Apr 21, 2012
Growing Rather Than Sailing

The bochur behind the op-ed "Sailing Through Yeshiva Life" follows-up with a second article, this time with suggestions.

My op-ed has received a lot of feedback. People seem to been taking this issue very seriously. Now it is time to move on to the next step: Do something!

In order to do something we need to know what to do, and in order to know what to do, we need to know what the issue actually is.

So, again, the problem is that good bochurim are wasting their yeshiva years, not getting anything substantial done, contrary to the whole basis of Tomchei Temimim and "chasyiddishkeit." Tomchei Temimim is supposed to generate real leaders, people that are going to literally turn over the world, and there's no room for complacency. In order to be a successful leader or entrepreneur you need discipline, structure, and intense motivation.

I'm going to quote part of a comment I read which affirms most eloquently what we must do now: "AHA! Sparking some VERY important exchange! Could that mean that this is a very important topic? Could it mean that its time has come? I dare believe it IS time! I dare we need all take heed of the interchange here, and assess the situation from an honest (yes, honest) point of view. Speak to a variety of students, from a variety of grade levels.

"Ask them if they felt honored as a student/human/neshama. Ask them how they felt if ever they needed support and were ignored or shunned. Ask them if they ever DID need assistance. Take the positive. Take the negative. Take the in-between. Come together to PUT it all together, Consult experts in the field, all kinds of philosophies included.

"Some of us have felt validated, some of us have been offended, challenged, confused, superior to it all, condescending to it all, in denial, in ignorance, in support, open to growth or change, and more. It's the way it goes. But let's keep on dealing with it."

This comment, along with many other, more detailed descriptions of solutions come together to form one overall conclusion of what we need to do.

It seems that our problem: complacency and lack of avodah, structure, motivation and growth stems from a lack of goals, achievement, and accountability. So if we can cultivate these qualities in the bochurim in both mesivta and zal, it should effectively eliminate the issues at hand, and create motivated and goal-striving bochurim who can think on their feet and conquer the world. Many of you had suggestions on how to do so.

Here is a combination of a few which I think is absolutely attainable and on target: First, we need to combat the attitude that just sitting and learning is enough, and enact specific goals, steps to achieve them, and positive reinforcement for doing so. In order to do this, our mashpiim and teachers need to know what these things are and how to carry them out, and for this, we need some experts in this area to help them.

We can also introduce new, more practical learning. For example, we could teach skills that improve mivtzoim, merkos shlichus, and shlichus performance. Fundraising, marketing, budget management, this would improve the bochurim's performance in yeshivah, since they will be learning something concrete and practical, and also beyond yeshivah in the real world, be it shlichus or business. This would also generate more interest in yeshiva itself and bochurim will be there because they want to be there. Not because someone else wants them to be there or because there's nowhere else to go.

I think you will agree that these suggestions will give the bochurim the structure needed to carry them through yeshivah and beyond with the above mentioned traits of growth, achievement, motivation, and accountability. This solution is both practical and appropriate because it deals with the problem very effectively while still upholding the fundamentals of Tomchei Temimim.

Now this is where you come into the picture.

Every single person who sees the urgency of the matter must employ all of his or her abilities to form a solid, lasting change in this area. If you are involved in the field of yeshivas and education, you know what to do, get out there and do it! However if you, like most of us, are not involved in that area, there are many things you can do. You can write a letter, call, email, or speak to bochurim, hanholo, teachers, and educational experts. Now is the time to take action and end the bad cycle we've drifted into. Wishing you all Brocho Vehatzlocho in all your endeavors.

Sincerely,
An ordinary bochur


Most Read Most Comments
Bookmark and Share
Opinions and Comments
1
optional
These course ideas should be optional - since there are always bochurim who can taka set real Torah goals and reach them.
But for a bochur who is not towing the line, he could be told by honhola to attend the courses.
And others could attend if they have an interest in the particular practical area. Otherwise they'd have to be in zal.
(4/21/2012 5:32:55 AM)
2
an ordinary solution from an ordinary bochur
There's no way you are teaching business skills in a yeshivah, mivtzoim is not a core focus of yeshivah either so spending time teaching those skills is second to useless

Bochurim float coz that's the current yetzer hora... if they would speak to their mashpia more often maybe they would get somewhere- if they dont have a mashpia no curriculum enhancement will help them out... even in a perfect system floaters will be floaters

The first paragraph of your call to action embodies the epitome of vague. Perhaps what you were thinking was- that it is the magid shiur/mashpias job to ensure that every bochur knows what he is expected to learn and what he is NOT expected to learn- and must be given the tools to achieve this goal. If that means breaking down the maharsha and rashba into paragraphs and summaries and giving out handouts of the practical application of the sugya to shiur daled bochurim, so be it- THAT will get guys into it- when they are succeeding in understanding the complete sugya- not just one machlokes with all the shitos worked out.

While giving bochurim a context shiur before they enter a sugya- i.e. what to look out for and which mistakes not to make etc. and a summary/practical applicatin shiur at the end of the sugya might make a lot of sense- most magidei shiurim don't know the sugya well enough to do that (the rosh and some others excluded of course) or are of the shita that such teaching would take out most of the yegiya in the sugya thus nullifying the whole purpose of iyun in the first place
Expecting bochurim to wander through shas and enjoy yeshivah because there are other topics that they are learning is just stupidity.

I hear New Haven Zal had an awesome limud aliba dehilchasa last year- that is definately something worth pursuing
(4/21/2012 10:20:26 AM)
3
Like they used to day in the olden days
"aff tzulochus, s'iz faran a oibeshter oifen velt" if the bochrim would know that then things will be alot diff.! Dont try making new sestyms etc. And its the mashpiems problem %100!!!
(4/21/2012 1:47:31 PM)
4
should we take example from other yeshivois ?
Should we take example from other Yeshivois on how to excel ?

The answer is a definite "no" ; the 'others' dont learn Chasidus the 'others' dont listen to our Rebbe the
'others' are meakeiv the geulo with their 'krume' ways ...and ]]BICHLAL they teach to learn with gayvo and are not even 'worth' thinking about.
(4/21/2012 8:41:03 PM)
5
have you read achron shel pesach 5736?
if so, do you really think the rebbe will approve of developing shlichus skills in yeshiva?

do you know that the rebbe even forbade developing fundraising skills in KOLLEL! ?

in other words, does the rebbe have an opinion?
(4/21/2012 9:37:18 PM)
6
on the other hand...
The most elementary rule in education is that each and every pupil is an individual that must have his/her needs met. I experienced the opposite of what the grievance in the article was. I was in a super strict yeshivah. Though my intelligence was and is probably above average, I had no cheishek (stamina/discipline) to sit and shteig in gemarah, shulchan aruch and samach vov all day. If you were spotted talking about non learning related matters with your friends [during seder], you would have a member of hanholo staring you down. Every time my father would inquire by my Rosh Yeshivah of my progress, he would be given a negative report. Thus my father had no respect for me and my self-esteem was in shambles.

A Yeshivah shouldn’t be a place where a bochur feels that he has a kapo above him that will strike him if he isn’t shteiging away. A yeshivah should be a place that has as their mission statement, “We are a place that offers a healthy environment bgashmius ubruchnius for our bochurim.” It shouldn’t be an academy for higher learning, because then all the bochurim who don’t conform are at a high risk of rebelling r”l. By some miracle, despite my negative experiences, I turned out well and am now married, on shlichus, etc.

I very strongly feel that the yeshivas should start focusing on educating and creating a curriculum based on the intellect of the students who are between the 25th - 35th percentiles of [intellect of] pupils. Those bochurim that are bored because of the ease of the curriculum should be assigned extra learning to be more commensurate with their higher levels of intellect and/ or stamina to toil in learning.

What yeshivas did in my day was the reverse. They created an intellectual boot camp (i.e. yeshivas designed the most strenuous curriculum to gain the reputation as the ‘Harvard’ of yeshivas), and if they saw a bochur struggling, they ‘did him a favor’ by saying, “We will diminish the material you are required to master for the test,” i.e. – you are too stupid to keep up with this program, so we will accommodate your intellectual weakness.

Conclusion: Yeshivas must gear towards the common and accommodate the gifted, not gear towards the gifted and accommodate the common. This will help ensure self-esteem of bochurim which is the most important ingredient in keeping our youth y’rayim v’shlaymim (frum).
(4/21/2012 10:35:49 PM)
7
not the kavono
for the same reason the rebbe did not want that small children to learn limudei chol,
bochurim must also not.
why is science and "socials studies" differnt than "Fundraising, marketing, budget management,"?
(4/21/2012 11:03:38 PM)
8
An ordinary (misivta)bochur
You are either a Misivta Bocher or a Bal Tshuve that did not spend more than 6 month in yishvah!!

Every thing you write is just so old and is coming out of my ears, You wrote absolutely nothing New, Original or unspoken.

At least once a month it is posted on one of the websites written by a different idiot each time (obviously with out a name) who thinks he discovered America .If you want to help go in to chinuch and start working on salving problems. when you get there you will notice it ain't so simple

the only thing these corny op-eds accomplish is that young bochrim who read them think they have a excuse not to learn.
(4/21/2012 11:06:40 PM)
9
happy
your not 2 years old. your hungry feed yourself dont wait to be fed.things will never change
(4/21/2012 11:14:43 PM)
10
Hello wake up and smell the cofee people he's right
I've two main points to make
1.A lot of these comments are upset about "changing" the system. So i ask you is this the same Tomchei timimim Started by the rebeim. In fact there are only a few "tomchei timimim" the rest are just want to be's but they will ALL tell you THIS is tomchei timimim and the Rebbe Rashab icked each of you to come here. I'm sorry but the Yeshivos today are not what they used to be. Yeridos hadoros, standards have dropped i mean what does it take to get into a tomchei timimim today? basicly not be a bad bochur. in the past there were standards you came to yeshivah knowing SHAS with meforshim and so much more, now were lucky if the bochurim can read a page, or even a few lines of gemarah without an artscroll (im referring when they enter Zal. Hopefully they pick up at least that during Zal). basically the point i'm trying to make is if the yeshivos have changed so much (unintentionally) lower why would a little more change not be good or at least give it a chance. even if you leave a few yeshivos how they are now and open the rest to additional subjects/courses or the other ideas people have. how much is it gonna hurt the average bochur i say ZERO it can only benefit because the way they are now the worst thats gonna come out of it, is instead of sleeping through a girsah shiur itl be sleeping through a fudraising class ect.
Point 2. The rebbeim NEVER said/intendid EVERYONE to go to the "traditional" tomchei timimim.
in fact tomchei timimim was designed originally for those who wanted to take their education to the next level not to get a good shidduch ect.
it used to be the majority of bochurim were taught a trade like it says in the pekei avos (No i dont mean they didnt learn. or the focus was the trade but they were taught a livelihood so as to be able to approach life secure in the knowledge that you can support yourself and not like today hope you get a shlichus (if your not "connected" a problem for a different article) hope you get baleh batim with money who can support you your wife youe kids ect.)
plus with what is occupying bochurims time today i would think everyone would jum at the chance to redirect our minds away from shtusim and give us a positive outlet outside of yeshiva framework today (yes for those who are shocked at the thought of something besides gemarah shulchanaruch and chasidus (comments 3, 4 .....)in yeshivah. im serious this is needed and quite frankly im in the system now and i find my own way out of seder (i.e. skipping/not break time im honest) to accomplish that which i feel im missing and the yeshivah DOESN'T EVEN KNOW I'M GONE how's that for a scary thought, since i've worked out hanhala's schedule and ace every test they dont know i take Hours off every day)
i think would cause a significant change in the standards/interest in/participation in/quality of yeshivah's today.
I'm a bochur in the system today shiur daled zal going on shlichus next year ad i've been around to many yeshivah's so don't say i'm a special case most every bochur i know agrees with me except if there the ones sitting and shtayging all day in this system and obviously this article doesnt apply to them
(4/21/2012 11:25:51 PM)
11
To #10
Ur comment is unnessesarily long,mi and I'm sure other pple don't have the patience to read it
U alco spelled"coffee" wrong
(4/22/2012 12:12:26 AM)
12
sorry
sorry bored to right like that maybe you are referring to yourself because to sit on front of internet instead of learning like a normal bochur of shiur alef zal and not going arond zal and look at who learning and who not because by the end of the day we are all equal legabe learning i my self agree with comment number 10 READ "Point 2. The rebbeim NEVER said/intendid EVERYONE to go to the "traditional" tomchei timimim.
in fact tomchei timimim was designed originally for those who wanted to take their education to the next level not to get a good shidduch ect.
it used to be the majority of bochurim were taught a trade like it says in the pekei avos (No i dont mean they didnt learn. or the focus was the trade but they were taught a livelihood so as to be able to approach life secure in the knowledge that you can support yourself and not like today hope you get a shlichus (if your not "connected" a problem for a different article) hope you get baleh batim with money who can support you your wife youe kids ect.)
plus with what is occupying bochurims time today i would think everyone would jum at the chance to redirect our minds away from shtusim and give us a positive outlet outside of yeshiva framework today (yes for those who are shocked at the thought of something besides gemarah shulchanaruch and chasidus (comments 3, 4 .....)in yeshivah. im serious this is needed and quite frankly im in the system now and i find my own way out of seder (i.e. skipping/not break time im honest) to accomplish that which i feel im missing and the yeshivah DOESN'T EVEN KNOW I'M GONE how's that for a scary thought, since i've worked out hanhala's schedule and ace every test they dont know i take Hours off every day)
i think would cause a significant change in the standards/interest in/participation in/quality of yeshivah's today.
I'm a bochur in the system today shiur daled zal going on shlichus next year ad i've been around to many yeshivah's so don't say i'm a special case most every bochur i know agrees with me except if there the ones sitting and shtayging all day in this system and obviously this article doesnt apply to them" AMAZING POINT"
because today yeshiva are different because even if you are not a learner as long as your parent are ready to pay a lot of money you go



the main thing is "HYME BROV WE TAKIN OVA"
(4/22/2012 12:18:47 AM)
13
to number 11
you also spelled 'also' wrong
(4/22/2012 12:38:07 AM)
14
are going to literally turn over the world
why to people write 'literally' when they actually mean 'figuratively'?
(4/22/2012 12:42:00 AM)
15
to 11
u spelled "also" wrong
lol fix your own mistakes before you fix others.and next time use spell check.but i agree in these over too long comments
(4/22/2012 12:42:35 AM)
16
@ # 5
The Rebbe also started botei sefarim lamlacha. Te rebbe did not think everyone belonged in yeshiva and therefore prepared school where bachurim can go and learn a trade al taharas hakodesh. Due to the misguided chassidishkeit of todays people, there is a mindset that everyone must go to yeshiva. It is wrong. It is literally a prison sentance for some bachurim. People have to stop looking down at guys who are completely frum yet go and learn a trade. If that would happen more "good" guys would go to frum trade schools rather than sitting through yeshivos and learning nothing or dropping out aftre four year,s
(4/22/2012 1:15:16 AM)
17
To #11-
You spelled also wrong, as well as me, as well as people! :)
(4/22/2012 2:22:15 AM)
18
Ok I did something
I sent emails to some hanholo. anyone else do anything?
(4/22/2012 10:21:19 AM)
19
are we like satmar?
are we going to stay the same forever.....you have to understand the bigger picture .....judaism has evolved throughout the years ......we adapt to our surroundings and county while not changing the laws of the torah....we have to change or else we will remain a bunch of old time losers
from russia who will be uneducated and insecure in this fast doggy dog world.......i know that more then half of lubavitch feel like i do so lets start doing something about it.....new schools with new rebbies ...better english ed. more activities for the bocharem....music,art, etc. we dont all have to be old chassidim picking our noses.....we can succeed like many young lubavitchers are doing......lets give many others a chance and let them express themselves in a healthy manner
or did you want to be satmar forever......
(4/22/2012 12:50:47 PM)
20
To #8
What is the problem ? The writer succeeded in eliciting lots of pro and con comments, That is very important! Sometimes we need to stimulate the energy before we take action. I say it's a job well done.
(4/22/2012 1:05:06 PM)
21
to every one
all this starts when we dont have unity in lubavitch we dont have to critisice every thing every body writes he is just a human he could be right just respect the fact that he has his own oppinions even though that the rebbe woudnt agree with him still hes trying to help you have to understand that hes confused so we have to show him the right path whatever yechi hamelech now
(4/22/2012 2:47:16 PM)
22
to #21
totally right we should all learn all the sichas non bias instead of being ignorant and we will then all be "bachdus" & you shouldnt criticise him eather "even though that the rebbe wouldnt agree with him still hes trying to help you have to understand that hes confused so we have to show him the right path "
we should all be talmidim of aharon "ohav shalom vrodef sholom"
moshiach now
(4/22/2012 3:35:19 PM)
23
to #19
success ? your definition of success and my definition of success is completely different! success to me is being a jew who follows halacha and supports his family. to you success seems to be all about making money .
(4/22/2012 7:05:04 PM)
24
To #18
Oh, you were the chutzpenyak who sent unsigned emails to random hanhola members saying 'Read this and do something?'
(4/22/2012 7:05:18 PM)
25
Great idea!
Based on all the above comments, I think it would be a great idea to start with teaching SPELLING in yeshivos! Lol.
(4/22/2012 8:45:56 PM)
26
#25
I love your comment
(4/22/2012 9:10:22 PM)
27
person
same with the girls
(4/22/2012 10:07:54 PM)
What's Your Opinion? Post a Comment
Title:

Your Comment:


Comments must be approved before being published. Thank You!

Make COL your homepage | Contact Us
© 2013 COL and COLLIVE.com