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Wednesday, 10 Adar II, 5784
  |  March 20, 2024

Why the Crown Heights Stalemate

Dr. Meir Shlomo Spinner deplores the stalemate in Crown Heights leadership. In response, an official says progress is made. Full Story

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Dr. Spinner
December 24, 2013 4:59 pm

Well, Eli Cohen chose not to respond online,
and the discussion has been relegated to the back pages for now because of lack of interest.
To be continued…

Dr. Spinner
December 19, 2013 1:18 pm

To #65, my heart cries for you and those like you. Where is the money indeed? I believe the money is there, mostly tied up in real estate, but with no real transparency or accountability to the shchuna this remains only speculation. Rabbi Cohen- I read your response and found out it inadequate. There are many unanswered questions, but I’ll start with: You state- “a number of residents who have been involved in the election process over the past election cycles petitioned the Beis Din of Crown Heights and asked that, before we move to elections, the Beis Din should… Read more »

Poor in Crown Heights
December 19, 2013 2:38 am

I’m a poor family in Crown Heights and i’m sorry to say but there has been close to ZERO help for the poor here besides some potatoes and carrots distributed on Pesach. Bring Moshe Rubashkin and Dr Lang back!! they’re the only ones who did allot for the poor and downtrodden of Crown Heights, real people doing real work!. I ask, where is HOUSING for the poor and single parent families? where are CLOTHING vouchers before holidays for the poor children of poor families? where is money for CAMPS for large families? there has been nothing and if new people… Read more »

Dr. Spinner
December 18, 2013 1:03 am

I’m glad that you enjoy this conversation, but I have news for you, even if every single one of those who took time to comment would be a representative (Netzig) of a shul in CH (which as you obviously know is not the case) you still don’t have the participation of about 20-30 additional shuls (you don’t even have the correct number of shuls that exist in CH). You get my point? The people voted with their feet, NOBODY cares, because the institutions you are trying to revive play no role in anybody’s life anymore, Crown Heights moved on while… Read more »

Dr. Spinner
December 17, 2013 7:40 pm

I’m glad so many of view took an interest.
This is precisely what is needed.
If you really wish to make a difference b’poel,
and not remain in the peanut gallery
have your shuls send n’tzigim.

Clapman
December 16, 2013 10:59 pm

So… What happened exactly?

Reply
December 16, 2013 7:21 pm

To comment #60 this is a test from above

elections
December 16, 2013 11:56 am

We can’t have elections nor netzigim until:
1. Rabbi Osdoba pulls out from court his personal complaint against Rabbi Braun
2. All parties return to the zablo table and get all their issues resolved by the only Beis Din that they themselves sign to listen to.

corruption
December 16, 2013 11:48 am

I see people are very ignorant or just evil. I’m not saying that the JCC/Vaad are doing a great job, far from it, they haven’t pay Rabbonim for who knows how long. I just want to say that things are not as we from the outside think. The JCC’s funds from program by state and city are very restricted and controlled with periodical audits this is beside the cut down in programs by government in the last few years. Today everything is known and linked so there is no room for play around and corruption. Just to say a general… Read more »

to #56
December 16, 2013 10:39 am

you should find out if your shul sent a N’tZig last January or not. If they did not, find out why and this goes for everyone else in the community.

To # 51
December 16, 2013 6:48 am

I am speaking for myself and SO ARE YOU!!!

THIS IS THE ELECTION
December 16, 2013 3:34 am

By reading all the comments.. there is almost universal agreement that: a) the Vaad & CHJCC are corrupt & must go… b) that R’s Schwei & Braun are unwanted by the community & should be relieved of their positions.

That’s the vote based on surveying the comments. Now we need to act.

I could be wrong, but I think we need N’tzigim to represent the feelings of the community.

Perhaps we should get our shuls to elect them

to#52
December 16, 2013 1:20 am

Who cares?

Please don’t fabricate
December 15, 2013 11:17 pm

Some of you are making it sound like there are some huge wars going on in Crown Heights. Do you guys live here??? It seems pretty quiet and peaceful to me.

Some people have an uncanny talent to fabricate fights and strife were there aren’t any. (at least not on the surface. Yes, I’m sure there are some individuals fighting in some corner, but 99.99% of C.H. residents see none of it).

Moshiach now!

to#46
December 15, 2013 11:09 pm

Speak for yourself.

Rabbi Osdoba is head and shoulders above this
December 15, 2013 10:43 pm

He and Rabbi Segal work tirelessly to spread Torah. They don’t give in to political pressure against Torah on family issues and care about halacha. A Rov in Eretz Yisroel forbade Rabbi Osdoba to sit on any Bais Din with Braun and the Rosenberg b”d was not signed to the roiv and, keneged halacha, no m’heichan dantuni was given when asked, let alone a proper one. To criticize the one Rov of the three that the Rebbe praised without caring about how halacha works, and how rabbonim can only pasken al pi halacha to have validity is unfair and unjust.… Read more »

intentional obsfucation
December 15, 2013 10:42 pm

complicated issues are intentionally overlapped. rabbonim, chjcc, vaad hakohol. would be interesting if there’s agreement (between these bodies and all ch residents) as to what the boundaries of each are. then there’s how each body should be elected. but this post is about two entities vaah hakohol and rabonim – which should be separated. I agree with what some write here – a body which deals with general, social, financial, political community issues should be elected by one vote per adult, doesn’t matter gender or family position and certainly doesn’t need shul netzigim – a concept that just complicates matters… Read more »

time came
December 15, 2013 7:32 pm

To have leaders. Dovid Sputz. Meir Kahanov Moshe Drizen kind of people. Lets save the clowns for Lag B’omer Parade.

to sruly clapman
December 15, 2013 7:07 pm

If CH was a public company it would be trading now at 00000000000.1 Cent on a heavy positive trading day!

To 38
December 15, 2013 7:07 pm

What’s wrong in mentioning a persons past when it goes to show on his personality, is a man know for machlokas, thrown out of nyu, destroyed yeshiva and made machlokas, you forgot to mention he was involed in the fight in 770 for two years, now he put his sights on spreading hate and mahlokas to the entire crown heights

To # 30
December 15, 2013 6:45 pm

Agreed 100%
All this nonsense about the Smichah (nonsense because the Rabonim involved validated it) is nothing compared to a Rov going against his own Smicha and refusing to accept a Psak Din that he agreed to abide by.

G-d have mercy on us. השם ירחם עלינו
December 15, 2013 6:20 pm

איש את אחיו חיים בלעו

We are the laughing stock of the Yiddishe world.

Our Rebbe did not deserve this…..

Pinchos Woolstone
December 15, 2013 4:27 pm

Until all three Rabbonim are sitting together, no fundamental change for good will occur in Crown Heights.
Unfortunately, I do see this happening in the foreseeable future.
The Rebbe zy”a must be suffering from this sad situation.
May HaShem have Rachmonus on us and send Moshiach now.

to #41
December 15, 2013 2:46 pm

Are you suggesting that there is no fraud in government?

Are you suggesting that there is no fraud in the CHJCC?

So please show use where they used money received to assist the needy?

# 42
December 15, 2013 2:44 pm

Did you not notice the 😉 in my comment.

It was meant to be sarcastic.

These are the excuses we have heard over the years from the CHJCC as to why no progress has been made.

Chill out, relax 😉

To #40
December 15, 2013 1:24 pm

CHJCC corruption has been going on for decades. Don’t blame this on Maple Street or any of your other “issues.” The corruption was in full swing way before any of these “issues.”

Now WHO is the idiot? Or are you just plain clueless?

Misunderstanding about certain funds
December 15, 2013 1:00 pm

# 17
CHJCC does not distribute gov’t money to the needy.
However wonderful it would be to have an agency that supplements family budgets for those who need, that is not the mission of most gov’t funds, which are closely monitored and must be used for the purpose the funds were intended for.

To #30
December 15, 2013 12:26 pm

Oh please, i hope you are being sarcastic, if not your simply an idiot. It’s all because of Rabbi Osdobo and the Kashrut, and before that it was because of the Shomrim and their “hate” sites, and before that it was because we didn’t have a full Beth Din, and before that it was because of the Hershkops CURRENTLY 5774: It’s because of the Maple Street Shul Controversy 😉 The money is all sitting in the CHJCC waiting for all these “issues” to work out. Once these issue are dealt with, only then will the cabal use it to help… Read more »

To Sruly #38
December 15, 2013 12:20 pm

Did you get threatening phone calls?

Sruly Clapman
December 15, 2013 11:31 am

I would like to apologize to Rabbi Eli Cohen for mentioning
( maybe in not the nicest way ) his past employment history, there was no need to bring it up.
I’m sure he only means well, and tries his hardest to help the community, BH he raised a beautiful Mushpacha and seems like a sincere guy.

TO # 36
December 15, 2013 11:10 am

Agree re: Russian politics, but Rabbi Osdoba is not, & never was RUSSIAN.

The young need to get together
December 15, 2013 10:34 am

and start a new Vaad and New Rabonim. The old Russian politics just don’t fly anymore.

New idea.
December 15, 2013 9:58 am

New elections for rabbonim.

Any rov who gets 300 votes is a rov on a bais din.

If someone gets 600 they can appoint an additional rov to serve with them.

After the election rabbonim can pool their leftover votes.

The result will be that group of 300 members of the community will be seen as a kehila with their rov.

The rabbonim of these “kehilas” will organize a bes din.

This way, everyone will feel like they have a voice.

One thing everyone agrees on
December 15, 2013 9:39 am

The CHJCC is totally corrupt & self serving. Add to that the constant fighting between Rabbi Osddoba & the others on the “Bais Din” (how can we have a Beis Din if it’s always 2 v 1 on every matter, small or large) and you have a community in turmoil. We are a breeding ground for suffering & we see it, politically and most importantly, spiritually. Dr. spinner is right. Eli Cohen- he always has excuses. as long as the CHJCC & it’s sub division of sperlin, Spielman etc continue to feather their own nests and make sure we don’t… Read more »

Has it been only 3 years?
December 15, 2013 9:36 am

Well I can’t wait for the next round of Machlokis and hatred to rip through the community again. we should have elections every month.

to # 30
December 15, 2013 8:50 am

you must be kidding!! the CHJCC has millions they dont need kashrus, and the kashrus needs to stay under rabbi osdobo for it to function properly.

and you think the rebbe didnt see the future? the rebbe said he will be the rov until moshiach comes

as for the other 2 we should have new fair elections
one never got smicha and the other its a educator does not know whats flying

agree
December 15, 2013 5:58 am

AGREE with #23 %100

kashrus
December 15, 2013 4:38 am

When the Kashrus issue is settled and in the hands of the
Vaad Hakol, then there will be funds available to pay the
Rabbonim’s salaries. Yes, the Bais din is Rabbi Schwei
and Rabbi Braun. According to the psak din Rabbi Osdoba
does not comply. It doesn’t matter if the Rebbe supported
Rabbi Osdoba then, NOW he is not listening to the psak din.

Mordy #2
December 15, 2013 3:59 am

The Rabbonim (I think most people mean S&B these days) are still very realivent to many Anash who use them for shailos… the BD is not only for suing people.

As for the Vaad and netzigim, they are only irrealivent because people ignore them. Both Spinner & Cohen make the same point above… no one seems to care! If you want to see the system of netzigim change, then volunteer and take part. It is an easy way for more shuls to function together, b’achdus, and make the Rabbainim and CHJCC more accountible to anash.

Any and All previous Rabbanim
December 15, 2013 2:11 am

should be disqualified. Obviously if they couldn’t get their act together till now – l’sheim ahavas yisrael (at the least) they don’t deserve to (attempt to) run a community.

so sad
December 15, 2013 12:25 am

The CC they do nothing to help people out in the community, we need affordable housing, and there are people that go to them time in and time out and get turned away

voting
December 14, 2013 11:37 pm

One Man, One Vote, One Time

New people
December 14, 2013 11:13 pm

We need young guys to step in and take over.

The problem
December 14, 2013 10:27 pm

the problem is Rabbis Braun and Schwei and those waiting on them for change should look elsewhere. Rabbi Osdoba is of a completely different/better caliber.

"THE RABBONIM"
December 14, 2013 10:14 pm

Eli Cohen keeps mentioning “THE RABBONIM” have said this… “the rabbonim” want that….

WHAT RABBONIM IS HE TALKING ABOUT???

Does he include Rav Osdoba in “The Rabbonim” ???

I think not.

Eli, who do you think you are fooling. In case you forgot the Rebbe considered Rabbi Osdoba one of the three “Chassidishe Rabbonim” who are all to be highly regarded — even by you and the rest of the CHCC & Vaad HaKol.

Signed,
Time for a Change!!!!!!!!!!

Joe go Sruly C #19
December 14, 2013 10:04 pm

Sruly Clapman is the type of young blood we need running this community, problem is he’s too honest.

to no. 11 - "elections"
December 14, 2013 9:57 pm

good point made. but there has got to be a way around this problem or we are stuck in the mud.

One idea might work is that when and if a question arises we ask each Rav separately for a decision. If they all agree to the same position we can follow that decision. If they don’t agree then we need to work things out until we get a unanimous opinion from all three Rabbonim.

Sruly Clapman
December 14, 2013 9:48 pm

I was at the meeting to represent the community as a Nitzig, the meeting was a JOKE!!! Rabbi Broyn and Rabbi Shvay came unannounced and wanted us to sign a form stating that the new Nitzigim would be under thier authority, and any decision we would make one day that they would object would give them the authority to thrown us out. After it was clear that people were not gonna sign, a 770 Nitzig ( always has a huge cigar in hand I won’t mention his name ) started screaming that he won’t sit around with Mechutzafim that are… Read more »

I could cry
December 14, 2013 9:28 pm

The CC should close its doors. We have so many people in out community in desperate need of help and they are no where to be seen

Netzigim
December 14, 2013 9:26 pm

Who needs netzigim?
Is it not true that their function (as understood from the Rebbe’s reference to them) was to organize the very FIRST election of rabbis?
If true, who gave the institution of netzigim permanence?

Agreed
December 14, 2013 9:25 pm

The CHJCC is completely corrupt. They get thousands of dollars people that can not put food on their table turn to them for help only to be turned away again and again.

Zaki Tamir
December 14, 2013 9:17 pm

When Tamir was elected everyone was so excited to have him in power. He uses the CHJCC as his own personal “baby” to advance his agenda. This was seen over the past weekend when his name was clearly missing from a letter of clarification from the CHJJC.
After doing some investigating it was found out that the person attorney involved with the shul mentioned in the letter is a partner of Tamir.
Something doesn’t add up here. Does Tami-r work for the CHJCC and have the communities interest in mind or are hir priorities with his law firm

listen everyone
December 14, 2013 9:08 pm

Nobody gets anything from the vaad hakohal not a penny. Nobody needs a bais din they don’t do anytjing . if someone has a din torah they do a zablah anyway. The precious vaad handed out money to needy people this vaad gives nothing and get a nothing from drizin even to give out. Who needs netzegim That’s what got us into a problem to begin with a few yechi guys said they were nitzigim of shuls and voted unbeknownst to the shuls and the members they represent. The rabbonim know well that 80% of the people are young and… Read more »

To #2
December 14, 2013 8:40 pm

Soooooo trueeeee!!!!!

@10
December 14, 2013 8:30 pm

Why not Shlomo Carlbach?

elections
December 14, 2013 8:20 pm

The main problem we will experiencing is that in the event of a question, dispute etc regarding the netzigim and elections process where, according to the bylaws, the beis din of CH should by deciding, we need all three Rabbonim to be able to seat and listen and decide. At this moment one of the Rabbis is not recognizing and following the psak of the Rosemberg Zablo Beis Din and does not come back to the table to clarify and end the dispute by getting a final psak and clear psak from the dayonim. If we run the elections without… Read more »

run Chezzi run!
December 14, 2013 8:09 pm

I strongly belive there is a need for change and I feel that there is no greater person to deliver that change than Rav Chezzi from CAY. His leadership abilities and utter ahavas yisroel is apparent in everything that he does. Its time that young blood got involved and returned the leadership of our community to the communtiy! So it is from this very forum of news that I implore you the young voters of crown heights to encourage and support Chezzi to run for the Vaad Hakol and may he be succesful in implenting true change to the schuna!… Read more »

kevin
December 14, 2013 7:32 pm

Great letter form Doctor Spinner, also pleasantly surprised that Eli Cohen responded in a respectable way.

We need elections and the beis din should make sure that the process isn’t held up by wasteful litigation.

Lastly I think its time for the role of the elected vaad and the chjcc professional staff to be clearly defined.

resident
December 14, 2013 7:15 pm

They receive many buildings from HPD to service out community with low income housing, or for that matter any form of housing, which we are so short of in this community, what happened to that?
What about the pool, why is that never fixed as they claimed they got funding for ??
It seems like they people in the council just get richer and get more housing for their own relatives.

its time
December 14, 2013 7:04 pm

its time for the women the noshim tzikonious to take over
period
end of story!!

what the heck?
December 14, 2013 6:42 pm

“The Rabbonim have stated that, although they too agree that elections are overdue – and actually have called in a letter for the process to be conducted as expeditiously as possible – the individuals have the right to air these questions and others in a hearing before the Beis Din before the schedule of the elections themselves is set. The Rabbonim have asked that the parties should agree upon a time for the hearing as quickly as possible.”

what does this mean? what individuals? how long does this airing of grievances go on?

Democracy Now
December 14, 2013 6:37 pm

election long overdue time for change

CHJCC self serving or serving the community?
December 14, 2013 6:20 pm

We live in a time where leaders are followers. and those that should be followers are leaders. Where people with personal agendas and personal businesses are members of the community council and use the community council resources to better themselves and their businesses. I would like everyone to ask one question. When was the last time that the CHJCC gave a full account of the amount of money which came in to the CHJCC and how much was spent on administration and how much was used for helping the community which they are meant to represent? In simple words if… Read more »

Corruption in the CHJCC
December 14, 2013 6:16 pm

Even before elections I would like to see transparency and accountability in the CHJCC, How much government funding was received by the CHJCC? How much of the said funding was used for administrative costs? How much of said funding was distributed to the poor?

We have seen too many times that when one person remains in a position of power for too long there is corruption. We cannot leave the same board in power without elections because it will inevitably cause corruption.

there is a boss
December 14, 2013 6:15 pm

why can any shuls be disqualified we only have orthodox Congregations in our community.

facts
December 14, 2013 5:51 pm

The CHJCC is irrelevant to most of Crown Heights. It can continue with its merry politics on its own without involving the rest of Crown Heights. Nobody really cares if they have elections or not, or who is in charge there anymore. They have become irrelevant to most people.

Assie
December 14, 2013 6:08 am

Go Meir!

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