Shalom,
News reached me of your situation. You are unhappy in your marriage and want a divorce. I am so sorry to hear of your pain. My first and last thought each day is for both of you and you are constantly in my prayers. I want to share some thoughts with you from a place of deep love and a hope for both your wellbeing.
I am not writing as a therapist (I am not one) nor as a relative (I am not one). Nor am I writing as someone who has an answer. G-d holds His innermost wish and truth for both of you and with His blessing, you will both find that truth in your heart. I am writing as a friend to share something of my own story with you along with some Torah thoughts that have meant much to me on my journey. If these are useful to you, sending this letter will have been worthwhile. If not, as the saying goes, take what you like and leave the rest.
I think that during the weekend of your wedding celebrations I shared the concept of the partners in a marriage being like diamonds. In the analogy, a diamond in the rough is larger than one that is cut. But a cut diamond is way more valuable than a raw one. Only a diamond is tough enough to cut a diamond. And when one does so, it must be with skill because if not, the diamond can burst into dust. Life is just like that.
Before marriage we are like raw diamonds – large but of less value than a person who has been refined by the demanding and deep inner work living with a partner requires. Only a spouse can “cut us down to size.” And as we grow together, we must proceed gently so as not to “shatter the vessels” of our partner.
I may also have shared that according to Kabbalah, our lives before marriage correspond to the world of Tohu, unbridled lights that do not take the other into account. By contrast, our lives after marriage correspond to the world of Tikkun, rectification, repair and healing.
Or that according to the Zohar, each couple stands beneath the wedding canopy and believes they are marrying “face to face.” We truly do believe we are entering the marriage seeing the other, being open enough to hold them in entirety. However, the Zohar cautions us: We all get married “back to back.” We don’t have the capacity (at the outset) to see each other. Once we are married, there is a separation of sorts between husband and wife akin to that which is alluded to in the account of Adam and Eve being separated by G-d in the Garden of Eden. When G-d then brings Eve to Adam he says, “Now this is bone from my bones and flesh from my flesh. She shall be called woman (ishah) because she was taken from man (ish.)” And the Torah continues, “A man must therefore leave his father and mother and be united with his wife. They shall become one flesh. The man and his wife were both naked but they were not embarrassed by one another.” It takes time, years and much inner toil, until we are able to meet face to face.
Maybe I mentioned that according to the Talmud husband and wife each only contribute twenty five percent to the formation of a child. G-d on the other hand contributes fifty percent via the child’s ten spiritual abilities. Taking this even deeper, G-d is the context for our marriage. He is the Space that contains it. In fact one of the names for G-d is Hamakom, “The Space”. We have to surrender to Him in order to find lasting peace, joy and purpose.
I am not sure which of these ideas I mentioned. They all sound so lovely, so noble. In theory. Once we are married, they take on another meaning altogether. Suddenly the poetic philosophy is painfully real.
I didn’t know this when I married but I do now. G-d customizes each of our matches for our optimal and individual growth. Marriage is Tikkun, “Repair”. This idea is profoundly illustrated by the famous story of the holy Divrei Chaim, the righteous Reb Chaim of Tzanz. It is told by Rabbi Avraham J. Twerski in his book, “The Zeide Reb Motele.” In my own life, I have come to see myself as both the groom and bride in the story as I will explain in a little while. We are all such complex and subtle beings. G-d in His wisdom brings us together with our mate so that we can become all we are meant to be.
This is the Divrei Chaim’s story:
“When still very young, the outstanding Torah scholar, R. Baruch Frankel, known for his Talmudic commentaries and legal responsa, Baruch Taam, chose Reb Chaim as a husband for his daughter, Rachel Feige. Shortly before the wedding, the young woman found out that Reb Chaim had a severe limp, and she refused to get married. R. Chaim asked to have a few words with her in private. She agreed to speak with him. Although no one was privy to their conversation, the story circulates that Reb Chaim asked his bride to look into the mirror. When she did so, she saw herself with a severe deformity. He then told her that she had been destined to be deformed, but since she was his soul mate, he had intervened, spared her of the pain and took her deformity upon himself. Needless to say, Rachel Feige consented to marry him. Reb Baruch used to say, ‘My son-in-law may have a weak leg, but he has a very strong mind.'”
My friends, I am not G-d forbid pointing a finger, diagnosing, blaming. Not to either of you. What do we know? What can we know? In the Book of Samuel we read the powerful words G-d said to Samuel when he attempted to anoint David’s oldest brother Eliav. “Don’t look at his appearance, or the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. It (reality) is not as man sees. A person sees what is visible to the eyes, while G-d sees into the heart.” (1, 16:7) I am simply sharing the truth that husband and wife a) carry things within themselves that are difficult for the other to manage and b) that those particular challenges are tailor-made for both the husband and wife to become the very person they are meant to – and can – be.
And the bigger the person, the greater their challenge. As the Talmud teaches us, “Whoever is greater than his fellow, his evil inclination is greater as well.” (Sukka 52a) I perceive both of you as remarkable, gifted and wonderful people. You do not get those gifts for free. That is a difficult truth. But it is the truth. There are times I cry to my husband and say I do not want the pain that my perception or understanding came along with. He responds, “Better the pain together with the perception than neither.”
* * *
To return to my main point that G-d customizes our soul mate for our optimal growth, I would like to share something of my personal story with you. I have decided to share it with you because if my situation can help you in yours, then my challenge, or Growth Opportunity as I have come to call our challenges, has been well worth it. I do so with the agreement of my husband. He too hopes for your good.
On the day of my wedding, I was confident I was poised for the “perfect” marriage. It didn’t take long for me to think I had made a mistake.
Only later did I realize this was a common experience. At the time though I thought I was the only one. I attended classes where, at least so it seems to me in retrospect, the women presented a façade of an ideal marriage. They would say, “Let’s say you have an argument…” as if such a scenario was hypothetical. And then, “Such as…” followed by a searching pause as they looked for the elusive fight which seemed never to have happened in their home! It was all I could do to stop myself from waving my hands and calling out, “I can give you a situation!”
The example was invariably the same. It didn’t matter who or when, I came to anticipate the satisfied burst of enthusiasm that came with finding a memory. “Such as…he doesn’t throw his socks in the hamper!” Oh. My. G-d. I would have been a happy camper if that was what my husband and I were dealing with. It never crossed my mind that the picture of marital bliss was – at least in part – a masquerade. (Yes of course I understand, it was all for the honor of the Torah. After all, how might it look if a teacher was actually struggling with the very concept he or she was sharing?!) All this was as yet entirely unknown to me. As such, despite those classes and lectures, I was in shock and pain. I contemplated a divorce. I could have walked away without ever looking at myself. And I almost did.
However something deep in my soul (plus a whole lot of loving support and guidance from our mentors ) made me stay. From the moment I first saw my husband I recognized him as a part of my soul. I had seen his innate goodness, reverence of G-d, commitment to Torah, depth. And although I didn’t consciously frame marriage as rectification back then, I already intuited it. I chose to remain in the marriage. I am so grateful I did.
I learned with time that I had my own “limp” and I tried to work on fixing myself. I would even venture to say that The Method, my online program, grew in part out of the inner work I did in my marriage. It has not always been and is not always easy. Like life. No matter the path I would have chosen, there would have been challenges. G-d would have found a way to provide me with the obstacles I needed to become what He wants of and needs from me.
Knowing this, today I refer to challenges as Growth Opportunities. It has been a journey I would never trade. We thank G-d have a beautiful home, and refined and G-d fearing children who are good people. In his chapters on cultivating happiness in Tanya, the Alter Rebbe mentions health, sustenance and even children as material blessings. He emphasizes spiritual blessings, the life of our soul and connection to G-dliness.
Today thank G-d, in addition to the material blessings, I have an inner world that is vastly beyond anything I could ever have imagined. G-d has been my Therapist-Par-Excellence. I have been humbled, become softer and kinder. I hope and think I have grown towards truth. I learned that the only sure path to peace, happiness and living my purpose was to focus on my own soul and service of G-d. I have learned that Plan B is the real Plan A! We have not arrived but we are on the journey.
I personally understand the opinion of the holy Rogatchover Gaon is. He states that marriage is not a one-time event. Rather, he holds, every moment of their life together a man continues to marry his wife. We recommit to our marriage each day, each minute. It is a microcosm of the exhortation, “Choose life.”
Before I conclude, I would like to reference the verse from Genesis about Adam and Eve not being embarrassed by one another. Adam experienced aloneness. Then he experienced the relief that came with finding his other half. Then they were both exposed, naked in each other’s presence – and they were not embarrassed. The degree to which we can tolerate shadows in another is cognate with that to which we can hold our own wounded selves. And that ability comes from our capacity to connect with our Unwoundable Self. In that place there is no embarrassment.
Dear friends, I hope you will receive this letter in the spirit in which it is written. I do not know what the right thing for you is but I did feel compelled to share these thoughts as you explore your decision going forward.
With love and blessings and prayers for both your well-being and that G-d’s light shine in and through you always, and with deep respect,
Shimona
I thank my husband for agreeing to my sharing these thoughts. Our intention in doing so is to help others as they seek their highest path in making of our world what G-d intended. We both thank our mentors for their love, support and guidance.
Rabbis are not mental health professionals. Don’t be so naive to think they know everything beyond their expertise..
Wow! Or maybe it just means that they remained quiet about their abusive spouses- do you really believe that abusive relationships only began when therapists became “popular”? Only, in those days, there was simply less tolerance for divorce!
I’m the commenter #101. It is so hard. I dated my ex for 3 months, and since it was my first relationship, didn’t listen to my gut telling me to stop…
Solution: Date for a long time! Get to know all their secrets, and share yours , bc the deepest secrets whichever u don’t say b4 u r engaged will come back to haunt you at the wrong time!
Yes, that was my experience too, at least in part! After 6 years of her mood swings, laziness, manipulation and finally infidelity, it was my ex-wife who filed for divorce! (Despite rabbinic telling me that I should seek a divorce, I was like an abuse victim, still trying to work it out.)
The only difference is that she thank G-d never remarried, so she can’t hurt another spouse. I, on the other hand, went through a long healing process, and am now happily married for many years.
If you follow the mitzvah of “aseh lecha rav” you can skip the advice of people who only know their world.
There’s a mitzvah in the Torah to write a get.
In certain situations that is preferable to staying married.
Stop telling people that they can handle being sworn at, have things thrown at them, drunkeness, or being attacked.
That *is* abuse, and this behavior is unacceptable in any marriage, let alone a Torah marriage.
Getting out of such a situation is saving a life, which is a mitzvah that overrides even Shabbos.
You would be amazed at how often it is that the ABUSER is the one to end the marriage. Because they are completely emotionally unaware, they think any problems are all the fault of their spouse, not them, so they decide to “move on” to finally have the adoring spouse that they feel they deserve !
If the hashgocha protis is that you are supposed to meet and marry a certain person, possibly even bring down children together, suffer for a certain amount of time, and then after trying in every possible way to honor the commitment you made under the chupa, and speaking to qualified therapists , rabbis, and mashpiam realizing there is truly no hope so then giving or receiving a gett ? You are not running away from your personal hashgocha protis, but that part of your journey is over and now you must heal and resume living.
you should know that you’re not alone. I too was terribly abused in my marriage. it got to the point when I can barely come home,due to an abusive spouse and extended abusive family. althogh things are more stable now, I wish someone would’ve have told me many years ago, The truth!! that abuse is abuse, and you run when it’s early enough, not when things are so messed up, that it’s almost no point to leave anymore. there’s much more I can write, please whoever reads this get help when it’s still early enough, otherwise things will just be… Read more »
I wanted to wait till all the comments to post: My husband and I both frum but after after first child I felt like I was in an impossible situation. He developed mood swings that resulted in verbal, and on one occasion, physical abuse…after Tishrei one year I had had enough and everyone supported my decision to leave, even my husband’s parents. I had spoken with a bros din and secular attorneys and everything was in place to “start over” and then I came across a letter from the Rebbe that completely changed my mind…it was printed in other publications.… Read more »
You comment to #88 is quite shocking and beyond insensitive.
I am the last person to promote divorce even in many difficult situations, but when it’s that excruciatingly painful as indicated by 88’s comment, it’s probably a Mitzvah to divorce.
These words are used as mud that people throw until it sticks… Bottom line: G-d Almighty not only gives us what we can handle but also, what we need and what is custom tailored for us.
When we get what we don’t want we are not supposed to look for reasons or a way out, because G-d Almighty in his infinite kindness will give us that, our job as Jews is to elvate and fix the darkness not run from it
The biggest mental health issue here is staying or encouraging one to stay in an abusive marriage.
Thank you Shimona for telling us what real life is about. I wish you would’ve told us when you were our highschool teacher, but maybe you didnt have the knowledge then that you have now. I wish we would learn that life has challenges and that if we see problems in our husbands, “OMG, poor me that I married him. I must get out. I’m too good for that.” Just the opposite, the more good I am, the more “growth opportunities” i get (love that term btw). While I understand your article might not be for every situation, it spoke… Read more »
kind a delusion. when my parents want to divorce(always) i work hard to not let it happen. but after my dad die (to early for my opinion) and till now i think that it my gilt too, not only my mom. somehow i always against divorces,generally , but in particular i always agree(never say this but agree) not long time ago among my friends and acquaintance was epidemy 6 couples in one year divorce. and wife was initiator. all cases 3-4 kids and woman was pretty sure that he cane remarried much beter with rich successful younger guy. after year… Read more »
Again, our job is to make it work, just because there is a way out it doesn’t mean we should take it.
Suicide and divorce are very similar…nothing positive comes from them even though they represent to the pain, they only represent new and BIGGER problems
Divorce must be an absolute last option. It is appropriate in some situations but it comes with its own pains. The lesson we should all draw from this is that pre-marriage education needs to be improved. Frum communities need to be more honest about health issues (if we all are more open about it and better educated then it will be less of a stigma). There needs to be more practical, day to day reality type issues in addition to the loftier ideals of marriage. Also, people need to know who to talk to when a real issues arises. Rabbanim… Read more »
I am sure that you will agree that your assessment of divorce as a result of “not having fun in your marriage” is very different than reaching a point when you are trying to figure out how to commit suicide every day but not have it look like one and holding back not because of halacha but because how could you do that do your children ? ( and you know the other parent isn’t capable of raising them ) Welcome to a day in the life of an abused spouse – this is our reality and this is why… Read more »
You’re trying to turn back the clock to when divorce was unheard of and a tremendous stigma for the spouse and the children.
You should have kept your thoughts to yourself.
I am a single 29 year old .I am open to share with those who want to hear about my observation s of older peoples out look to understand standard ing reality as a couple. [email protected]
It seems that all the pro-divorce posts have one thing in common: if someone is not having fun in a marriage (due to the spouse’s abuse, mental illness, etc.) then it is grounds for quitting and this is the problem… Just because a marriage is hard, uncomfortable, painful or borderline impossible it doesn’t mean the answer is quit G-d Almighty married every yid at Har Sinai and look how many of us are abusive (only 10% of Jews keep Shabbos!) and yet after 3500 years Hashem hasn’t divorced even one of us after all the mistreatment (think about many Jews… Read more »
I agree with the author wholeheartedly that divorce should be the last option. But we aren’t Catholics and divorce is allowed in Torah. I was not aware of the mental illness prevalent in my ex wife’s family when we got married. She has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and other members of her family have been institutionalized for periods. She is one of 9 children and of the 3 that got married; all have gotten divorced. Thank G-d I got out of that marriage after 6 years and infidelity on her part, and am happy married to an amazing… Read more »
G-d cries along with his angels when a woman/man and children are living in pain.
I hope your children have happy marriages.Would be awful advice for a child in a miserable marriage.
#79 Your advice is hardly angelic.Hope you don’t relay this advice to your friends or loved ones.
Nothing stands in the way of one’s yechida shbe nefesh…if one spouse refuses to quit on the other one, the Rebbe promises that the other one will come around “by hook or by crook”….words from the heart eventually enter the heart, even a sick heart
Or maybe the victim starts being abused at the beginning of the marriage and stays for the sanctity of the marriage trying to make it work out of hope their abusive spouse will change…
Thank goodness you never comment, and this comment was not necessary and incomprehensible to boot.
Just recognize the fact that every individual couple faces unique issues and there is no one size fits all solution for this complicated matter.
There are some very detailed letters from the Rebbe about what happens spiritually when someone gets divorced.
Read those letters and you will realize that it’s better to “suffer” with your “sick spouse” rather than cause the Hashem and the melachim to suffer until the end of time
A learned Rabbi with decades of experience that has seen and dealt with 1000s of cases is more capable than any mental health “professional”
You have a person who dates another person for 3 or 4 months and spends 100 of hours talking to another person. Then there is as much as four months of high pressure time (engagement/wedding planning) where people’s true side comes out. Then there is the wedding day, then there is “the first year”, then there is kid #1 and all the challenges with parnasa and everything else…
After all that, now that things are tough…I finally realize my spouse has mental illness and I just ignored/missed all the signs…
Come on…
“people had happy marriages”
What are you basing this statement on?
50 or 100 years ago people simply stayed imprisoned in abusive marriages. There was zero tolerance for divorced folk.
Thank you, Shimona, for your honesty and bravery.
There are 3 core human needs. 1. Safety 2. Satisfaction 3. Connection
Whether you stay or leave, it is important to ensure that these basic needs are met.
I suffer from mental illness. And there are times when it is tough on all of us. however with patience, medecine and counceling we work to have a good marriage and were blessed with good kids B”H,
Your comment reflects the fact that you have been lucky enough to not understand what abuse is. If you did understand, you wouldn’t be able to make the comment that abuse isn’t a reason to end a marriage. If you or a family member had experienced abuse, you would most certainly not be able to casually say a spouse should stay in an abusive marriage. What defines abuse is another discussion. Not everyone can claim abuse. To understand what abuse really is, these books may be helpful: I’m so confused. Am I being abused? By Lisa Twersky The shame borne… Read more »
“If rabbonim haven’t admitted that there isn’t mental illness, maybe there isn’t” – maybe that means that they are not mental health professionals to make that call. You wouldn’t go to a doctor for a psak and you don’t go to a rabbi for a mental health diagnosis. Problems arise when people don’t pay attention to who should be dealing with what.
Well said!
The writer of this article is dead on accurate While i dont judge someone in abusive situations there is dass torah writen on that. The pele yoetz says what one should do if there is an abusive hisband look it up and see for yourselves. Also the gemara in sotah clearly says that infidelity by the husband is not a deal breaker nor anger… This is contrary to popular secular thought. I think in light of all of these things maybe marriage is more than an agreement but an unbreakable bond. Much like when the bais hamildash was destroyed it… Read more »
Hey, sounds like 50 or 100 years ago no frum Jews dealt with any serious familial issues. I guess we just had perfectly happy husbands and wives all over the place. I wish we were living back then in those perfect times. Better yet, I wish we could be back in Europe. Oh, what a heaven on earth to have lived in Europe 70 years ago…
Crazy therapists, they came in and ruined everything…
“If G-d gave you a sick spouse, it is not for you to throw away but for you to cure!!! This was what the Rebbe taught us: the world and all the issues we confront are there for us to fix and perfect…not run from” If you yourself have not been trapped in a marriage with a mentally sick abusive spouse, then please do not give well-meaning pep talks about a horrifying experience you were spared & BH you know nothing about its physical & emotional effects on the well spouse and family. To #55 – you are truly a… Read more »
50 or 100 years ago we did not have the possibility or hope of another way of life. The idea of divorce was still a stigma and women had no means of supporting themselves outside their husbands. Now that both spouses work and help with taking care of children, it’s just easier. You are correct but I wonder statistiically how many of those marriages were truly loving and healthy ones?
Divorce is NOT a solution it just replaces the old problem with a new and BIGGER problem…
Thank you so much for sharing these inspiring words of hope within this beautiful article
50 or 100 years ago no frum jew dealt with therapists, and people had happy marriages and the divorce rate was much lower…this is a measurable fact
Said…Marriage is not 50/50 and it doesn’t take two…
Marriage is 100/100…I have to do 100% no matter what even if the other side does less than 100% or even if the other side does 0%…over time my effort will cause the other side to come around, even against all odds, This is the Rebbe’s promise: do everything you can and let 🙂 Almighty take care of the miracle part
no simple answers
In Yiddishkeit, there is nothing that comes before the union of husband wife, not even Hashem’s Name (ie erase My Name to save the marriage). Mental illness, abuse and all the other REAL issues are not reasons to end a marriage. Yes they make the marriage difficult and almost impossible at times…but we have to remember what the Rebbe said so many times:
G-d Almighty has created you, your spouse and the situation and it is your job to make it work and make a dira even within the greatest of darkness
Its not easy but it is possible
While these sentiments were intended for a specific situation the undertones are quite apparent.
The comments are also reflective of a general negative attitude towards divorce in our community.
When dealing with divorce the only person that we need to include in the equation is HaShem, your spouse and a very good therapist! I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen posted spouses asking advise from the masses such as Balaboostas or Chabad Moms and some are the responses are just plain unhealthy and dangerous. The most important thing my kallah teacher ever taught me was to keep everyone out of my marriage. I understood this early on, whenever I had a problem and would vent to a friend, that friend would make it seem outlandish that my… Read more »
This article was not meant to generalize every single marriage case in the entire world. As much as we are ego centric, we have to take ourselves out of the equation and understand that this article was written for a certain type, it goes without saying that cases of abuse warrant divorce.
But for those needing a disclaimer due to lack of comprehension maybe COL should add this to the article.
Just like the wedding needs two people PRESENT!! Inorder to stay together and avoid divorce at all costs, it takes TWO people to recognize there is a problem and be PRESENT to work it out!!
I am the product of divorce, but that was necessary since my father was abusive. That said I understand the ramifications all too well. However there are still times people rush to divorce, me included. When things got tough that was always always my first instinct. It took a lot of therapy to not always seek a way out and work through. I have many friends who’ve confided in me that they regret their divorce and only did so out of community pressure, since there was so much gossip surrounding their marriages. But once they divorced they were left alone… Read more »
all the traits you described kind, loving, vicious and cruel all in one day a roller coaster of emotion. Like I like to say, I never know which personality or who I will be waking up to. It takes lots of work and strength to be married to someone with any illness. Mental illness is the worst because it gets the least amount of sympathy or help from the community. Only when I started seeing a non jewish therapist was I able to truly grasp the scope of the illness. When one is sick with a physical illness, there is… Read more »
Bravery would be to write how she overcame her difficulties and what they were.
She doesn’t have to disclose intimate details on a public forum but let’s keep it real.Many couples have had bumps in the road.
Perhaps giving tips as to what helped her overcome those obstacles would have been more fruitful.
Lovely and flowery but zero practical advise. Get real and down to earth. A good marriage is hard work. Sometimes it is workable and successful, sometimes for the benefit of all it is not. My parents divorced when I was 12 and happily married for 53 years. This article doesn’t say much.
This frum husband and wife team- he’s a Rabbi as well as a lincensed mental health professional, are truly outstanding and he fully understands the difference between unsalavageable marriage with a partner with mental illness or two emotionally healthy people capable or working on the relationship who just have issues .
It’s never “too late” . People find get married and remarried everyday of all ages and circumstances. There isn’t an “age” or circumstance limit to find love and experience happiness! For you life begins NOW. I read a memior of a man who was on death row for 20yrs for a crime he did not commit or even had no nexus too altogether, he was let out a few years ago along with two of his friends also unfairly imprisoned, and he would have every reason to feel better and that life passed him by, he was 17 at the… Read more »
Is pedophilia or your husand molesting your own daughters also a tikun?
I would hope that the author would be careful with articles as such when addressing such a painful topic.
Food for thought.
The Rebbe was not be pro abuse and disrespect in a marriage.
By the grace of G‑d, Brooklyn, New York Greeting and Blessing: In reply to your notification of the date of your wedding to take place with G‑d’s help [on]…….. I send you herewith my prayerful wishes that it take place in a happy and auspicious hour, and that you build an everlasting Jewish home based on the foundations of the Torah and Mitzvohs, as they are illuminated with the inner light of the Torah, that is the Teachings of Chassidus. With blessing of Mazaltov Mazaltov /Rebbe’s Signature/ The home must be built on “the foundations of the Torah and Mitzvos.”… Read more »
Can someone please clarify once and for all why it is “believed” that the Rebbe didnt speak of divorce? and if so then why do we have the concept of a Gett?and if it was spoken about ..can you please share? ty
very well said!
If Rabbonim don’t acknowledge that there is mental illness, maybe there isn’t…sometimes we have to realize that we are biased
First you need to have mental health professionals on board and seeing what you see since we cannot be objective on our own, plus the professionals have the training to know whether it mental illness or something else (or, forgive me, if you are the problem and are just hiding behind her issues). Once that is clarified the professionals need to speak to your Rov. It’s a mistake to assume one can self diagnose or that Rabbonim can pick up the subtleties of mental illness. A good Rov works hand-in-hand with the family therapist or psychologist. Also thankfully gender bias… Read more »
Most frum people that think divorce is a good idea, claim that there is mental illness…
Just because a spouse is sick doesn’t mean they can’t be cured and a Yetzer hara that is out of control is not “incurable mental illness”
If G-d gave you a sick spouse, it is not for you to throw away but for you to cure!!! This was what the Rebbe taught us: the world and all the issues we confront are there for us to fix and perfect…not run from
Mrs. Tzukernik has written a good article that is much appreciated. She is speaking to the Jewish ideal of marriage. This is a message that must be emphasized and taught over and over again. Divorce, although certainly appropriate in some circumstances, has to always be seen as an absolute last resort. I think the impression most people have is that all marriages come with challenges and, even though the issues are serious (i.e. NOT of the ‘socks in the wrong hamper’ variety), most situations should be worked out. Divorce is very painful and damaging to all involved. This ideal was… Read more »
My relative was in Yechidus with the Rebbe and told the Rebbe that he was in a very tough situation (the Rebbe agreed) and that he couldn’t deal with it and he wanted a way out. The Rebbe told him that by dealing with the hardships and working through the impossibilities he will become great. The Rebbe said the Reason why Avraham Avinu is Avraham Avinu is because he had 10 tests (he didn’t look for a way out, he recognized the “hardships” as tests not “impossibilities” and therefore the very thing that one might think you have to run… Read more »
that there is something remiss re shidduch system. There appears to be very little practical advice or preparation/recognition of the inevitable troubles and downsides in all marriages, eg problems with in-laws, intimacy, health, children, finance, employment, etc etc.
Straight from the mouth of Rebetzin Shula Kazen:
When your spouse speaks nice, he is speaking to you.
But when he shouts, or insults you, he is speaking to the WALL behind you”
As a teacher, I personally have seen the effect that divorce has on children. It is very destructive.!!!!!
Every couple is a new world In general is a process of growing , and if this process is normal , meaning 2 healthy individuals , they make it work and then they can look back and see how Great was and is When there is adultery , things are different , more when there is a question al lo Halacha if they can stay married Or if there is a continuous physical damage , or if someone is mentally ill, rl , then you don’t solve the situation with a chassidishe vort Everyone has a specific nisayon that can’t… Read more »
The Rebbe said that he didn’t want the Beis Din in CH to do gitten (and it doesn’t) and those few people that the Rebbe mentioned Beis din, it was for the purpose of fixing the marriage, read the letters they are available online in Hebrew, someone who worked for the Rebbe for over 40 years told me that the Rebbe believed anything and everything is Fixable and that no marriage is Hopeless
Regardless of whether you agree with divorce or not, the Torah teaches us that a marriage/shidduch is NOT AN ACCIDENT, it comes from G-d Almighty Himself and as the 9th posuk from the Rebbe’s 10 pesukim goes:
“If he says he tried and he failed, don’t believe him (that he tried) and if he tries and succeds (then know that he tired)
If you try and you really want it, where there is a will there is a way, it might not be perfect, or even what you want, but it’s doable
This is real and true. Thank you Shimona.
to #1: I don’t want my friends to just be supportive. I want my friends to challenge me when needed, to tell me when I can do better & try, as tactfully as possible, to save me from making stupid, life-altering mistakes
The author does say she doesnt have the answer, she is not a therapist etc.
i did understand that she is not telling us we mustnt divorce etc as you suggest she should have written.
I really dont think she blames anyone for divorcing, thats not what i got from this articel Just points to ponder on before that decision
Perhaps the comments here balance out the article, so whomever Mrs. Tzukernik is writing too, if she reads the comments, will have a fuller set of ideas to think about.
Tragically, this is a perfect description of a situation that cannot be fixed: “… where there is mental illness and the person is uninterested in working through the issues or incapable of insight and self-responsibility” This is not a marriage, this is not mere discomfort leading to personal growth, this is hell on earth and the Torah BH does not demand that we must live out our years (which will be horribly affected by the unspeakable stress and suicidal thoughts) in such a matzav. Yes, divorce is a horror for children of any age, but at least they will have… Read more »
Refreshing to read some honesty on this forum,yet I don’t find this article to be one written responsibly.
When one writes about divorce,one should include when divorce is appropriate and even healthier for both parties.
That is missing from this article.
Which rabonim have been of help?
I am struggling with a spouse with mental illness and have not found any rabonim to be helpful.
Thanks
Sometimes it’s more harmful for the children if the parents stay married, especially if the husband is harming his wife and/or children by living there.
GETTing divorced landed on me like the matching bracelets and my ‘marriage’ did, against my will. It was as hard as you can’t imagine but that’s what my kids and I had to go through I guess. Anyone can have their opinions about me themselves and others but I wouldnt have it any other way. Tachlis, is there a secondtime Shadchan in the house? Editor at col knows me
I agree that marriage takes a lot of hard work and much effort.
Each couple is different and has different issues to work through.
However,both partners have to be willing to work on the marriage.If one partner refuses help or treatment ,the marriage is not a partnership.
No woman should be in marriage where she is a victim or martyr for the sake of being married.
Two frienda of mine were abused physically by their spouses.(children included )
Please discuss and elaborate on tikun.
Those who invoke God invoke peace and serenity
Those who invoke the Rebbe invoke martyrdom (why this is so is another discussion)
Those who invoke themselves increase the pain of themselves and others.
The kesuba outlines what is required in a marriage.
When the contract is broken and the partners are not prepared to reconcile and address the issues,the Holy Torah allows for divorce.
There are plenty tractates on the topic.
I find this article wrong advice ,albeit thoughtful with good intent.
Please let the professionals that deal with trauma,mental illness ,addiction,infidelity and dysfunction do the work they were trained to do, and guide people accordingly.
You are not a therapist. You don’t have all of the information.
It is just ego on your part to feel the need to publicize your letter. Look inside your self again. Its offensive.
the book “first kill all the marriage counselors” might help, (it helped a lot of people
In the frum world, getting divorced (especially with children) is an excruciating process, and the aftermath is emotionally, financially, socially devastating. There’s nothing selfish about it.
Your words are a breath of fresh air as we deal with day to day Growth Opportunities. Thanks for your openness and caring to share.
This romanticization of being married makes it sound like a woman should feel ashamed if she divorced, and therefore by extension it does not sound sincerely supportive of a woman in a situation who really needs a divorce.
Firstly this article is brilliant and I love the way it is written . And I can relate from every direction. Secondly I got divorced after a year and a half of pure torture and abuse by a charming but extremely sick man (emotionally ) I remarried and experienced very similar to the above article . When You are in the “right ” marriage and yiu know it even though things can be tough sometimes you know that in your gut that your marriage is a healthy one and therefore you work through issues and grow together as a couple… Read more »
a happy marriage isnt a condition , it’s a decision !
you have no idea what your talking about. The Rebbe defenetely agreed if necessary. You can feel blessed that you have no clue what it means to need a divorce
I have been married 40+ years, but I have watched family friends’ marriages crumble. In an ideal world Mrs. Tzukernik’s blog is admirable but remember…it takes 2 to tango and if the other party isn’t willing to rethink, whats to talk about?
It isn’t your place to make or to approve/disapprove. Like #2, don’t pressure anyone to stay married OR to divorce. It’s not your business.
Divorce is NOT a solution it just replaces the old problem with a new and BIGGER problem…
Thank you so much for sharing these inspiring words of hope within this beautiful article
What are the sources, to all those concepts you mention?
If you find this is pertinent to you, please, I beg you, put aside your ego, humble yourself, and really take in and internalize what the author is saying. She speaks Emes. And I speak from long experience. I was ready to walk away from my marriage numerous times during those first several rocky years. We both came from dysfunctional homes and had to unlearn, and learn, a lot. Now, nearly thirty years later, I thank Hashem regularly that I didn’t leave, and that the husband of my youth and father of my children is still my partner in life.… Read more »
There were instances in which the Rebbe told a spouse to go to a Bais Din, upon hearing of what was going on in the marriage. In other words, there are definitely cases in which our Rebbe, in keeping with Shulchan Aruch, did not hesitate to tell a spouse in CERTAIN KINDS of seriously troubled marriages, to do the mitzvah of halachic divorce. NOT that divorce is a mitzvah! But when there are CERTAIN KINDS of seriously troubled marriages, it is a mitzvah to divorce in accordance with all of the particulars outlined in Shulchan Aruch. The Torah was not… Read more »
Your words are honest, and I commend you for sharing. Most of my friends that left their marriages,left because of conditions that were not tolerable in a marriage. Before one leaves a marriage, there is much contemplation and thought that goes into that decision. For example,in the instance of abuse ,staying together to complete one’s “tikun” is not the best advice. Before suggesting lofty thoughts and sentiments,your friend may be in a marriage that is destroying her body, soul and spirit.And perhaps she may need different support at this time.Unconditional love,empathy and no judgement. . Unless you know the trutth… Read more »
Is the worst thing to do. ….
U have to see your spouse as your self and to do every thing u can to save him and you well make the best company for u and if u both see it is hard go togeter to a Rabbi which is a friend and smart.
don’t forget אשתו כגופו ,ואוהבו יותר מגופו
I was stuck in a marriage for just over a decade to a woman who went to lengths to hide severe mental health issues which came right to the fore after our wedding and wreaked havoc throughout our marriage. It was like living with two people, one sane, smart, and sensible, and the other cruel, destructive, and utterly senseless. And each day (sometimes several times a day) different one’s emerged. Cold, Loving. Sweet, Angry. Kind, vicious. In our case, no amount of therapy or marriage counselling helped since it depended on which persona showed up to the sessions and anything… Read more »
Thank you for Sharing your heart, your sincerity and desire to “choose life” are shouting thru your letter. May G-d bless that your words enter into the hearts of his children, may we “choose life”.
I could not agree more!!!!
There is not even one letter from the Rebbe that says such a thing, in fact the Rebbe writes that the Rebbeim didn’t even use the word “divor…” because the situation is so undesirable even if justified.
Thank you for your honesty. So rare and so refreshing.
I fully understand and appreciate your intentions your thoughtfulness and blatant decency for another Jew. Contemplating my own situation. (Not intended to refute your words…… in a few very simple words here) Many years ago my engagement my wedding was forced upon me. By parents family and family friends. Due to overly burdensome pressures, I gave in. Needlesssly to mention the marriage fell apart. The divorce – 7 years of lies deception embarrassment with psychological and emotional utter torture. The final court papers were a happier moment in my life then the wedding. I am single now. ״Never again״ I… Read more »
While divorce is not a first option, it can be the BEST option. Your job, as a friend, is to merely be supportive.