out to defend themselves.
Besides noone even mentioned the word lubavitch! Stop with the paranoia, everyone was respectful and actually expressed their appreciation with the attempts of the mechira. Only they don't hold by it and they don't have to. I'm sure if star k or the OU or any other non lubavitch organization made the mechira chabad would right away come out against it. Name calling, misnagdim, no beard, all those great achvadikke words. But that would be ok right?
(4/17/2018 9:10:52 AM)
7
comments
Some comments i wrote on a group. Just beforehand, # 5 your comment is so full of Am Ha'arutzus, one does not know where to begin, you clearly don't know how the Mechira works.

ב"ה


לאחר ששמעתי כל האריכות רציתי להעילות איזה הערות קטנות.

א. מעניין שרב וויינפעלד טוען שבאמת עושים אותה סוג מכירה לכמה מקומות אחרים כל שנה, והחידוש כאן הוא רק על כל הdrama עד שעשו את זה.

ב.
יש כאן כמה דברים מעניינים. 1. מביא שרב בעלסקי רצה לטעון פשט אחרת בתוך דברי רב משה (הגם שהלינק של האוצר החכמה מביאים מרב בעלסקי לא כך). 2. הרבה פוסקים פשוט אינם סומכין על רב משה, וזה פשוט לא מקובל אצל ההשגחות. 3. טנדלער טוען שנתוך המשפחה יש מסורה שרב משה סבר שזה רק בדיעבד שבדיעבד. הגם שקשה להגיד כך, כיון שהדפיס תשובה ושם כותב שזה ברורו ופשוט. אבל באמת יש לעיין אם צריכים לסמוך על דבר כזה גם לכשרות. כמו ההערה חשובה לגבי לדמוך על ביטול בשביל כשרות4. ועד"ז יש להעיר גם לפי מי שאומרים שהרבי היה בסדר בזה, אם זה היה סגדר בדיעבד ואם ירא שמים יש לדמוך על זה ואם יש ליתן כשרות לזה. רב טענדלער טוען שכבר נmaryland לא נתנו הכשר לדבר כזה

ג. רב טענדלער מ star K טוען שאינם נו,נים כשרות על בדיעבד. וחידוש גדול אצלי.


ד. יש להעיר בכלל לגבי דינים בחמץ שעבר עליו הפסח כשסומך על איזה פוסקים, שכבר הערתי.

ה. רב עלעפענט ורב טענדלער העיר באופן קצר הבעיה של המכירה הגם שלא הסבירו בטוב (ואגב רב עלעפאנט לא נחת להענין של הנפ"מ בין מכירה של עסק ושל חמץ).
כנראה מפריע להם שלדבר זו צריכים עורך דין וגם בעיה אם הקונה עובד בתוך החברה. מסתמא גם מעניין אם הבעל הבית עדיין נותן Orders like a boss. אבל הם לא הסבירו כ"כ באריכות

ו. רב טענדלער העיר לאיזה דבר בקיצור לעוד בעיה של אחריות וזה לגבי הענין של Insurance. וזה ממש נוגע ושחכתי ולא הערתי כשמדברים כאן, וזה בעיה אמיתי ולא ראיתי לזה הסבר ותשוה. רק כאן אני יצרף המאמר שצרפתי כמה ימים שעברו.

ז. בכלל הזכרתי לי על זה שבכלל בדברים כאלו האדמה"ז היה מחמיר בכל ענינים כאלו. אבל כמו שכבר הערתי שרב שמואל לויטין אמר שזה רק לגבי הדאורייתא של ב"י וב"י ולא לגבי הדרבנן של חמץ שעבר עליו הפסח.
(4/17/2018 10:23:19 AM)
8
There is an answer from the rebbe that backs up this mechira that it is 100% good.
Is the answer in print please publish the source of your comments.

Thanks
(4/17/2018 11:00:22 AM)
9
To 4
Your comment made my blood boil. To think that you are holier than thou and that thousands or frumme yidden are not reliable because their hashkafa is different from yours. It's people like you who make me lose respect for the beard and what it stands for.
(4/17/2018 1:09:00 PM)
10
To 4
All the people in this conversation have beards what are you talking about?!
(4/17/2018 1:10:47 PM)
11
To 9 and 10
It is assur to cut, shave or trim the beard. Nothing to do with holier-than. Why would you rely on a rov who clearly doesn't keep halocho? And there aren't "different opinions" on this. Look at Moishe Weiner's sefer. Nobody is matir this and rabbonim, einei ho'eido are supposed to lead by example. Period. You can get as mad as you want, but your opinion doesn't particularly matter here.
(4/17/2018 5:50:11 PM)
12
To #11
So you cant accept other opinions that you need to resort to name calling and the like. Best defense is attack isnt it? Just accept the fact that you arent the only person on earth. There there are 70 panim latorah not just chabad panim latorah.
(4/17/2018 7:00:08 PM)
13
can someone clarify
they say that only this year did the problem arise while in the podcast we hear that their was an employee that was working there for years and that Kashrus agencies were trying numerous amount of times to get him to sell his chometz?
(4/17/2018 7:29:45 PM)
14
Love this podcast
Rabbi Dovid Lichtenstein is masterful. I always look forward to his podcasts
(4/18/2018 9:59:36 PM)
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