By Elad Nehorai
There’s this myth that I’ve been hearing about a lot recently: A person needs to go to college and has no chance of providing for him or her family without it.
I’ve heard this from a few Lubavitchers that I’ve met that have been looking for jobs and found their skills sorely lacking, and their resumes too short.
To be sure, this is an issue as the Rebbe emphasized the campus scene and liberal academic thinking is not an ideal place for a frum Jew. I do know this: Technically, no one needs to go to college to get a good job or to make money.
To be sure, if someone wants to become a doctor or a lawyer, the person will have to go to college and beyond. But, especially today, college is increasingly becoming less important.
Why? Because the world is changing. Changing faster than colleges have been able to cope with. The rise of the internet, of mobile technology, and more, has resulted in a world where the necessary skills for employment can be learned on one’s own. All while not putting a person into debt or having to be in an unholy environment.
This article, then, is an attempt to just give you an idea of what’s outside of college, and where you can go to gain important skills. Don’t think of it as definitive, but it will hopefully be helpful.
Below, I’ll be listing various professions that are in high demand whose skills can be gained almost exclusively through the internet.
Computer Programmer:
It’s fascinating that the Rebbe wanted to create programs in Crown Heights for people to look computer programming because today, more than ever, programming is in such high demand, and companies are so desperately looking for employees in this area, that a college degree is almost completely irrelevant in the search process. All that matters is skill.
Thankfully, there are a slew of incredible sites to learn this skill. Here are just a few:
Codecademy: Their slogan is “Teaching the world to code,” and there’s really no better description than this. Codecademy uses hands-on learning to take you from a beginner to an expert in coding. You can learn everything from Javascript to Python.
Code School: For a more classroom-like learning environment Code School is great. They have video classes and more, and you can even learn how to build iPhone apps here, perhaps one of the most coveted skills of the new economy.
Treehouse: Treehouse is an incredible site that teaches you to, “Learn to build websites, create iPhone and Android apps, code with Ruby on Rails and PHP, or start a business.” Yeah. Check it out.
Designer:
Thanks to the advent of Photoshop, Illustrator, and other computer design tools, learning to be a designer has never been easier. Here are a few places you can learn from:
Tuts+: Tuts+ (short for Tutorials Plus) is perhaps one of the most comprehensive websites for learning creative skills with multiple sections full of articles, ebooks, and, more. Check out Psdtuts+ to learn how to use Photoshop, Vectortuts+ to learn how to use Illustrator, and Webdesigntuts+ to learn web design. There are many more areas within also, so make sure to do some exploring.
Smashing Magazine: Smashing Magazine is one of the best places to learn design (as well as coding, but it is known more for design). Like Tuts+, much of their content is free, and you can learn from beginner to advanced lessons.
Lynda: Lynda is really great for learning just about anything, but particularly design. It contains countless instruction videos for a variety of skills, and, if you’re dedicated, can have a huge payoff.
Online Marketer:
There are a lot of frum people that I see that are very interested in getting into marketing. The only problem is, they assume that because they know how to use Facebook that they are now social media experts.
Here are a few tools that will take you from a user to an expert:
Reading and writing: Yeah, you heard me. If you want to be a marketer, especially online, you need to be a great writer. Being a great writer makes you an invaluable part of a team, and is the only way your marketing will ever be polished. And the only way to do that is to read and write a lot. Forget learning rules of grammar and all that: what really matters is learning how to make your writing flow and sound natural.
Copyblogger: The fastest growing form of online marketing these days, one that, if you learn, will keep you way ahead of most of your competition, is content marketing. Content marketing is essentially about creating valuable media to an audience that will eventually become customers. The best blog to learn this skill is Copyblogger. Their website is genius, and their work is informative. They also provide ebooks and online courses.
SEOmoz: Whether you want to only focus on SEO, or you want to do another form of marketing, SEO is an essential skill to learn as a marketer. And SEOmoz is the best place to learn this skill. Besides their invaluable blog, they also have a vibrant community of SEOs and an area specifically called “Learn SEO.”
Distilled: Distilled, partners with SEOmoz, are one of the top online marketing firms, and their blog is a wellspring of essential information for anyone that wants to do online marketing.
Notice how I didn’t include any straight social media blogs? Here’s why: social media blogs are a joke. They don’t provide any good information, except for extremely basic info you’ll find in all the blogs mentioned above, without the deep analysis. If you want to do social media do me a favor: Understand that online marketing is a deep field and it’s not something you’re going to be an expert at overnight.
Online University Courses
Okay, so you still want the experience of going to college? You’re in luck. There are amazing startups and organizations being created to help people take courses from the best universities in the country. Here are some great websites for getting the great content of college courses, without all the hassles involved:
Coursera: Perhaps the leading online college platform, Coursera was started by two computer science professors from Stanford University. Coursera has grown enormously since its founding and now provides classes in engineering, humanities, medicine, biology, social sciences, mathematics, business, computer science, and more.
edX: edX has gotten the most press in this arena, mostly because it was started by Harvard and MIT. All classes are free. Although you can’t get a degree from the courses, they can provide invaluable skills from two of the top schools in the nation.
Open Culture: This is just a great website. It doesn’t have actual online classes, but links to many, and also has links to places for free language learning, free textbooks, free eBooks, and more.
The End/Beginning
Okay, everyone, that’s it. As I said, there’s much more that could be shared, and maybe some people could share some ideas in the comments. But the point here is to show how much education is becoming available online, and much of it will help make you employable.
—This blog post is by Elad Nehorai, otherwise known as the blogger Pop Chassid. You can read more of his work on his blog and his Facebook page.
In addition,we don’t have to bend over backwards to meet some employers demands.We can create businesses that treat people based on what they do,not on what they did some years prier in some college.
OK,so you will tell us what we should want from life and whether we should be happy,and then we will have to go college to meet your expectations,right? If college makes people independent ,how come most people send their kids to public schools and receive medicare when their older?if you calculate all the money religious people have to spend on educating their kids, it would well balance out all the so called handouts that they get.Get with the times,the government is part of everyone’s life, whether you like it or not. Now as for you question,yes English is my first… Read more »
Being a taxpayer I don’t like paying for that lifestyle.
Proper punctuation would be proper – and I went through Oholei Torah. Just saying.
Alright. Firstly your spelling and grammar leave much to be desired, is English your first language? you could definitely have benefited from a secular education. Now, in order. Nothing implies the WSJ is a guide to life, just a reliable source of information. Your pointing out that businesses prefer college degrees only supports the concept that one should attempt to obtain one. Beards? get with the times. Companies don’t care about beards. Taking lots of time off on the other hand does bother employers, however if you’re a good worker and you make up for lost time they get over… Read more »
Here are a couple of articles from the past week that show that a college degree is by no means a ticket to a meaningful income.
http://www.millionairecorner.com/article/job-market-prospects-dim-college-graduates-report
http://www.businessinsider.com/college-graduates-taking-low-skill-jobs-2013-4
And this is a doosie:
http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html
According to this study, it takes a doctor 18 to 27 years to “catch up” to the income of a (dare I say uneducated) UPS driver.
Bottom line. A college degree is not all it’s cracked up to be. It does however make some people feel better about themselves when they’re unemployed/underemployed.
First of all,since when is the wall street journal our Gide in life and statistics our foundation.Seond of all,if you would have a secular education,you would know that statistics are very misleading for several reasons.Of them: One,they don’t explain what is the cause and what is the effect.Is it that people who are smart and disciplined go to college,or that college makes you smart and discipline. Two,statistics don’t take into account all the variables,meaning there may be other factors involved.Most business in America have a disposition to college degrees,whether or not a degree is necessary. Three, the statistics where done… Read more »
You can keep trying to convince yourself that college is unimportant while you struggle to pay bills, can’t afford tuition, and scam every government program available. The facts are, as per the Wall Street Journal, people with a bachelors have half the unemployment rate, and make significantly more. No one intelligent says that college is necessary and without it you won’t be able to support your family, they merely point out that statistically speaking you’re significantly more likely to fail without a college degree. In summary, it’s quite simple. By not allowing your children to go to college (and furthermore,… Read more »
Grab life by the horns and go after your dreams. Although I’m not becoming a doctor is the best option for you or your future family. If I were in your shoes, I would go for a PA (physicians assistant), PT (physical therapist) or a OT (occupational therapist), or nursing. The reason being, that medical school is extremely demanding and it requires that an individual sacrifice a tremendous amount. I’m talking from experience.
Good luck!
HAHAHAHAHA
I LOVE COLLIVE 🙂
It is determined who is going to be poor or rich whatever you do
Why to go to college if every RH is determined the money that u r going to get for the all year?
Birchas Hashem hi teashir
Buy mega million Learn Torah. Daven Mitzvos with joy
Your wife and your kids are your real wealth
The problem of college not preparing people for the real world ,is well documented. Recently many new entrepreneur schools have opened up whose main intention is to bypass college and go straight into the business world,in fact many colleges themselves are also opening up such schools.Just to name one”Enstitute”,which is an apprenticeship program based in NY that completely bypasses college,and they have many companies who have agreed to higher their students.Not that I recommend the program,because don’t know much about them,but it serves as proof that the tides are turning on college.There is no reason we Lubavitcher’s should rush back… Read more »
Its sooooo crazey, I wonna be a doctor but I can’t coz my mum says I shud do graphic design! I just wanna be passioenate about my job!
To #62 Some of the fields you list will not take a student who does not have a 4 year degree even before starting the program to study. Most of the rest require 2 or 4 year degrees in order to get a license to practice in that field. Two year college/Associates degrees are college degrees. I think you are looking at people and assuming they are much less educated than they are. To #127 Those entrepreneurs and inventors you speak of? They usually have degrees in business or engineering…or both. Even the ones that didn’t finish have lots of… Read more »
May I suggest a few pointers? Do not assume you are different. You will run into temptation. Be very careful of being shomer(et) negiah and yichud. If you can, live at home. And unlike many here, I’m not assuming you live in NY. If you can, get credit for your previous studies. (Chasidus is philosophy.) Do go to a school where there is a community of frum Jews. Don’t live in a dorm. Live off campus, in or near the frum area. Get involved with the frum community, on or off campus. Remember your goal is to study, but the… Read more »
So what do you say about smartphones?
I am weighing in a second time for another point. There are two main types of work; producing something of value and service. The western worlds’ economies are mostly service economies. And that is a little bit of a problem. As manufacturing jobs have moved to different countries, western countries are producing less value. There are a lot of different types of service economy. The health care system is an example of providing a service, legal, accounting and others as well. Small businesses are the successes of any economy past, present or future. That would include not just entrepreneurs but… Read more »
you are right- he did enc those who asked him to pursue their careers so “he meant everyone” is NOT correct.The Rebbe was into everything and always turned it into a “Jewish” issue so for career minded people they can use it for the good of humanity and also for tzedaka. do NOT use the Rebbe to further enable your own lack of skills or motivation.The Rebbe worked tirelessly and knew so many different subjects.
I am surprised to see the lack of independence that young Lubavitch people have in making this decision. If you are academically-motivated and interested in pursuing a higher education, then go for it!
Do not look for approval from the CH community. Most people there do not even understand what a secular college is.
I am studying in graduate school, and am available for (free) professional guidance in getting started for a career in healthcare, specifically Medicine or Dentistry. You can email me at [email protected] with any questions you have, and I will reply with a few pointers.
I love to hear all these holy commenters against college ,while in internet which is 100 times mor dangerous than college
I honestly have to say that some people here sound completely insane. Of course there will be successful people who never went to college. That’s life. What college does is give you a step up ahead of people who never went to college. If you interviewed for a position (that typically would not need a college degree to obtain) and the choice was between you and a college graduate, I would venture to say that the employer would 9 times out of 10 choose the graduate. The other aspect of this argument is that going to college isn’t all about… Read more »
i am a frum 23 year old lubavitcher bochur that also wanted to go into computer programing and i really appreciated this article as well.
I think the message of the story (if it’s accurate) is that when the Rebbe said no college he meant everyone. Even those that think they’re the exception or those that believe that it’s the only way to make a living…
The amount of money Popack ended up making, is not really the point. Popack’s income bracket (and it should continue to grow iy”h) is a yotzei min haklal even for college graduates…
In order to take online classes Internet is needed, and which lubavitcher family has Internet these days?? Are you saying that people should get Internet?? Allot worse things are learned and seen on the Internet then in collage.
I wonder what percentage of people in the Conservative and Reform communities rely on food stamps, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax credits, WIC, Head Start, free phones etc? I doubt the number is very high. Now why do you think the numbers are so high in the frummest communities… and don’t give me this garbage about large families. Could it maybe just have something to do with the massive educational gap? Why is it that when I walk into a hospital it is always secular and modern orthodox Jewish doctors that I encounter? Based on my anecdotal observation, the secular and… Read more »
When it comes to fundraising you sure know who to ask!The educated or those with the money. How nice.The double standard.You sure like going to a frum doctor or lawyer but Gd forbid a chossid should pursue a career or interest in learning.Seems a little hypocritical to me. And wow the Rebbe himself was educated and an intellectual. I understand what colleges were like back then but that is no longer the case and who said the trade schools are holier?
Many have confused what the Rebbe stated about education. I think the majority use “excuse” by misconstruing the Rebbe’s recommendations to not get jobs/careers to support their families.
I believe the Rebbe wants all of us to develop our “potential” to the best that we can. Then we help our family and contribute to the community. I Am For diplomas from high school and college degree. No one should ever be held back from learning secular or academic learning. Man or women.
This article is way too late. This idea has been out for ages. But with a twist, there are so many more jobs other than doctor or lawyer that it is mandatory to have a degree. The most basic and common in our community being a TEACHING degree. (Others include all health and mental healtg related professions: OT, PT, SLP, and Nutritionist, counseling, and on the other end of the spectrum Accounting: a huge and ever growing field. Problem with online school: my brother went to a school like that and now can’t get a job because it is not… Read more »
and thanks 85 lol, wish i read that comment a bit earlier
For all of those who are saying negative thoughts such as “lazy crown heighters on food stamps”, Obviously these commenter have not been in that situation so they are judging. I am personally on EBT or snap (they change names often). I am not proud of it nor am I lazy about not furthering my career. I am in college and I hope to one day be able to afford food without the use of food stamps, but these comments really make me angry because… Yes right now I AM relying on food stamps because I need to eat to… Read more »
Frum Society cannot thrive on one-in-a-million strike-it-rich entrepreneurs, or even one-in-a-thousand eke-out-a-living entrepreneurs. Communities thrive with professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants).
Frum society should get married then go to College unless they have family business connections or want to stay within kodesh work. Anything else is called relying on miracles. We don’t do it with anything else so why do it with your career.
Great story. The point is made. Just want to add, and maybe it’s not my place, but making examples out of those who fall into the category of being a yoitzai min haklal as far as wealth is concerned isn’t necessarily doing those of us looking for guidance a favor. It’s easy to speak for others, but speaking for oneself is the difference maker here. Halevai that there could be more Lubavitchers in financial positions like Yossi Popack, but there aren’t, and saying a maaseh he had with the Rebbe as proof that unequivocally college won’t give you parnassa is… Read more »
That is not what science is.
I recently heard a story in the name of Reb Shmuel Isaac Poapck. He said that his son Yossi wanted to go to college so he could earn a living (this is before R. Shmuel Isaac was making $). Reb Shmuel Isaac told him that the Rebbe says not to go to college. His son said that if the Rebbe knew my circumstance, he’d agree that I should go to college (paraphrased of course). Finally Reb Shmuel Isaac told him “if you’re so sure, ask the Rebbe yourself”. Yossi went into Yechidus by himself and came out looking confused. His… Read more »
Many Chabadniks make excuses not to get an education because they are plain lazy. There is no reason for a man or woman who is struggling to support a family not to further their education in a college. This will hopefully open more doors for them and offer better opportunities. All this is besides the fact that I have seen a clear letter from the rebbe that he says that the negative influences of university do not apply with regard to touro. He then adds that it should not be a replacement for yeshiva. Someone who has spent many years… Read more »
there are many colleges you can find (stern, touro) that are geared for frum students
The Rebbe made public his view on Lubavitchers going to college. Yes, there were exceptions when the Rebbe gave people a Brochah for their studies, however, this does not change the general rule. What strikes me as odd is that people assume they know the reasoning the Rebbe had, as evidenced by comment 86 writing as if the primary reason for the Rebbe’s advice was mixed education. For MANY reasons Lubavitchers should not go to college. If someone has a passion to pursue a specific career, this is not reason in itself to disregard the Rebbe’s advice. Being a Chosid… Read more »
There are many, not appropriate, courses that colleges/universities require all students to take. The Rebbe was very correct that these are not places for frum Yidden. Even with Chabad houses abound, do you know what the topics of conversation the students bring up? Oy.
As for online learning- a whole generation of shluchim’s kids are being raised with an online education, so how can we criticize Elad’s suggestions?
sums it up nicely. a good all around approach.
The issue with secular education is not about Frum vs Fri,but about Tumah and Tahara.What ever you study becomes part of you whether you like it or not. My point about secular studies is not to say it is always forbidden,but that without a necessity it is.Now, being that the vast majority of what is taught in college is not job related or another necessary,it posses a major problem in Halacha.The main advantage of college is to show a employer you accomplished something in life.Now if Yeshivoth where respectable,than employers would treat it as a life accomplishment,provided that you might… Read more »
These days there is a big highly recognized college called touro college which specifically has programs geared for the frum community. They have separate nights for men and women and frum teachers. I personally went there and there is no college atmosphere which I beleive the rebbe was worried about. It is full of bochurim after yeshiva or married with kids just trying to get a job. I think his is a great option for our community which was not always around 30years ago….
It seems that now people who actually work are joining the discussion.
The bottom line is that they are very unlikely to hire you without the college degree even if you have those other small degrees. They want a college degree which gives you all round knowledge on the business world in all areas, not just what you are workingg on. Even if you have the skills they are able to demand the degree because everyone else you are interviewing against has the degree which makes it hard for you to get the job. These are all good points you are saying. They are methods of getting the same knowledge without college… Read more »
Yes, #11 said it well. I didn’t read all the comments above, nor am I fully from the same background as most Lubavitchers and hence I may have a different opinion, but I sure do plan on sending my children to college. It is the exception that one can make enough money without a degree. What is this fear of going out into the world, and interacting and yes, even learning about other views. I hope our core is stronger than that to be able to withstand such encounters. Otherwise we are already on shacky ground.
That is awesome 🙂 what a great way to sum up this conversation! you should consider a job as an official Comment Moderator…:P
what about just accepting the fact that he Rebbe said not to surround yourself in an unkosher environment even if you dont understand it??? daven to hahsem! i’m sure he will help find a pernassah without the spectacular resume. many people went to college paid tonz and learned for a looong time…n then werent able to continue with the career they wanted for whatever reason (injured, decided not to, couldnt find job…hashem didn’t want them to have that kind of parnassah!)
Just go to Columbia and the greatest shluchim Yonah and Keren Blum will take great care of you and you will get a great education too!
Also Morristown smicha offers a BA in Rabbinical Studies, but I think you would have to be there for two years to qualify. In any event, yes, it is quite true that from yeshiva one can progress to work on attaining a Masters degree. I have several friends who went this route, and some went on to law school, and thank G-d are doing quite well for themselves. They are also very frum and Chassidishe mentschen, for all those haters 🙂
testingandtraining.com
-they are a FRUM organization
-they offer undergraduate and graduate degrees
-their undergraduate degree can be done 100% correspondence
-ALL the courses available to be taken are PRE-APPROVED and checked for kosher content
-its waaayyy more affordable than most
-the accreditation is solid
-they accept any and all CLEP tests
(#48 most colleges only accept select ones)
-there are no semesters so you can go as slow or as fast as works for you
Thank you for responding, and I understand what you said. I would just clarify that in light of this forum and some of the above comments, if someone would be determined to go into a specific field which requires a college degree, no strings attached, then I wouldn’t say it is placing ones future in the hands of the university in question. Rather, it would be utilizing the keli for which the bracha of parnossa would be nimshoch. I really doubt that viewing every single person attending college automatically constitutes their denial of Hashem providing for us. But once again,… Read more »
It sounds like the alternative would be to keep relying on the government. And, what is wrong with have a limited number of kids.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned that it’s possible to get a BA or an equivalent from a yeshiva, and then use it to go for masters degree in many fields after completing some prerequisites. As a matter of fact, the yeshiva Ner Yisroel in Baltimore offers college degrees in partnership with some local college in many fields, and majority of the bochurim there take this option – the whole program is for yeshiva bochurim only, and is approved by the yeshiva. It’s quite feasible to get masters in many areas within 2-3 years after that, after gettings married and… Read more »
The argument here is about college,not about working.The secular society has spread this lie that in order to make a living you have to go college.The article and many commentators here are arguing that there are many alternatives to college that would suit the frum community better.You may be right that not enough is done by the system to help people train or find jobs,however that doesn’t mean the solution is college.If you believe that B’racha comes from Hashem,why would you place your future in the hands of a university?Better would be to pick profession and get specific training in… Read more »
aren’t there enough other trades that don’t require college education but rather trade / vocational school and on the job experience? I feel lucky when I can get a competent plumber to show up for $100 / hr, electrician – $100-120 / hr, and the ones who are reasonably good are booked far in advance. How about general contractors? from the quotes I get, they make more than lots of people with advanced degrees. I’m sure there’re lots of other examples
Your first sentence is exactly what the Rebbe quoted and then proceeded to say it’s not true. It’s one thing to say you disagree with the Rebbe – but be honest about it. True the wealthy people are the exception, but not everyone must be wealthy. There are thousands of individuals in the community who are comfortably middle class who didn’t go to college – that’s what we should be looking at. Like number 70 said; the 100 people you refer to are just lazy and unmotivated. That issue stems from a lack of character – not education.
torn apart machloikes and CH”V divorce because of the struggles. I would love to send my sons to summer camp this year for one month its over $2,000. Lets say the truth, there are three categories in Chabad. One, the rich who give their children jobs, b”H for them Im sure their emunah is strong. They are fortunate and why not? I’d do the same for my kids. Two, many shluchim who run schools and camps built on public money Hekdesh and use their position to give their children jobs and start them off in positions. They also charge exorbitant… Read more »
and thank you 85. btw, i don’t see anyone mentioning, that for certain things a degree from a yeshivah works just fine. I went that route, and only had to take a few classes directly related to my field, and in a much more kosher environment.
Today there are colleges and universities that are totally NOT mixed so no one has to worry about anything like that. I love the idea that my children can get a good education and it’s not all about making a living although it certainly is a factor.Today men and women want to contribute to society and yes, some want to do research and help other sby becoming nurses, PAs etc and the public can benefit from having frum individuals to “help”them. No one can deny the benefits of a college education. From reading the above I am hopeful that there… Read more »
I read all these comments. in order to spare you from that, allow me to sum up everything that everybody said until now. A- Attending College is not a Necessity Anymore In Order to Earn a Parnassah. B- In today’s day and age, You can learn many many different trades through other avenues such as online school, books, free online tutorials. C- In General, The Rebbe didn’t approve of going to college because of the atmosphere and the “liberal ideology,” but nowadays you can get a college degree without exposing yourself to those things through online classes. C- If you… Read more »
could not agree with you more.
How some people say that they believe in Hashgocha pratis and the Aibishter and His brochos, yet bpoel mamosh they sit around and do absolutely nothing to be mamshich any of it? What is allotted on Rosh Hashona is only milmaalah, through our avoidah every single day and our tefilos we make it real and practical bigaluoi. I don’t see how living off food stamps when you have five kids and counting in CH is the tachlis of what one was meant to do. Man was created to toil, and we see numerous examples in the Torah and maamorei Chazal… Read more »
…lets all emulate a college drop out who achieved success! Why on earth would you advocate that, as a means of “inspiring” others not to get the education and the tool they need to be matzliach in those professions? This utterly baffles me.
Seriously, how can some of you say that just because Chanina Sperlin and Sholom Ber Drizen made lots of money, and since they didn’t have to go to college this will now serve as the basis for EVERYONE not to go to college. So then what, you’re left with a bunch of capable yungerleit in Crown Heights who will be yukking about someone else’s mazel, so mimeilah it will affect ME the same!? How STUPID is that! And Bill Gates didn’t finish college, and look at him? Let’s all
i completely agree 100%. the thing about college is that you need to have a plan before you go. A friend of mine always knew he wanted to be a doctor, therefore he has a detailed education plan. he knows he has to go to college for X amount of years, for X amount of classes, he needs X amount of credits, and since he has a goal, he works hard in college, and I think he’s ok. the PROBLEM lies with people who go to college because A-everyone goes to college. B-their friends are going. C-they don’t know what… Read more »
Whether you like it or not, we live in a world where secular education is a must in order to make a good living. Yes; there are exceptions- people who do not have an education and made it really big! However, for every single person that succeeded, I can bet you there are about 100 people who do not succeed and are living off food stamps and in government housing. And- even for the few people that do succeed- I can bet you that they need to know how to read and write properly, or have basic math skills; which… Read more »
To those who believe that people should not go to College and quote the numerous letters of the Rebbe on this topic: The Rebbe has told many people to stay in college, (granted many were Ba’alei teshuvah). Also, if you have never had the need for the help of a proffesional of any type-i.e., Doctor, lawyer, psychologist, etc., you will have no clue how amazing it is to have a frum lubavitcher to work with. Not that other frum proffesionals are bad, however, when dealing with proffesionals, if they understand you and your culture, they can make your care that… Read more »
I agree with.
Yes, it is well known that school is a waist for graphic design. However, this is the exception to the rule.
If your going into graphic design then good for you. Just know this, it is a highly competitive field and an underpaid job. If you don’t have inborn talent for art don’t even try learning.
Everyone relax, yes Parnosah is a scary topic, however the Same REBBE that said certain things about university, also spoke 10X about getting a mashpia, so every person should make a private descion together with their family and mashpia about what path they should take. Yes some of the fields mentioned in this article are big money makers especially for the top rated people, however some of those professions are really only able to support a single person and aren’t a real long term money maker….
It’s repulsive how these psuedo-chabadniks excuse going to college. The Rebbe says not to go to college. No pshetlach. If you lack Bitachon, fine, but don’t say that the Rebbe would condone it. Birkas Hashem He Taashir. If you have bitachon, true bitachon, you’ll have parnassa. Trust me. It works. From experience. The Rebbe doesn’t need my or Mr. Nehorai’s approbation, but the fact is, I have numerous friends, clients, business associates, etc, who have University degrees on a graduate level who struggle (and they have small families…). The above posters are, at best, kofrim in Hashgacha Protis. Hashem decides… Read more »
there is no, and i mean absolutley no, substitute for a real classroom with a real teacher. You can get close to it, but it won’t be the same. With that said, there is a lot of problems with online schooling. A lot of them may be less expensive, but because of that, their degrees will not be as accepted when looking for a job. So you just spent two years getting a bachelors in psychology online but what if no one accepts it? I’ve seen this happen too many times. the article is correct that there is a lot… Read more »
extremely wealthy ( plus than 100 millions) are the exception
But 10 million is something achievable and a good living for a jew
Hmmm, what about people who want to be lawyers or doctors? I’d like to see someone do that online!
The reason the Rebbe was against college is because of it’s secular education,the bad environment is a side issue.The Rebbe made himself perfectly clear about secular knowledge,that it is against Halacha .If someone needs it for a specific reason,than their are heterim based on the circumstances. College is essentially a social engineering school for liberal ideology.The reason people think it’s about making money, is because of years of propaganda fed to us by the students of that very ideology.If you think college is so good for an economy ,how come so many people are without jobs today?In the past 25… Read more »
It is so true…Jews do not belong in goyish universities or even Jewish ones…..to learn a skill such as computers etc. is a great idea. but not to go through a college system. The Rebbe said many times going to university is like jumping off the ninth floor of a building and hoping to survive….
Thank you for the articulate and intelligent article. You present many alternate paths to supporting one’s family for someone who does not wish to attend college. Although some people have already commented, I’d like to reiterate regarding the extremely wealthy in our community: They are the exception, not the rule. This is very important to recognize. Please don’t use these individuals as an inspiration to young people and as an example of not needing college.
I am a 20-yr-old lubavitcher girl who always wanted to be a computer programmer but didn’t want to go to college against the Rebbe’s will, and t herefore I let go of the option.
Now that I read your post I see it might indeed be a possible option, thank you for opening us up to these opportunities in a frum, uncompromising way.
sometimes it takes longer to realize, but ultimately if one follows the Rebbe in all areas (not just the lo taaseh) then he/she sees hatzlacha bgaluy!
many who seem chasidish on the outside are realy not compliant with the Rebbes takanos, yet they wounder why the Rebbe’s assurances are not comming through…
vdal
An average family needs 200k a year ( not first 8 years of marriage) just to make it and almost no savings. Most colleges degrees wont make this money either
Times changed, and today or you have a succesfull business or you are stock receiving charity from government programs ,etc
Everyone wants to be assured Parnasah. It is one of the scariest things around, the fear that one can not provide for oneself and ones family. People are looking for the fail safe key to avoiding such a horrible situation. The author is saying that going to college is not that key. It is not a fail safe option, it might increase ones options and earning power but it won’t take away that fear it is not fool proof. On another point the author made, there is a great free! website which teaches online it is called NewStart Institute. It… Read more »
First, #7 hit the nail right on the head. Now to my piece: This isn’t meant to be diatribe against Crown Heights or the greater Chabad community, but from what I am observing here there seems to be disconnect between making money and truly loving what you do in life. I would venture to say that you will not find a single person who feels completely fulfilled in their personal, family, or religious lives who is unhappy day in and out in their professional lives. Our professional lives consume most of our time and energy and the collateral effects of… Read more »
It’s true that not everyone needs to go to college to be successful, but not everyone wants to be or has the skill to be in computers, either. There are MANY options besides these, for example: Mechanic (auto or other) Chef Fashion design Merchandising Sales Grantwriting Hypnotherapy HVAC Physical therapist (massage) Medical technologist (X-ray, CAT, EKG, Sonogram) OSHA inspections Paralegal Pharmacy assistant Real-estate finance Refrigeration Nursing Vision care Dental appliances creation Lanscape design Almost all of of these require less than a year of school. Details about how to learn more and how to get grants for vocational-training tuition are… Read more »
There are so many places that the Rebbe speaks and writes about this so clearly.
One example is Likutei Sichos chelek alef, parshas bishalach.
Perhaps others can share other places we can look.
Let’s remeber that we are Lubavitchers and that the Rebbe’s directives should guide us regardless of in what direction the winds are blowing…
I am currently taking my Masters in Education online. It has been an amazing experience. I have the opportunity to do my studies at my own pace without having to leave my home.
As a shliach on a campus who is close to top level admin, its a known thing that colleges are all looking ato now, where will we be in 10-20 years, so much of the education is going to eEducation, people dont want to go to a full time school, if they can get a degree online, in night classes etc, while working etc. The comments here are so 10 years ago. the Reality is changing, and Universities across the nation are taking note. Great article!
The problem is in the mindset. We must start talking to our children when they are young what they would like to be as a professional when they get older and put them on the track to success as a youngster and not wait till they 20 or older to start thinking about what kind of future they will able to provide for their families. therefore we must start teaching Limudi Chol at 1st grade and give it the proper attention which is needed. Some schools offer it but they at the same time discourage it. TO CHANGE THE OUTPUT… Read more »
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/college-degree-doesn-t-guarantee-good-job-gary-121730106.html
The best way to control people is to keep them uneducated
so keep discouraging our youth from making something of themselves.
When the rebbe spoke about not going to college it was at a time when there was no frum colleges. I think the rebbe would change his view now that there are kosher colleges for our children to go to and remain frum. or we can keep discouraging them and they will continue to stray in droves. So you decide
What about the other 90% of people in CH on food stamps? You cant argue with facts. Bring the Rebbe’s opinion as your argument, but don’t say college doesn’t help, just because of a few lucky people.
why in the frum world has it become like a “sin” to go to college/have a professional job/enjoy it? money eventually has to come from somewhere..
this is ridiculous!!!
Whatever your opinion may be concerning this op-ed, I say kudos to Elad Nehorai for his blog work. I really liked his writings, he has a lot of good things to say and express and based on what I read he genuinely means what he writes and has a sensitivity towards many worldly issues that often seem to elude many of us. That having been said, I really respect him for writing this piece and giving us his perspective on issues like these. I’m not saying there isn’t what to critique, as evidenced by all the comments above, but whatever… Read more »
Not that I don’t agree with what the Rebbe says; but the comments that the Rebbe made about universities were at a time when there were no Jews on campus and the only option was to live on campus- an option that I think is a bad idea as well! However, nowadays, as frum, Lubavitch university student at a non-Jewish university,, I can say that there is quite a big Jewish community on campus: there are shiurim by Hillel and Chabad daily, shabbos programming, and even a minyan just for frum university students. So, it’s not such a ‘goyish’ atmosphere… Read more »
The SCBWI just had an article in their newsletter, titled something to the effect of You can be a really good illustrator without going to art school. written by a successful illustrator who never received a formal art school training.
she said it was a good way to go, especially due to the great cost involved in art education.
you can learn a lot online like mr nehorai is saying
she had other points too.
I think the author was making another valid, sometimes overlooked point. Technology is changing the world in terms of requirements, skills, AND service delivery. Meanwhile, university degrees have become so commonplace and automatic, that a degree no longer guarantees anything. If you don’t believe this, ask ANY university student or recent grad, who is probably now slaving away at a Masters, because without a 2nd degree, you don’t stand out from the 1,000’s of other graduates, and the jobs are just not there (even in law, even for medical students looking for residencies, etc.). But the REAL WORLD has changed… Read more »
To earn a BA you can also do CLEP tests- which involves studying material on a certain subject and than going in and taking a test on it, its that easy!
You forgot to mention Udacity.com. Another free website with courses from colleges.
All the options above cannot provide a carreer. If that’s what a person wants, then he must go to university to get degree. or a trade school to get a trade. A person must also be blessed with mazal. Yes!!!! The best segulah for parnassa is to get up, get working and get a job. This segulah works!!!! Young boys, figure out what you want and then go for it. But remember, whatever it will be, in order for success, you will need to work hard, very hard and harder still!!!!! Even if you’re very talented in the area that… Read more »
Welfare, Medicaid, Section 8, Foodstamps, CILOCA, Headstart, and other programs are a stable source of Parnassah for many residents of Crown Heights.
Definitely you don’t have to go to college to make a Parnassa for a large family
But not everyone is cut out for entreupreunership
If you have to work for someone else you need skills , and from college and university you get paid better
There is a major difference between college and vocational school.Most colleges are not vocational schools and don’t provide adequate training for the real world.Many people that finish college come to realize they don’t have the necessary skills for high end jobs.There are millions of people unemployed in the US,yet there are millions of high tech jobs that are open and can’t be filled, because not enough people have proper training. The main purpose of college is to train people had to act and think ,not how to make money.Based on this you can understand why the Rebbeh was so against… Read more »
Sure, there are ways to make money without going to college. But on average, those with a college degree make more money than those without. It’s a matter of simple statistics. If you want to take a chance that no employer will ever turn down your application because you don’t have a college degree, go right ahead. But you’re in for a sad surprise, I think.
What yeshiva teachers kids how to read and write effectively in any language?
It’s funny that you mostly hear about the poverty crisis, tuition crises, etc rather than the “wealth” crisis in the community.
To Binyamin N: You make some valid points. But consider: It is become more and more accepted in conventional wisdom that going to college does not equal success, financial or otherwise. This has nothing to do with frumkeit or Judasim or the Rebbe. It just isn’t what it used to be in terms of security in finding (good) employment. This has been reported and written about extensively in the past years. The author touched on this, but perhaps he does not stress this enough. Another point is that of all college graduates there is a significant percentage of people who… Read more »
I argue this very point to lots of young (and not so young people). You write very well. But ultimately, if a Lubavitcher is not going to go to college, it’s because the Rebbe said no. Perhaps to include in your essay that chochmos chitzoyniyos are mitamtem halev vihmoiach.
While a self contained hermetically sealed community must have all professions from Appraisers to Zoologists, this author is not envisioning such a society. There is nothing wrong with our community having a disproportionate number of people involved in a handful of careers and jobs. It always was so, in all communities. Jews were overrepresented in the shmattah trade, italians in tile-works and wrought iron, etc. This concept is even more appropriate now, when I can sell the fruit of my labor (in internet and computer trades) to people I never met, and never will meet. Yesh lihaarich, viein kan hazman.… Read more »
Big difference between learning Yiddishkeit which must be received from a Baal Mesorah and popular web programming technologies that most people even high school kids can learn online. You don’t need college for a tech career and it’s better to avoid it because there are no kosher colleges.
But the net is a very dangerous place and young men and women need supervision when learning online also.
The haves will always have the advantage over the have nots even when it comes to a computer science degree. A college degree from a real university will always beat out one from an online university. And that’s what one must consider. What you know is not enough. Employer’s what to know where you learned it. Telling them lynda.com will not impress them but telling them Rhode Island school of design for example will. If they have to choose between Harvard university or even queens college and Phoenix online university, it will be a quick decision. Who you know is… Read more »
chanino sperlin went to college ?!
sholom ber drizin went to college ?!
reb zalmen gurary ob”m went to college ?!
and many many more wealthy people that they never went to college, so this is the reality: that college and money are NOT connected to each other.
This article provided interesting information.
Exactly, in other words you can find another way of making money without going to college.
The only thing is, those who were critical were actually quite correct in their assessment of the topic. There are many valid professions which simply require a legitimate university degree in order to be successful in that given field. And while it is true that there are many frum and Chassidishe people who BH have done well for themselves without receiving a college education, that alone should not serve as a basis for everyone across the board. In fact, if one were to use that as proof, it would come across as being quite naive. Although the truth is, and… Read more »
Unfortunately, you fail to share the whole story concerning on-line school. While I agree that online school does work well and is convient for some. However, for many, its not an option, especially for those that have no prior experience in the heavy sciences or maths. Its simply not an option to be self-taught. Furthermore, most people don’t have the drive to teach themselves, just take a look at how many people push themselves to their max in yeshiva. To clarify, I’m not blaming or placing fault on anyone; I’m just stating the reality. Finally, I would suggest looking a… Read more »
Again, the fundamental idea that is missing in this articles is that many people don’t pursue a degree just to make a living. While there are certainly people who do go to college for employment reason, there are several of us individuals who believe that by getting a degree it will better serve our communities and society ( teachers, doctors, therapist, psychologist, counselor etc). For all our problems, we have to outsource, why not create our own. Im not saying a person can’t be a great teacher without going to school, but it more likely that the individual will gain… Read more »
Comment nr. 11 – couldn’t say it better.
I kind of get the feeling that the people who are anti-college, and write articles such as these don’t understand the idea of feeling satisfaction in your job. Why, in the Chabad community, has it become a crime to be passionate about your career? Why is it shameful for someone to want to work, to chas vsholom enjoy their occupation?? To a certain degree, yes, we work to put food on the table. And if that’s all you want, then the above suggestions that accomodate computer programmers and the such can work, because there’s no passion involved, merely survival. But… Read more »
I am not going to discuss what the Rebbe said because we all know the Rebbe didn’t want people to go to college. But getting to the article, you are limiting what people can do. Not everyone is good at marketing, design etc., and many people struggle to study online. You are probably going to say that if they dont want to do online courses they don’t want it bad enough, but its not true. Not everyone is able to read a book and able decode everything that they are reading. Look at all the successful people that didn’t go… Read more »
Unfortunately, the author of this article misrepresented the purpose of college. For that matter, many people misplace the goal of getting a degree. The purpose of college is not just (or shouldn’t be with the intention of just making money) Many individuals that attend college do so because they feel they can contribute to society by working in certain professions. Thus, to argue that many people become rich without going to college doesn’t lessen the positive impact that college has on a person.
YES! for those who need money and are looking for an appropraite way to make a Kli this is fantastic!
Don’t forget that bochurim are not meant to be studying anything besides torah (If one is mature and capable enough to study college online, there must be something they can learn in Torah)
But for Kollel Yungelait this is perfect! Minimal Fees and maximum results. Since you choose your hours you can also have a side job.
Easy? No
Stress Free? No
The most appropriate way to make a Kli for hashems blessings? Definately
Pop Chassid Rocks
A great way for a Lubavitcher to get a BAS http://www.mji.edu 248 414 6900
The only option for not going to college is programming, which isn’t for everybody. There is no other actual high paying career, that will hire someone with an online degree, period.
I go to Touro. Boys and girls on on separate days, and the professors are almost all religious, so the environment isn’t the problem. If you would argue that the subjects are a problem, I’d answer that online colleges are no better.
I can sleep at night knowing I won’t be living from food-stamp to food-stamp.
If u cant get yourself to learn in yeshiva u cant get yourself to learn in collage.
Effort has to be put into learning for it to be successful no matter what type of earning it is.
If you ware in yeshiva and didnt put effort into learning it is gone be very hard to put effort in collage
Not every one is likes the professions that are available without college education. A person working in a profession that he doesn’t like will never make it big. A young man looking for a source of parnassa should get into a field that he has interest and only then he has a chance of success. Looking for jobs that are one size for all is not a solution, it is in fact a aggravation of the problem. Today there are many alternatives for a frum person to earn a degree and bring money, with honor, for his household. Every youngerman… Read more »
one small problem,, in order to take courses on line you need some sort of degree, or even if you don’t you need some sort of basic english (reading / math etc,,) skills background, which many people don’t have,,,
so this whole article is a waste of time,,,,
Like
I’ll tell you why: Both yeshiva and college have 2 (main) aspects (that are relevant to this discussion), and they are the “academics” and the “atmosphere/environment”. The “academics” in both places are a “+” (for that stage in life, at least), whereas the “atmosphere/environment” in one is a “+”, and a “-” in the other. So, therefore, being people who seek positive aspects in our lives, we will always embrace “academics” but not always embrace “atmosphere/environment”. I.e. the “atmosphere/environment” in yeshiva is a positive one and so we try to find ourselves there, and that of college is a negative… Read more »
Even Chabad schools pay more or require/encourage college education nowadays…
Ironic that the same institutions that taught us how college is a big no-no now pushes us to go just to be able to teach Kodesh to pre-schoolers… Pathetic indeed…
As a follow up i’d like to add that I do agree with your suggestion, #7, that the “kosher” colleges are an option in certain situations, but even those shouldn’t be a given, as can be understood from what the Rebbe says.
He didn’t say it can’t provide benefits – he just said that it’s not a must, and there are many other legit options. I don’t see how what he’s saying differs from what the Rebbe says, and I wouldn’t call it childish. Isn’t chassidus full of statements to the effect of birchas Hashem he taashir? Granted, you must make a kli – and that’s exactly what the author is offering.
I did this years ago.
1) Better recignized degree than in Jewish colleges
2) No influence from less chassidish students.
3) Cheaper
4) But you have to make sure the subjects are Kosher too (often they aren’t in Jewish colleges, goyishe psychology, etc.).
What is wrong with wanting to be a doctor or lawyer, they should be more than acceptable option
Problem is you cant have a community comprised exclusively of online marketers, programmers, graphic designers and sales people. In the real world, a functioning first-world society requires doctors, dentists, pharmacists, nurses, engineers, scientists, architects, farmers, machinists, attorneys, pilots, accountants, and therapists just to name a few. To pretend as if those with a college degree are no better off than their degree-less counterparts, is wishful thinking. Much study has been conducted about this subject, and while it is true that many people without a formal education are able to achieve great financial success, the odds are stacked against them. It… Read more »
mazal……………y’all forgot about mazal………..
mazal is from the Aibishter…………….y’all forgot about that too……..
Most of the jobs listed above simply cannot provide the income needed to support a large family. It is important to be accurate so someone does not get the wrong idea. For example, blogging or doing SEO to earn a respectable living is a fallacy.
Author of the post here.
“Unfortunately, it appears that your arguments are very childish in the kindest of words. It’s one things to say studying secular studies is wrong (and there is much validity to that statement). However, to say it useless to go to college and that it doesnt have its perks is complete rubbish. ”
Two questions:
1. Where did I say that? (hint: I didn’t)
2. Do you think it is appropriate to use such attacks (ie “childish in the kindest of words”) when making a comment on a post on a Chabad website?
Firstly, in your opening discussion, you clearly state that not all careers are an option if one does not attain a degree. Why should someone be involved in a profession where their heart is not. Additionally, in recent years, opportunities for pursuing a degree in “kosher” environment have been increasing. For instance, there are two colleges that offer completely “kosher” atmosphere to study in (non-coed, all Jewish students and professors etc). Finally, you make an unfortunate mistake in that you compare online school to in-class study. For some, it might be the same, but most find online classes to not… Read more »
“Higher education” just brings about a mountain of debt for a nice paper which may eventually pay a comfortable salary, which is then saddled with said mountains of debt for years to come. Totally not worth it
and what about the many frum wealthy that DID go to college!
Online college goes twice as fast as campus, and has fewer breaks. I know this because I am a year into online college and you have to be very VERY motivated to do online college, not to mention that you will have to spend hours in front of the computer. I am really enjoying myself and learning a lot! I love the fact that I can choose my own hours to do homework! Online college is not for everyone and requires one to be 100% into that kind of set up.
the reason they didnt go to college is becuz they found a way to make money without it
What’s next? Maybe we should stop going to Yeshiva b/c we can learn everything online?!
well that’s a very good point. It might also be kidai to mention that most wealthy frum yiddin (there are many) haven’t ever stepped foot in college.