|
|
|
|
Sep 7, 2011
Dear Chabad Bochur...
Shidduchim SOS: A Lubavitch girl who is "sick and tired of dating drama" has 5 things to tell bochurim in shidduchim.
From the COLlive Inbox:
Yes, another exasperated single girl in her early 20's completely fed up with the shidduch system.
Writing this will probably not change anything but how else do I make you aware of what we are going through? How else do I express the pain you have so often caused by being completely oblivious?
Of course I am generalizing. I am sure that many of you are very mature high-quality bochurim that are thoughtful, responsible and sensitive. (Although I am yet to discover where you all are hiding!)
I can imagine that it's fun to be a single bochur, with few responsibilities and no cares in the world. Settling down and building a family can be daunting. It's not necessarily something you desire as much as us Venetians who are all about love, connection, communication and relationships.
But I naively assume that when you do enter the dating world, marriage is something you are ready to step into with maturity and responsibility.
It hurts me to see my mature, strong, intelligent, capable, talented and beautiful friends dating these unmotivated, lazy and simple boys who will dismiss them because they are "too intellectual," "not put together enough" or "can't cook."
These are boys who have lines of girls waiting to date them because they profess to be a great balance of chassidish and down-to-earth, and are often neither.
There are too many of us out there who have so much to offer and are left pained by rejection, dismissal, lack of concern.
I know that you have no intention of hurting me or any of my friends. I agree that it is often our own fault. Our heads work in overdrive while dating, and being a step ahead in our minds is sometimes the cause of disappointment.
So I asked of you:
1. Don't date if you are not ready to get married. Don't let your parents pressure you into it being the right time. It is not fair to us girls who are serious and dating for a few years to go out with someone who has little interest.
2. Be committed. When you make a commitment to date, don't leave us hanging. Push off your business trips, meetings or any vacations you had planned and show us that you are as committed to making this work as we are.
3. Be real. On a date, don't lie or minimize the truth because you are concerned we may get turned off. Be truthful with with us and most importantly with yourself. Unless of course you can keep up the 'show' for the rest of your lives.
4. Know what you want. Many of us are strongly emotional and if you are looking for a "handbag" or "trophy wife," please make sure to see a picture of the girl before you waste our time going out or just let us know so that we can stay away from you with a 10 foot pole.
5. Don't keep us hanging. If you have no interest, don't pretend that you do. Dragging it out will only hurt us more. We need to know where we are standing so that our heads don't whirlwind down the aisle when you are still unsure. If it's a no, then it's a no. And if there are concerns, let us know.
Sincerely,
Sick And Tired Of Dating Drama
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Firstly I'm very honest from the start what I'm all about,and I go out with girls and then they back out, based on things that were clear on my resume before we even met!!! That's called not dating for marriage purposes.
Second, I was recently dating someone that would smile, and say what a great time their having, date after date and then after agreeing to continue one morning texted me her Mashpia said she should stop, " you tell me who's not dating for real " the boys or te girls?
3. They say the guys have so many offers and that their picky, that's just simply not the case, I have money , I'm popular and I get alot of weird suggestions, and plenty of rejections ( they will not even give me a date, with no explanation ).
To sum it up the guys are taken advantage of just as much as the girls.
I think girls just wanna see guys who will respect them and make them feel appreciated which many guys have issues with because thats more of just being real about who you are when they are trying to be the exact opposite (macho man).
i agree with the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th idea but the third one i truly believe works both ways. girls as do guys have a problem with being real all the way through... if written on a resume that the girl writes she covers her elbows and knees when really deep inside her heart she cant stand being tznius and most certaintly will not be tznius as her life carries on is not being real. it should be an open dialogue as to whats really in your heart and not whats just written on a piece of paper even if it may be the truth on the outside. (like i said before its the same problem with guys as well)
thank you for this article and sorry for my ramblings!
Until the girls stop looking down on the guys who didn’t go to college, this “crisis” will not be resolved.
Although for the most part everything she lists is true, her tone of voice and approach are disgusting.
"I am sure that many of you are very mature high-quality bochurim that are thoughtful, responsible and sensitive. (Although I am yet to discover where you all are hiding!)" - How stupidly general is that statement?!? How thoughtless and rude to the tens, if not hundreds, of Bochurim that I know who all seem to be hiding from you?!?
With all due respect to the writer, she should do some serious soul searching before she continues to date. Getting married with such a condescending attitude about boys could be dangerous.
The gemara kedushin 2:b says that the way of a man is to look for a wife. Do your job and contact me. I am a shadchan. The Rebbe gave me a bracha to do so while standing in line for dollars in 1989. Please contact me at getmarriedthisyear@gmail.com. I'm serious about my work. You also have a job. Be serious too.
As for the girls, you can e-mail your profile with references to me. Perhaps we can make a few shidduchim with Hashem's help. Shaliach.
A boy or girl reaches marriage age and they call the pollular Shadchan, what usually happens is they meet you or speak with you for a cinsultation and then u fill outba form ad leave them with money that they oficaily take u on as a client.
Now you leave thier home, an think your on the way to dating, well " are u in for a surprise " a few weeks usually go by and they won't even call you, so then you call them and they say well I was looking into something that just fell through, then there is the rebound ( boy or girl ) someone they suggest just that it looks like thier helping, it's usually the opposite of what your looking for, and when u complain they say, u see your being very picky!
So as long as these articles are respectful I think that whoever has good advise or feedback should please post it so that we can come to a better understanding of each other.
It seems to me from the little experience I have of dating that some individuals (not just the boys) are more interested in just moving on to the next stage of life and getting married without really having their heart in the right place.
If you want to marry someone you have to invest time getting to know the person and not just talking about yourself or "selling yourself" you have to show the other person that you are generally interested in them and that you have what it takes to make a caring, respectful, and mature spouse.
Don't waste time on your dates telling hundreds of stories about yourself just to fill the pauses.
Ask questions to the other person.
Get to know them and they will hopefully respond in kind.
That is what dating is all about after all, not about going to restaurants, arcades, and basketball games - do that once you are married and you already KNOW that this is someone you want to spend a lot of time with.
The word.
Dating.
A goyishe concept.
The focus is on dating.
Dating implies shooting at fish in a barrel.
Churning the multiple outings (to pleasant places.).
Eventually whining on a blog site.
Get real chevra. We are not Modern Orthodox (yet?).
Any proposal is min HaShamayim. Not just a fisherman (shadchan) pointing at a fish in the barrel and saying "Hey try that one. He looks good."
It should be a meeting.
Almost like a business meeting (they can be pleasant enjoyable also.)
Thorough research has already been done (the boy or girl, parents, family or friends have done.)
A meeting of two people who have been told (and research has confirmed) that they would make a good couple.
No surprises here. You did the research and know he is a lazy bum, but has a very good heart (that is quite common). A good heart is primary to the marriage. When there is a problem you are dealing with a kind person who can be sympathetic to your needs.
Why do I suspect that the problem is already in the parents hashkafa.
A) He was "dating for marriage" and wasn't ready to get married
B)Couldn't commit
C)Couldn't be real with himself (be a man and stand up to his words)
D) Has/had no clue what he wants from life
E) Left me hanging
I'm hurt and tired of this game. Let's stop this from happening to others!
Bkitzur, my Chasidishe friends see a girl in te bagel shop they find pretty they call that guy and he supplies info, if that's not cray what is.
i understand that it's a Bochurs market, but in the long run Girls Pull the same shtick.
It's a 2 way street.
in Regards to the writer: you write with the vibe that you have a lot of Hate built up inside of you toward the system.
time to find a new shaddchan.
good luck.
The biggest problem is that nowadays 90% of bochurim (and 99% of older bochurim) are getting "ideas" on the internet - if you know what I mean - and regular girls have to compete with this unrealistic fantasy.
Do you think it is any coincidence that bochurim delaying marriage has coincided directly with the advent of high-speed-internet?
We need a few mature mothers and Mashpiyim getting together and meeting the eligible candidates, the parents and Shadchonim are all in left field.
One issue that is really hurting the shiddach proccess is that in most cases the boys side ask for a picture of the girl b/4 they even ask about the girls traits etc. if that's the most important aspect of a potential wife woe to us and may hashem bless our boys with torah values (not video or facebook values) Ah gut gebenchede yohr with lots of simches.
CPacker Levi, Quito Ecuador
no one is perfect it will probally be hard to find some one who looks like an Abercrombie or Calvin Klien model. But I Think we should work out more /go to the gym, make our hair look nice, wear nice clothes smell good . looks are important who ever says there not is lying. So we should put effort in how we look this goes for guys and girls. But more importanlty be nice also
So mentshlechkeit is something that many boys and girls lack. It doesn't discriminate among genders!
Aliya gym is local, with mens and womens hours and is constantly getting new equiptment.
I'm in my early 20's and have been on both sides of this "game", nothing is clear cut.
The biggest obstacle are the parents that decide their kids don't really know what they want and there's nothing we can do about it because the Shidduch system is the only system.
it's not enough to just put on a black top and bottom.
ATT COL: maybe make a new commenting system where you have to write your name, it can go through facebook names or whatever.
its the first time i actually sat down and read these comments. the article was great as well as the comments. article doesnt need name. but comments dont mean as much when left without a name
One thing I can say, and this is not a generalization, only 1 out of the 14 guys I have ever been out on a date with has either called me back, or the person who had set us up!!!!
"One issue that is really hurting the shiddach proccess is that in most cases the boys side ask for a picture of the girl b/4 they even ask about the girls traits etc..."
Hmm... If your daughters are pretty, than what problem do you have?
Quite the contrary, I think that every Bochur should see a picture (A good picture, that is) of the girl he is looking in to, because if he doesn't like her looks, then there is really NOTHING to talk about.
A Bochur should NEVER marry a girl if he doesn't like the way she looks. I have the Talmud to back me up on this one.
Obviously, he should be looking for other good traits as well, (Like making sure that she is not "high maintenance" or that she doesn't have emotional problems that will turn him into a punching bag for the rest of his life) but a picture up front can save a lot of time and anguish.
I cannot fault the author on her perspective. After all, she IS the author.
What seems to be lacking and/or missing in the orthodox dating (yes, I said this "evil" word #16) is mindset and personality.
Indeed there are many shadchanim and professed "drive-by" shadchanim (those who don't do it as employment; only to assist singles they may know) who deal with resumes and such forms of information exchanges. However, the point is blindly missed.
There is only so much information to be derived from a piece of paper that states "boy/girl is frum, down-to-earth, will watch a movie at home but won't go to theaters. Will go to a shiur a couple times a week and (for the boy) davens with a minyan daily."
How much can YOU derive about the prospective individual from this information?
What I suggest to you but more so to people who are interested in championing this "crisis," is instead of sitting by the wayside and collecting papers to distribute to parents of singles, ask the next person who comes through the door to take a personality exam.
Indeed such mainstream, non-Jewish "tests" may have specific details that don't apply to our community, yet, before you dismiss this idea as "unholy" or some other form of feral devil-talk, perhaps take the test yourself. You may be surprised at home simple it will make your task of pairing two people together.
These tests were designed to corner -- as best as something of the sort can -- personalities of all races, ethnicities and creeds in a manner where the test-taker will know what personality-type to pursue before getting into the details of "chassidish, touches beard, sometimes tznius, etc."
If at first you don't succeed, try something new!
There are boys and girls that have everything good about them, however thier not from popular families, or not rich families, and have such a hard time, I thought in 2011 we got more mature, and stopped caring about such stupid things.
guess thats saying something
There is a very popular secular book called Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, that describes the fundamental differences between men and women.
Note to all men and women of marriageable age:
READ IT!!!!!
I think the youth have to make social events and make out own system for meeting up with people, the Shadchnim failed us terribly and take our money and do nothing.
If your asking why I don't do what I preach, it's cause I'm also in the market! However as soon as I get married I will start revolutionary changes in the system.
All Lubavitch bachurim and girls are amazing. what is going on?
perhaps they need their FRIENDS !!!!! neighbors !!!!! and relatives!!!!!!! to help out .anyone can be a SHADCHAN!!!
People, do yourselves and your families a favor, get a good internet filter, AND most importantly fill your heads with as much Torah as you can. When your head is full of Torah, and your mind wanders for a moment, it goes to the sugya you're in middle of. If you head is full of Shmutz, every idle moment, just keeps the head(s) racing. Vda"l.
So dont come on here and pretend like its all the guy's fault and there are no normal ones out there, and that the girls are all saints with no flaws.
we may be brought up in a chassidishe environment and learn a lot and have different priorities but you cant change nature.
in the world girls and boys go out talk to each other for a long time ...really get to know one another in a close personal way..if they really like them they marry them if they dont they wont....when a girl or boy gets let off or there is no interest in how the girl looks ....that is reality...its how us humans work....if someone is interested he or she will fight to go for it....
yes i know we are suppose to be closing our eyes and only focusing on if he or she learns and wants shlichus....but the times are changing and this is how people operate today..
so when u get dumped or rejected you should imagine yourself in the outside world where it is 100 percent normal to have that happen....and not blame people for not getting someone interested in you
if boys and girls met on their own we would have the same "marriage problem" the girls would be complaining the boys are too picky and the boys would have there side of the story ....so get in touch with reality
people have to be real on dates and really show who they are...that is when connection is created....when one is vulnerable ... so do the hard stuff and get married...
main problem here is
1 need more classes about marriage...should be taught as part of the system after smicha and seminary by professionals not mashpiem...they mess up so many shidduchim as well
2. better website to make sure all the boys and girls are accounted for
3. there should be a dating site set up for all the girls and boys that dont want to do the traditional style of dating...this system will not work for them....we have to deal with this otherwise you are telling 35 percent of the community that we dont care and they should go on their own
part of the system is to be in touch with the professional or another one and it has to be clearly stated what the bochur wants is and what he she wants in life.....otherwise its the parents dating not the kids..
i have a lot more to say...i hope something i said resonated
with some of the readers....
much luck and god bless all and the united states of america
I think personality indicators aren't just great for perspective couples, but for married couples as well.
We are in the process of developing a group specifically designed for this cause. The group is xurrently in beta and in early stages.
First, the personality test is taken. Then based on your preferences we offer suggestions based on your preferences (only suggested).. Then you can go to a shadchan and say "Look into so and so".
What is Keirsey?
The Keirsey Temprament Sorter (KTS) is a brilliant Jungian self-assessed personality questionnaire designed to help people better understand themselves and others. It was first introduced in the book Please Understand Me.
The fundamental premise is simple: We each have unique preferences in how we gather, process, organize and communicate information.
Am I committing to anything?
Nothing whatsoever. All we are doing is merely suggesting ideas to you based on YOUR own preferences. What's wrong with hearing another name? One that fits with what you are looking for.
What's so great about Personality Tests?
Most of all, the personality indicator helps to cut through the clutter of resumes and focus on what really matters. Moreover, personality tests help us understand each other better.
Why didn't we do things like this 20 years ago?
With so many singles out there, it's getting harder and harder to match people up. Small lists soon become pages and pages loaded with names without orientation. As we marry later, we have time to develop our personalities, thus playing a more significant role than it once did.
How do we define compatibility?
Just as temperament in a matter of preference, so too is compatibility a matter of preference. Although there are generalizations about which types are most attractive to which, we may prefer one or two things and that over-ride the rest. This may be a preference for introversion, or tough-mindedness, or structure.
Don't personality tests work to confine you to a box?
Absolutely not! If anything advocates of personality tests stand to liberate the confined, working to stop the diagnosis children with A.D.D. in favor of learning to understand their complexities. When we learn to look beyond the face-value of the people we meet, we discover a world of untapped potential.
Isn't it true that any marriage can work and all relationships require attention?
It is true. It's often said that at some point every marriage meets a moment of divorce and it's up to both sides to work past it. Yet, while ANY match can work to create a successful marriage, there are nonetheless suggestions that can help us in finding someone who compliments are most deep-seated needs and desires.
If you'd like more info, email us at personalfulfillment@gmail.com
I do feel for you in your sich.
mmgt477@gmail.com
I have several friends who are looking for chassidishe super-models. What's that about!?
Which side is unrealistic ? lets first agree that men and women are.. different..
And each person needs different things.. I think of it as a business partnership.. I do all the buying but my brother controls the finances.. At first its hard to get used to it, he is after all my younger brother and I ran the business on my own for years.. but then you realize that you have a working relationship.. he excels at controlling the finances.. he asks questions that I must answer truthfully and satisfactory.. or he does not let me buy..
The main key is being honest, truthful and open.. both with yourself and with others..
#21.. yes we get ideas off the internet... and so what ?!? or maybe we believe in romance ? which cant be goyish can it ? just read shir hashirim or tehillim... but you will say "thats about jews and G-d".. and I will answer that all that which pertains above is relevant below in the physical sense..
Point fingers all you want, but I rather stay happy incomplete single than subjugate myself to an unhappy marriage..
So no, I have not really dated and i'm 26.. I dont feel like time is running out or there is a big rush..
Altogether, the american world strikes me as selfish, I fail to see how any one is ready to get married... i'm not attacking.. i'm just telling you how I feel.
The shadchonim are to blame. The parents. The bochurim. The girls. The family and friends who know best. It's always someone else. You are how old (32?) and single and you know better than everyone and that's why you are still single!
No one owes you anything. No one owes you the hours upon hours of time to research, setup, follow through, be rejected and go to bat for you etc etc
It's time you all looked in the foggy mirror, wipe it clean and ask yourself a simple question: Do I or do I not want to get married? Am I being realistic? Do I meet the other's expectations? Get off your high horse and take responsibility. Both sides are to blame. Instead of just venting frustration, be honest with yourselves and have a bit of siyateh dishmayo.
I think everyone has a hard time dating. But just because we think that a guy we go out with is rude or lazy doesn't mean he's actually rude or lazy. Some other girl might swoon for him.
I think there should be across the board education for dating. Rules, things to talk about, things to steer away from, etc. If a person doesn't know basic conversational etiquette then someone might be turned off. Girls also need to take responsibility, I myself dated a guy for a while that I was interested in and after a great 5th date he ended it. I think our friend who acted as shadchan said very nice things to me that he said, which I don't think he said :)
The point is, girls and boys need to sit down and really find out what they're looking for. Get specific about the character. And if you girls are so frustrated about the fact that a guy wants to see a picture then you are denying the way Hashem made men, visual. First they see. We women are not visual creatures to begin with. Sometimes women become attracted after dating a boy for a while.
Shadchanim who professionally call themselves so do not get the entire pool of people. I know several people who got a shidduch by staying by a family and getting a good recommendation. But if a person isn't making a kli for themselves then they have nothing to complain about. Doven for it, be specific and make a kli. It will come in the right time, and remember, all the bad dates clarify what you want and don't want in a partner. It's all a learning process and it's ALL hashgacha pratis!
Just out of curiousity . . .What is the "Best'' Seminary????
And why does that define the person????
Do you honestly think that the Seminary you go to, makes a person???? I have the most wonderful daughter, and 'horror of horrors', she did not go to that 'best' seminary, . . . does that immediately put her way down the line . . .
Is'nt it about time that we start looking into our priorities . . . i.e. Not going to the 'best Sem' does NOT make one a lesser person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and should not break or make a shidduch suggestion!!!! Shameful, hurtful and totally irrational!!!
You're very humble, too.
May you all get married this year and end the problem
Kol K'vuda Bas Melech P'nima. the beauty's from within.
I am not a shadchan, but a happily married woman ka"h and I want to help. I have read enough on this site and heard enough in my community that I want to do something to help. You can email me at notashadchan@gmail.com, and I can tell you more about myself. As I get interest (if I get interest!) from both bochurs and girls, then we'll try to go from there. You can send me a simple inquiry email before deciding whether to submit your name, I don't mind. I just don't want to stand on the sideline and bemoan the state of affairs without trying to help in some way.
The lovely people who matched me with my husband were not shadchans either, but very kind and thoughtful friends and acquaintances who made the right call.
(thank G-d) and Bochurim were not caught up in the Television, internet world where they perceive the ideal female spouse to be GORGEOUS all the time. The word DIET didn't even exist in our vocabulary. We were happy go lucky girls who were not necessarily size 4 but well kempt, and nice looking. The current generation of Shidduch aged boys/girls have their priorities skewed along with their long check off list for perfection (unless it's the Mothers). Focus on the important things. May Hakodosh Boruch Hu bless all the those that are in need of Shudduchim to meet their right zivug B'korov Mamash!!!
tired of dealing with parents who aren't honest to themselves or
to others. Many mothers of daughters claim that their daughters
want a frum, chassidishe bochur who has yiras shamayim, but
he must be "worldly". When you meet the girl she is definetly
"worldy" but far removed from Chassidishkeit, frumkeit, tznius,
etc. They are not looking for what their parents Please stop wasting everone's time. Let your children date people that are compatible to them.
another point: if people would stop being so self-conscious and have the courage to ask the other side maybe more shidduchim would happen. Many times i saw how people let a good suggestion go by because they were afraid to ask out of fear of rejection.
Face it! rejection will happen, it has to happen until it doesn't and then you found the right one, so its OKAY to take the chance and ask; and don't worry you'll live even if you are rejected.
I feel like girls AND boy are so scared to "put themselves out there" for fear of rejection. AGAIN don't worry, it not like the word trade center will come crashing down if a guy says no to you. Life will go on.
here is my piece- we girls are also to blame. i mean how many times can we drive a bochur crazy with yes/no/yes/no and then just not being able to decide...? i think men are better at making final decisions. anyway we should realize that there is a lot of effort that goes into the boys side, he has to do all teh arrangements and the expenses and getting to the girl if shes not around, etc... so lets not play so innocent here fellows! and yes, lets be a bit openminded when suggestions come up- youre marrying a guy not his great grandfather!!!!!!!
while i see how so many girls are being highly productive and realistic about their time and how they spend it, whether it means educating themselves or working in teaching positions OR OTHERS, many boys , to my utter amazement, continue to "fool themselves" that they are productive and realistic about how they spend their time when, in fact, they are the farthest thing from that.
it is extremely rare to find a boy who is 24+ and realistically realizes that learning all day as a 770 "bochur" is not exactly working out, and therefore does whatever he has to do to find other opportunities.
you'll find so many "Quality boys" sleeping to the afternoon hours on a daily basis, shoving the bull for the rest of the day in 770 or elsewhere, and yet continue to expect that a girl that they should date be serious and accomplished
to all those 25+ bochurim who waste their time all day....YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE, and if you are 27 years old, and have absolutely nothing to show for yourself for the past few years, because you're too "Chassidish" to go to college C"V, but sleeping and shoving all day is chassidish enough for you....you're really in for a crushing reality as a dating boy and definitely as a married man....of course so many girls will be "too serious" for you , because they take their life seriously.
the rest of your life is not about watching your hardworking wife slave away working with her skills while you sit in kollel drinking coffee
i am not only implying the college is the only option out there C"V, but dear buchurim, do you really think that saying to a shadchan that you're interested in shlichus or a serious learner and therefore not pursuing any other interests is a pretty enough coverup for your chronic time wasting and lack of accomplishment?
whenever i get a phone call from anyone in reference to a shidduch about one of my friends or my husband's friends and i get the ridiculous question "so , does he/she want to go on shlichus?" i answer them "excuse me, what exactly do you mean? who is going on shlichus these days? where are they going to exactly?"
Buchurim, it's time to wake up and smell the sour reality that shlichus is not longer the glamorous option that it used to be (and the "good enough" excuse for not pursuing anything else). it's time to start being serious with your time. have something to show for yourselves
i know it is very hard to break out of a very, very long "tradition" of not thinking of any other options, but we've reached that point in time. you have interests, and not all of them require college (although some do). think about them, make projects and goals for yourselves,
with that said, i think the bochurim might appreciate the girls efforts more, will be more respect worthy as husbands (which is soo important in a marriage), and be much better prepared for the difficulties of the real world that lie ahead.
B"H, B"H B"H she broke it off after he spent a fortune taking her to very nice places to eat even though we don't usually do that. she led him a dance over a few weeks.
we later found out that this "frum" girl is not very frum at all. Which brings up another point that people have to tell the truth. Don't tell me when I call, Mrs. Shlucha, that "Chavie" ALWAYS wears stockings. It isn't true but she played the game because her parents really wanted our son because they were having a very hard time getting this bargain married off.
Were so grateful it didn't work out because he would have been miserable. GIRLS ARENT HONEST EITHER!
Most of them proabbly see parents, aunts, uncles , friends with not-so happy marriages and just think....im not going to end up like that...i want to be SURE i will be happy before i marry or its not worth it.
I dont blame them....im married...for many years...whilst i wouldnt get divorced for many many reasons...our marriage is not as happy as it should be....
most of these kids just need real real guidance about how to make a really succesful marriage and theyll be more willing to take the leap.
as i was told once: marriage is about building a relationship, its not just about 'being however or whoever you are' and it takes skills..and if we dont ahve them, which most of us dont...well then it probably just wont.
Til this day I dont understand how our parents just send us off ot marry without the right skills....
i believe in the frum community the statistics are like the majority are not-so-happy-have-big-problems -but-are-ok-and-make-do, a lot are terribly-miserably-failing in ther marriage, a few are really happy, and well a few divorce - and im talking about int he long term, (so if you're married less than ten years, you dont count towards these statistics)
it would be interesting if we took an anonymous survey with real serious participants what it would look like!!
anyway, Hashem should just bless us all with the abiliity to make it work!
Hey your all right... your just not meant for each other.. the shallow ones will marry the fakes.. those with $ can marry shallow ones with good looks etc etc etc etc...
But hey, i'm still not dating.. I agree with all of you above, it stinks.. so who needs it ? deff not me....
Trust in Hashem, do your work, but you're not searching for the "perfect"other half, just the one who was created for you.
Maybe daven fo a little help and don't go out on a million dates just because they are suggested.
2.11
For boys only
stop bringing in the rebbe... tell them the rebbe gave u a bracho instead of asking for cash.
if only u acted and treated the ppl that come to u the way the rebbe wold want u to.
Second, being that you're also proud of being a descendant of the Rebbeim, please don't state that "any one who thinks that going to college is wrong is out of their mind"(with editing), because our dear Rebbe was unequivocally(with thin borderline exceptions) opposed to the idea.
i think people would feel a lot more comfortable if you put your name and we know who you are
hatzlacha
2. Parents should be more proactive in pushing their kids to call things off. They shouldn't view dating as a form of entertainment. If they did view it as such they might as well get their kids membership to a night club.
3. Girls look down at guys while I (a girl) know many respectable guys that work, daven and are put together. You have to adjust what your looking for.
4. In summation shluchus is a major issue. It is a way for both the guy and the girl to differ thinking practically about life leading to exactly the dilemma in this article.
Tip to writer... Remove shluchis from your requirements and you will see a world of difference
To number 21
I think that to blame the whole issue of "shidichim" of what "Bouchrim" see on the internet is false.
The fact of the matter is that boys are attracted to girls of what they deem to be attracted to. Nowadays mass media and advertising are getting people to see one kind of person as attractive. Does the internet contribute to this yes but it is more the modernity of the world as a whole(girls and boys).
People are now just more careless in making up reasons as to why they do not want to go out with someone that they do not deem to be attractive. I would bet that 20 years ago a person just had to be a bit creative when it came to telling the "shadchin" why that girl would not work out. I think in the end it is less painful if the guy knows that he would not be attracted to the girl just not to go out with her. Is this the altruistic and ideological way "shidichim" should be not at all however this is the way it is for most people ( the select few of us in Chabad that are not altruistic)
Now beauty is in the eye of the beholder that is to say that someone might think one girl is attractive and an other might think she is not. Also the longer a person dates the more likely they are to just give in and start a life even if they are not really (at that time) attracted to that person.
~~~
To the author
Do you know what most of the guys you meet are lazy and immature? It is because most guys and girls for that matter at this young age are lazy and immature.!!
If you want to find someone more grown up you need to start asking different questions.
Guys are shy and nervous when they are on a date and like to put on as macho exterior because they are afraid of getting hurt. You just have to calm them so that you can melt away the exterior and see them for the emotional being that they are. In need of care and encouragement just like women.
Keep your head strong don't be discouraged they guy you find will be worth the wait.
good for you, but 98% of us who probably possess these very attributes whit which you describe yourself are not as lucky as you. It can be either because we do not flaunt those virtues as much as you just did, or you must be one of those intouchables, who do as they please and end up with a good shidduch.
you sound even more pathetic that the pittiful shiduch situation.
1) my mother is looking for something that she wants
2)she wont listen to me
3)the girls out there are to sceard to tell there parents what they what (and that's why the parents are not being real about the kid(s)
4)we need to wake up ppl we are living in 2011 things have changed times have changed the world id different not like you remember in the 60 or 70s we are more chilled then we used to be
5)why dose every one cry when some one goes of the path at an older age ___Answer bec when parents are not being real who there kids are (makes us the kids lose our minds and we go explore other things around us )
6) its time for a change in our times the skirts yes we want them right about the knee not lower .................
hope this wakes ppl up if u have any other in takes pls comment
1) she just dose not want to date
2) she does not no who she really is
3) i have no idea what she was thinking we knew each other very well (lets not get into it how what were ) but just from seeing here every day and a while just looking at her didn't make me think she is the one right away but pretty much close (only had to go out with her to find out if it was really the one in my eyes it was ) but she turned it down in a sec if i had the guts i would pick up the phone and call her my self but its not some thing i want to do i rather go through some one to do it
Good luck
I went out with a boy, had a really nice date and thought he did too. I had been a bit shy and didn't think he had a chance to get to know me. (Shorter date than normal.)
Then he says he will have to push off the second date until after camp... OK, I agree to wait.
Towards the end of the summer, my parents get a call from the Shadchan that it's off. The next day, this bochur's name is all over the news sites... he's engaged.
I'm B"H happily married and my husband is definitely perfect for me, but the thought of that incident still hurts.
yeh, yeh, dating game today is a lawless land, and there's no rebbe on which to deflect the decision process, but that's all kid's play compared to once you actually make the leap to lifelong commitment.
almost no one has a clue what they get into until they've jumped off the cliff without a parachute - just each other. you won't know who you maried until well in the game.
have another drink of koolaid folks.
Better meet us in person, and if the looks don't "do it for you", then that can be one factor in whether or not you continue.
Keep in mind that every one of my failed dates taught me something abou the person I WAS looking for. (Found him on the 5th try B"H.)
The point is that when people don't know what they are looking for or aren't ready to get married stay out of the system. Until then being in the systems just burns you out but even worse than that it burns your date out too.
To all of you out there who are single, I've been in the system for many many years and I was miserable. I have no idea how many boys i've gone out with. I've lost count a few years back. I felt shadchanim were just spitting out names with no reason at all. Some of the names weren't even in the ballpark...
But when I finally did meet the one it was right and everything just clicked. I know its discouraging and its really easy to get burnt out (I know I did.) But keep being a mentch and keep dating for the right purposes and with help from the one above your zivug will reveal itself.
May we all be zoche to happy marriages!!!
Good luck.
As far as complaining about shadchanim, anyone can become a shadchan and set up shop without a minute's worth of training. If you don't like a shadchan, get someone else involved.
if people would only put Hashem into the equation, things would be so much better!
We have the right formula for marriage-has been working for years and years now: al yesodei hatorah v'hamitzvah.
This is what is everlasting, not modern romance.....
People have faults-we are all human, but the focus should be on the positive aspects of the other person, their strengths.
When building at a construction site, one needs to be very mindful of the faults and potential setbacks-so that nothings topples over and collapses, true.
However, the focus should be on the positives involved-how to make this building work in the most beautiful and efficient manner with all the assets and good resources that are included.
People-we are working on making the geulah a reality-right?
Just think how much holiness and mitzvos can be brought into this world upon the marriage of a new couple and the establishment of a new Jewish home!
And the assurance is there-strong foundation of Torah & mitzvos-solid and strong. Let's make that commitment!
And to all you chatters: iyh you will get engaged real soon with the one that fits you best, and collive will post your engagement, l'echaim:)
We should embrace the human part of each other. We should understand that one person's taivas are on the outside and another's may be hidden on the inside (like davening properly 3x a day might be hard for someone but the fact that they daven 3x will get them a date. Same for a tznius girl who shows her toes. She is covering up everything else and that should say something about her and get her a date.)
Tanya teaches that we should not aim to be tzadikim. Don't expect perfection because Hashem doesn't expect it either. Just be honest about what you are willing to do for your G-d and your people and how ou will do it, especially once you have kids. The other side should understand that Hashem will be happy if we raise kids to be good humans, who learn Torah and do Mitzvos with Ahavas Yisroel and Yiras Shomayim.
My defence is to be vague, just describe my torah values and life goals on the resume. Then, if someone shows interest and I don't see him as a threat (a guy who is making a bet that I will date him or a guy who just wants to look at a girl close up or a guy who will tell all his friends everything I said and how he is making me fall for him) I will finally show my personality on a date.
If I could be certain that only respectful people will handle my resume and not show it to someone without my permission, then I would add details about myself and what I enjoy in life.
Buchurim, it's time to wake up and smell the sour reality that shlichus is not longer the glamorous option that it used to be (and the "good enough" excuse for not pursuing anything else). it's time to start being serious with your time. have something to show for yourselves"
as a ungerman, i can agree with many of poitns you made, however to say that shlichus is not a option, is simply not true.
There many places and opportunitis for shlichus, but guys turn them down cause' they want a place that was only available 20 years ago, big town lots of money, chinuch, kashrus, be their own boss.
if couples would be more idelstic, they would grab the offers out there.
there are miilons of jews we have not reached yet. look how many reform temples there are in cities all across the US, do we have a presence in all those cities yet?
The answer is no.
We can easily send out another 1000 shluchim in the next 3 years.
but first we have to stop this pessimism, "there are no places for shlichus".
Im finding this all quite cute! people should really be set up via these comments :D :D :D :D
Anyways, to say the guys bumming around should go to college I must disagree, you don't fix one problem with another, although the bochurin aren't learning, at least they are in an environment of learning and farbrenging, put them in college and forget about it. I think there should be some more shiurim/mashpiim involved with the bochurim in 770 to inspire them to use their time out.
So “forgive me” if, I glance at the tv to check the sports, or if I look twice at the waitress, or if it seems like im listening to you but really your just babaling about nothing for sooooo long, or I cant take my mind off the lipstick shmear on your tooth, or the shwarma I had for lunch is making me feel a bit squirmy, etc.
And to top it off, I go home completely unsatisfied, then I just end up hanging out by my computer the rest of the night, so back off girl in your EARLY 20’s.
PS. Don’t be hating on the "handbag" or "trophy wife" just because they're pretty.
Sheesh. If that's what collEge produces, I'm glad my children only went through the Yeshiva system. Even my boys know where to put a period & a capital letter.
The people with the problems and the bad values did not just appear - it took decades for them to come to this point.
Time to invest in our children when they are SMALL and teach them a proper derech.
My 2 cents
If this woman wants to marry a mature, strong, intelligent, capable, talented and beautiful person, she should date another girl.
i have seen how "friends" and SHADCHANIM have failed my friends so why would any one in there right mind put them self through it!!!!!!!!!
2; If you do visit a shadchan, you should interview him/her before you are interviewed. Ask about their process, their success rate, how many of their dates have culminated in marriage, and how many of those marriages are still marriages. You are trusting an utter stranger with the most important decision you'll ever make, but most will ask less then they would of their car salesman.
3: Get busybody parents out of the equation quickly. Too many parents nix too many good options for their wonderful son/daughter. Do a little research and then get out of the way. If your son/daughter is old enough and mature enough to get married, then they are also old enough and mature enough to figure out who to marry.
4: Refuse to answer questions that are in appropriate.
5: Don't feel compelled to send a picture if you don't want to.
6: Don't be so desperate. The shidduch crisis you've been hearing about? It's a fallacy. The only real crisis is a crisis of maturity, sensibility, and self responsibility.
Seems like many eligible girls/boys begin dating without having a clear idea of what/who they are looking for (seen this first hand). So how could they know if they found him/her? He/she could be sitting right across the table from them, but they wouldn’t know it. So yes, a pre-dating course would be very beneficial – just to get them focused properly. That should save a lot of time & aggravation and create many more happy marriages.
I was comment #11. Baruch Hashem a number of people contacted me. Girls only contacted me, but not a single bachur!!!!! Come on bachurim, you have to be a little more responsible and step forward. It's time for you to start building a Jewish, Chassidishe Lubavitcher home. Please contact me at getmarriedthisyear@gmail.com.
i personaly think that its not the ultimate solution to have a shadchan make u a shidduch...cuz the shadchan doesnt even know u. its mostly by fate i think. i met someone special in a really random way, and he is the best guy in the world. no one suggested him for me. so basicaly yeah, i think you should go look for urself for ur soulmate. tho in the frum world, its not so apropriate, but i think it works and is the best way. cuz u are the one getting married to that guy, not ur parents or shadchan. so, u should be the one to decide. its like eating dinner at a restaurant, u order the food and u eat it, so you wouldent want your parents to be saying to the waiter: "please give me the real bland healthy noodles and fish, thats the best right?"
It never occurred to me if my future wife will wear stockings or not.. or socks or saran wrap or tinfoil.. I cant conceive why this is the foundation of the marriage and the jewish home...
This seems all shallow to me... what happened to vital things such as "how do you see yourself on life ? where do you want to go, how do you want to be in the future ?"
Whatever happened to stuff like what type of heart and soul they have ? are they compassionate ? will they make a good spouse / parent ?
Are they sincere, dedicated, devoted... I dont see why saying chitas is even 5 points ?
whoever went to this class: http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=13121&hl=argentina
im sure knows all the points so clear!
good luck!!
i am a girl, and i can honestly say i would never want to go out with a guy like you.
you think your the only one that is putting fourth?
we also have to get dressed up, do out makeup, wear heals (any girl who says they are comfortable, is a lier)
and to try so hard, all we ask for is your attention.
would you like it if we were looking around the room while you were talking.
if you want to go check out the waitress, go the the restaurant with your buddys, and don't leave it for a date.
if your not mature enough to be dating... stop dating. because your obviously not going to find the right one, until your ready.
so stop wasting the girls time.
Of course girls like to see handsome guys, but if they meet a guy who is really nice and has a great personality, most girls will overlook the fact that the guy is short or fat.
Of course there are exceptions to this, just like by boys there are a few who do not care that much about the girls looks. However, these are only exceptions and do not usually occur.
The reason for this is simple. Guys care much more about the here and now. Girls on the other hand are more mature and because of that they look long term and realize that looks fade, but the personality always stays.
Anyone think otherwise?
MARRIED" second of all! GUYS!!!! You need to stop blogging your emotions! It's really cheap!!!! Turn off the computer and start working!!!!
The mother contacts me on behalf of their children. I had more responses for girls than for boys, but I am still reaching out to the boys, "Bachurim, your frame of mind should be to build a Jewish home. Why wait and causes others to wait?"
getmarriedthisyear@gmail.com
She & her parents treated the shadchan as less than human & our son as irrelevant.
Stop blaming shadchanim they are also people many who do it only for a mitzva, often they are treated very badly & certainly not respectfully .
Parents of girls, start teaching your daughters basic manners, no they don't need to hold the door open, but they need to treat their date with respect even if the person is not their bashert.
And please teach your daughters NOT to discuss their shidduchim with friends.
To those parents who are in gezhe category , get off your high horse!
On the other hand, if girls were to behave in this carefree manner, they would quickly be associated with the 'troubled" girls. (Yes, here is a double standard, but that is not the point.) We tend to expect more from 'good' girls. Don't blame me for pointing it out, thats the way it is in society.
The bochrim are irresponsible in general. Some go carefree from job to job, project to project, sleeping in as they feel. Many of them don't feel an obligation to the home they grew up in, let alone an obligation to establish a home of their own. They have no clock ticking in their bodies that will prevent them from having children at some point. They feel they can continue to have their 'vacation' as long as they want. And they can. If fact if they venture out a little too far, they can always buy a new borsalino, put on an italian jacket, and they are 'back'.
Most 'good' girls are busy with school, helping at home, and being there for the family who raised them. They are more focused, down to earth and pining away waiting. Unfortunately the girls will never be given this leeway their brother get and they know it.
That is why it's a boys market for chassidishe young people. The ratio of 'chassidish' boys to 'chassidish' girls is nearly 1:10. This is no exaggeration, check it out on the best and cleanest shidduch resource online, chabadmatch.com. Do a search there (select some of the chassidisheh hanhogas for boys, black hat, chitas, no movies, chabad shchita, etc., and the corresponding ones for girls, sheitel, etc) and you will see for yourself!
Sadly, some girls are becoming very lax in tznius, perhaps seeking to get noticed in the crowd, but it's backfiring. Those few chassidisheh boys and their families will ignore them.
But bochrim, we need to get our priorities in order. Like the fabled grasshopper who fiddled his summer away, winter will also come for you. Are you doing what you should be doing at this point in life? Are you prepared to follow your destiny in life, ultimately establishing an honorable family and IY"H bringing up chassidishe children? And if you are not asking yourself these questions, why is your sister asking,
Number 16. Are you serious? What is wrong with you? Perhaps the parents should negotiate the exchange of goats and land prior to the boy and girl having their business meeting? Wake up, out side of Eastern Pky between whatever street you live on time did not stand still and it is 2011. And yes while you will argue Torah is above time etc etc..I don’t see you living in a shetetel with mud up to your knees and sleeping on a shul bentch. I do see many frum people and yungerlait that have a profession. Grow up and catch up, we have to live with the times and if we want our children to continue in the path of torah and mitzvos we better get wise about it.
number 114, you are spot on. PARENTS LISTEN TO YOUR KIDS. What you want may not be what they want. You want your daughter o date someone who is interested in shlichus but she may want someone who will actually provide for her. You may want a girl who’s grandfather made kiddush on zeks un nintziker and danced and made kulles in the streets of lubavitch but your son may want a girl from a warm family etc etc.
Parents you need to realize that if your child is old enough to get married and have children of their own..they are old enough to decide WHAT THEY WANT! No, you do not know better.
Bucherim: Get you act together. By now you should know what you want. Do you want to go on shlichus and if yes you know that it is easier said then done. Do yo have a game plan? Is there a shlichach you worked for that was so impressed with you that he has talked with you about moving out inteh future or do you have a friend/family member ready to expand and you are candidate? Do you want to join the working world? If yes what is your plan? Is your strategy that of "I went to OT I like all lubab bucherim and a chevraman and I will just start a business and make millions"? Or have you considered what you will do?
Parents/bucherim/gilrs...getting married is the start, but the honeymoon last until the first rent check is due. If your from the lucky few who have means and can support or be supported by your parents then you have time to play house and figure it out after you get married. If your from the (un)lucky group who get a section 8 food stamps spend two yrs in kollel while and sub whn OT or ULY need while your wife teaches in Bais Rivka..I guess you can either figure it out in a few years or will remain stuck in the cycle and when I pass you on kingston strolling up or dwn Kingston @10am slowly looking bored of life and wonder what the heck happen to you I remember when you were a "great catch".
I dont mean to mock anyone. Point is fix this shidduch problem! That includes shaddchunim. Personally if your over 50 retire. If you dont know what facebook is, retire. Not b/c Facebook is important but b/c you are NOT up to speed with the nxt generation. The best shiduchim are referels from friends and family. People who actully know teh boy/girl. And people plz DATE! DATE! DATE! not for 2 weeks there should be a 3-4 month minimum. Get to the point were teh boy/girl is comfortable enough to be themselves and not teh version of themselves they feel they are expected to be. Girls if they guy can not give a straight answer of what he wants to do with his life and how he plans on going about it..RUN. Guys if you dont feel a connection break it off. Parents...In the long run it makes no diff what Yeshiva he went to or what Sem she went to. Does she watch movies..gasp! Will they be good to your child..that’s what matters.