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Tuesday, 25 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 5, 2024

It’s Time to Come Forward

A group fighting predators in Crown Heights wrote a response to a letter from the Vaad Hakohol which called for caution before action. Full Story

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Molested in CH in the 1970's
August 19, 2011 3:31 am

I was a student at Bais Rivkah in the 1970’s and was sent to see a physician for abdominal pain. The physician molested me. When I reported this to the administration at the school, I was told to keep my mouth shut, I shouldn’t say things like that, the physician is a religious man, he would never do such a thing. But he did, and it hurt physically and emotionally. I believe he still practices in Brooklyn. I pity the young women (and possibly young men) who may have been and may still be being molested by this man. It… Read more »

this is the right way
August 10, 2011 4:46 pm

great someone here has mentshlachkite!!!!!!!! ohalei torah chai!!!!!!!!!

NO NEED TO DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WROTE THE LETTER
August 9, 2011 5:11 am

Anonymity is very good sometimes. Attacking the author of the letter is not. The person seeks to prevent evil. Bringing exposure can nip the problem in the bud. The accusations of those who demand to know who wrote the letter are inherently evil. Why don’t you just accept the motives inside the letter and try to protect innocent people instead of protecting criminal? Why do you want to know who wrote it> so that you can go after them and stop what they are doing?? What’s your motive? It obviously is NOT for the victim. The anonymity here is powerful… Read more »

By definition, this letter is a PASHKVILL.????
August 8, 2011 2:44 pm

Lets stop with the self righteous platitudes and stop burying our heads in the sand..Experience has shown that those have pursued or attempted to pursue a rigorous, proactive effort to reveal the names of these perverts have been harassed and in some cases have been physically attacked.They and their families have been threatened with dire consequences regarding shidduchim for their children, ostracism etc. from their frum communities if they continue to pursue in their efforts to get rid of these perverts.Is it any wonder then, that the author(s) of this so called “pashkvil” have not signed their letter?

To #50 Girls get hurt too
August 8, 2011 11:58 am

Be strong and get help. You sound great!

What difference does it make?
August 8, 2011 9:47 am

In the end, what difference does it make if someone did or did not sign it? The message is the same, and the same people read it that would have read a signed letter. So why don’t you just take the message and think about its meaning?

PASHKVIL
August 8, 2011 8:47 am

By definition, this letter is a PASHKVILL. There is no names, no one to take responsibility for it.

The vaad clearly said to go to the proper authorities with all claims of molestation! What do you want from them?

I was initially happy at the establishment of CHW but are they responsible people? Are they looking to exploit a situation to further their personal goals and to gain power?

LIBEL
August 8, 2011 1:14 am

The most likely reason Crown Heights Watch has not listed it’s members or leaders is for the real concern that they could be hit with a libel lawsuit. Without a solid LEGAL case against all the alleged perpetrators, they run a risk of a lawsuit brought against them. I think the public service they are providing is most necessary and I don’t think they need to endanger themselves in the process. That is, as long as the identified perpetrators are definitely perpetrators and there is not a scintilla of doubt.

be careful
August 7, 2011 11:40 pm

I ain’t taking sides in the CHW and Vaad letter-writing, but I want y’all to know that there’s a wickedly wild swing going on in this pendulum of social awareness and reaction. First we think all is well under the canopy of torah people. then we get hit in the face by horrific incidents. then we all become judges and experts. it doesn’t wortk that way. if you hear about an incident you rarely, if ever, hear it from the victim. and there are many stories of people getting revenge on someone by spreading false rumors, which once out cannot… Read more »

consider this
August 7, 2011 10:29 pm

The more terrible you try to present the act of child abuse, the more terrible the consequences of someone being falsely accused.

at least pretend your grown up, crown heights
August 7, 2011 10:25 pm

the letter was anonymous? STOP NIT PICKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so immature, to read a letter filled with important content and say, well too bad it was anonymous….I’m highly disappointed.

Girls get hurt too!!
August 7, 2011 8:55 pm

All the focus seems to be on men attacking boys. I am a young women who was molested by a lady teacher in high school. It started with some very explicit talk and ended with many times of intimate touch under the clothes. I felt ashamed and felt guilty, thinking that I did something wrong by allowing it and even getting pleasure from it. I now know better – that I was molested, and I know first hand that anyone can be a molester, even the kind older married lady teacher! It’s not just boys who are victims and the… Read more »

To #48
August 7, 2011 7:19 pm

Furthermore, when we know information that could save people from being hurt, all rules of lashon harah and rechilus are out the window and to NOT speak is a grave sin of do not stand idly by your brother’s blood. – Leviticus 19:16.

cornerstone of our modern democracy, Jewish law
August 7, 2011 2:35 pm

THE WRITERS HAVE EXPOSED THEIR VEIWS, BY PLACING MODERN DEMOCRACY BEFORE TORAHS ETHICS.
its no suprise they feel nothing for severe sin of loshon horah and its efects

Mother of victim
August 7, 2011 2:28 pm

Bs”D The public needs to be aware of what is happening. The victims have all been in hiding because of fear or shame. When the victims hear that a predator has been exposed, they feel courage to open up and tell their stories of abuse. To equate the victims of abuse with families of a predator – calling the families “victims” is to hush-hush the victims who have come forward and hush-hush any victims who may be willing to come forward. Yes the families need to be treated with respect. However, the victims need to be the encouraged and encouraged… Read more »

WARNING
August 7, 2011 10:24 am

The content of CrownHeightsWatch’s website is highly innapropriate. While I agree that victims should speak out, I disagree with the method used by CHWatch. It’s too raw.

By the way, the Vaad’ letter was GREAT and SENSITIVE for EVERY PARTY involved and the accusations of CHWatch are baseless as the Vaad’s letter does not contain what CHWatch are accusing it to contain.

fishel, zaki?????/
August 7, 2011 10:22 am

fishel,zaki were is your letter supporting the victims to come forward? Why haven’t we seen anything from you guys yet??

to #27
August 7, 2011 5:16 am

watch your son, talk to your son, they exist EVERYWHERE in the frum communities, he could be a “BIG RABBI” or just the janitor, or just some older boys in yeshiva taking advantage of a younger boy, people when will you wake up and admit that the frum cummunities are infested with them, maybe you can reffer to a case in kfar chabad where a assistant kinder garden teacher has molested childern some as young as 3 years old and from personal knowledge most of them are in therapy and will be for many years to come, unlike here the… Read more »

thank you 25
August 7, 2011 3:52 am

your comment is a breathe of fresh air

# 40
August 7, 2011 2:49 am

you write that CHW substantiates there claims. I have yet to see from all what they have put up on their site to be substantiated except one (who was arrested and released on bail). as i see it, thay are hidding behind a blind wall without a name because just that reason that don’t have any proof or even better yet they have an agenda to take revenge in some people and will except FALSE stories, without checking them to see if it true at all.

remaining anonymous
August 7, 2011 2:45 am

There have been a number of instances where individuals
(and their families) who exposed predators have been threatened both physicality and verbally.In one instance one of these whistle blowers was nearly killed by bullet shots and this all within frum communities.This,I would assume is the reason for the anonymity of those behind the CH community watch

Just maybe what they did is the right thing
August 7, 2011 2:02 am

1, If, the general public is unaware of the alleged predator who still has contact with potential victims – by publicizing their name, it has clear benefit by saving future children and teenagers lives from being ruined or put at risk. 2. Furthermore, sometimes it helps more victims to get courage to come forward. 3. Sometimes placing their name in public spaces is the last resort, when nothing was done previously to stop the predator from continuing their perverted activities. This includes shipping them to another country where they will find even more victims because no one knows their history.… Read more »

Some pointers
August 7, 2011 1:38 am

Some pointers from the vaad’s letter to me it looked like it was being pointed all at CHW. But, we are told to suspend judgment until a full investigation and fair process is conducted, because without a fair process we do not know what really happened. Before the conclusion of a fair process, we can be relying on rumors, half-memories, miscommunications, and (sometimes) even intentional deceit. An alleged perpetrator may be guilty, but he also may be innocent. The possibility of his innocence is (even if you think small, still) very real. If he is guilty – he will be… Read more »

huh? i dont get this...
August 7, 2011 1:10 am

they didnt write not to advertise, they just warned not to publicize until its known for sure, since it destroys their life…and unfortunately chwatch is NOT being so careful, relying on the corrupted us system instead…

to #9
August 7, 2011 12:27 am

If you were truly a “target of molestation,” how could you post something so absurd. Knowing someone who was molested, I do not believe that ANYONE EVER put in that situation would say NOT to advertise alleged offenders…

mothers
August 7, 2011 12:27 am

great! there is finally awarness in our community! what a great way to have people talk about this subject!

continue finding solutions
August 7, 2011 12:05 am

This is the beginning of finding solutions. The unfortunate truth that abuse exists in our communities and that it needs to be addressed is the main issue, The fact is we need to address this and root it out, help the victims, explore community responses for awareness, prevention, ways to protect our families and send a clear message that this is unacceptable to allow this fear and lack of morality to continue, PLEASE continue working on real solutions !! Open your eyes people thats how we will bring true redemption !!

I agree
August 6, 2011 11:39 pm

I agree with 1,2,9

I am so HAPPY CHWatch wrote their letter!!!!
August 6, 2011 11:36 pm

They truly have now done what is necessary…

EXPOSING themselves and their buffoonery.

They are not really interested in helping children, but empowering themselves to extort and blackmail others.

I vote to BOYCOTT (I’m talking about their sponsors!)

Boruch N. Hoffinger BS"D
August 6, 2011 11:32 pm

#2 I heard it ‘Shomrim.’
They’re doing a wonderful job.
Bring back flogging. Bood and peeling skin might do these scoundrels very well!
If this society doesn’t protect children we have no right to exist.

what is wrong with us!!
August 6, 2011 11:26 pm

When a lubavitcher is convicted we all stand up for them. when will we start thinking with our heads? people have faults, even yiden! just look at what happened with one of the known predators! the judge even said that we made him into the victim instead of focusing on the real victims. WHEN WILL THIS STUPIDITY END AND WE STOP MAKING A BIGGER MOCKERY OF OURSELVES?

to 27
August 6, 2011 11:20 pm

montreal is above humanity?

Apology
August 6, 2011 11:15 pm

The vaad needs to send out an apology letter! It does not matter who is in charge of crownheightswatch or the fact they did not sign this letter by name; this letter is right. The letter the vaad sent out showed once again that our community will stand up for their own. Honestly, their letter should have FIRST AND FOREMOST showed compassion for the victims but instead was subtly trying to discredit them! as long as the vaad, and people who are more concerned about who wrote this letter keep pushing the important matter aside, we will continue to have… Read more »

Thank you
August 6, 2011 11:10 pm

Thank you for speaking up.
There are molestors that have been protected by the community. There is no gain…. other children are at risk. By protecting molestors one is putting their own relatives at risk.

Montreal
August 6, 2011 10:19 pm

I wonder if this problem exists in Montreal.
I am new to the community and have a son going into Yeshiva. This whole story makes me so nervous for my little boy. Does anyone know of any cases of abuse or molsetation in Montreal Lubav Community?

In short
August 6, 2011 10:03 pm

I think we can all agree that the victims must be encouraged to speak up, but that people who are not a party to the matter and have no way of determining the truthfulness of either side should stay out of it.

CH Watch is misunderstanding the Vaad's letter
August 6, 2011 7:40 pm

I reread the vaad’s letter and they didn’t say the things they are accused to have said by CH Watch. I’m suspecting that CH Watch has its own agenda and is trying to get a name and a share of the cake. The Vaad’s letter was very well written, balanced and sensitive, not only for the victims but alos for the abuser’s family, and it came to remind us that untill a judgment is not issued, we shouldn’t take things into our own hands and not fall into paranoai. It said NOTHING about not reporting child abuses. CH Watch, why… Read more »

Who are they?
August 6, 2011 7:34 pm

I was and I am still in agreement with the Vaad’s letter. The Beis Din signed its names (Rabbis Braun and Schwei), the Vaad signed their name, but those anonymous people from CH Watch didn’t sign their name. The Beis Din and the Vaad made it clear that they ARE at the victims’ sides and that they are not trying tpo protect abusers. But at the same time, we should give justice and police the chance to investigate quietly all the matter. What’s wrong with that? I find it quite fair. What’s the CH Watch’s problem?

No need to talk about this anymore...
August 6, 2011 2:11 pm

The man is arrested and therefore there is no need to talk about it any more. If he is convicted, then he will be in jail. If he is innocent, allow him and his family to move on.

The basic point is that there is no need to gossip about it. He’s arrested, done, over.

for those who cannot understand the reason for the above letter
August 6, 2011 10:43 am

The reason for the above letter is because the Vaad’s letter was a kick in the face to those who suffered abuse by the alleged predator and to any victims who are too scared to speak up. The letter above addresses the issue of the Vaad’s letter encouraging people to keep silent on these matters and think that “innocent until proven guilty” applies in the cases of an alleged predator, even when numerous victims have come forward with their highly personal stories. Even though the article may appear logical and level headed to many people – to a victim of… Read more »

Just maybe what they did is the right thing
August 6, 2011 10:27 am

To #9 who wrote: “It benefits no one by placing advertisements in a paper or website about an alledged offender. ” 1, If, the general public is unaware of the alleged predator who still has contact with potential victims – by publicizing their name, it has clear benefit by saving future children and teenagers lives from being ruined or put at risk. 2. Furthermore, sometimes it helps more victims to get courage to come forward. 3. Sometimes placing their name in public spaces is the last resort, when nothing was done previously to stop the predator from continuing their perverted… Read more »

ezzy
August 5, 2011 7:40 pm

I live out-of-town and am not privy to Crown Heights politics. However, the letter from the Community council does not state any of the things that this article alleges! You cannot have lynching, you cannot have the law taken into vigilante hands. That is not progress, that is going backwards. Victims must be taken seriously – molestation destroys the very fabric of an individuals soul and that of society. However, caution must be taken that anger does not turn to vengeance. Benefit of the doubt must be afforded to all. The truth will emerge, but maligning people publicly is not… Read more »

YAAKOV
August 5, 2011 7:38 pm

BSD

All the vaad’s letter said was that one should assume Keller’s innocent until proven guilty, which is the basic rule of Pirkei Avos, “dan lekaf z’chus.” It doesn’t say that he shouldn’t have been reported on or that we shouldn’t report abusers to the police. It didn’t say anything close to that. This is clear and obvious to anyone who read the letter.

Whoever wrote this letter is wasting his time and trying to create un-needed machloikes. In addition, he has difficulty comprehending what he reads.

who is ch watch
August 5, 2011 7:38 pm

why is it that CH watch is able to set up a website and make evryone believe that all the names on their website are actually guilty of the crimes ??

I am a father and i am happy that there are people out there loking out for all of our children. But if the are other motives for this then we need to be careful before we accuse those people.

Meir
August 5, 2011 7:29 pm

BS:D
Nice letter except they destroyed its message by not signing the letter (pashquil).They want these people exposed but can’t expose themselves, makes sense?

great
August 5, 2011 7:21 pm

smart and true.

we can’t stand by while these people are in our community just running around doing what they want, knowing that they will be protected by the vaad.

if the vaad had any empathy they would agree with this letter

MOST PERTINENT!!
August 5, 2011 7:12 pm

Every single predator listed in the CrownHeightsWatch registry is a serial offender whose crimes have been independently corroborated by many victims or/and whose crimes are a matter of public record. There isn’t a threat of a personal vendetta leading to a false accusation. These individuals are known pedophiles.

exposition
August 5, 2011 7:10 pm

Child molestation is pure horror and should be fully exposed. I think the Vaad Hakahal made that clear and did not try to express any hush hush. I do hav a concern : how do we prevent innocent people who have enemies, from being posted on the new website. Can someone please inform us if these names are first checked out for veracity?. Again, l00% agreement. Evil people who prey on innocent people, weather teachers, or
lay people or ANYONE, MUST be reported to the authorities immediately. Moshiach Now! and all the evil wil be erased

Mother
August 5, 2011 7:03 pm

The recent letter by the Vaad, was not intended to have people not come forward. Yes, if you have a complaint you should go to the PROPER authorities. It was against the internet et al, being the judge, the jury, and the prosecutor in the case. YOu have informed the whole world of who you think is a pedophile. Is that not enough? Do you have to publish every stupid comment that people think can be published on the internet – simply because they do not have to sign their names. Be mature. Be careful. Post the story and leave… Read more »

who r u?
August 5, 2011 6:58 pm

y is it such a secret who CH watch is? if u r sure what u r doing is right – & I am not saying that negatively – y shouldn’t ur name be signed???????/

self righteous individuals
August 5, 2011 6:54 pm

No where in the council letter did it state or imply the communities silence was being called upon. Vigilante-ism and self righteousness, mixed with limited common sense and extremely poor reading comprehension are a potent mix that the letter was most likely intended for. Thank you to col for creating a debate where there is none.

excellent letter
August 5, 2011 6:53 pm

Watching your children from possible molesters is crucial. And if a suspect ends up being innocent, I pity any one who maliciously caused a bad name on someone else. Hashem will take care of it.

There is no connection
August 5, 2011 6:52 pm

I myself was a target of molestation. However I was able to thwart the perpetrator.
It benefits no one by placing advertisements in a paper or website about an alledged offender. And the rabbonim never spoke to that effect.
How will you control blackmail if anyone can come up and identify any person he wishes?

thanks
August 5, 2011 6:32 pm

Well said and thank you!
You are saving lives.
G-d bless you!

Who are these people?
August 5, 2011 6:31 pm

Who are they and who has designated them. Is there a danger that if people are unidentified that they wield power that can be dangerous.

The idea is noble and should be implemented. By people who are willing to be identified and sanctioned by some valid authority. Otherwise a monster will be created.

uh huh
August 5, 2011 6:24 pm

If it isn’t signed it’s a pashkvil.

To the Vaad, From a concerned mother....
August 5, 2011 6:19 pm

the underlying message of the letter that the vaad put of was protecting and simply concerned with the predator and the predators family… there was nooo concern for the victims… this is the first time that the vaad has ever come out with a letter on this topic, and it is also the first time that a predator has finally been exposed… this is after yrs and yrs of abuse, the letter from the vaad should really have been written to the victims, dont you think???? it should have been an apology for not protecting them, for not educating them… Read more »

THANK YOU CH WATCH
August 5, 2011 6:18 pm

thank you ch watch. i just want to tell you that i was a victim of abuse, growing up, and the thing that hurts and affected me the most wasn’t what was done to me, it was by the fact that it was done by some one who i looked up too, some one older then me, some one who was meant to care for and protect me. it was the betrayal that killed me. i dont want to go into the affects that this is had on my life, although i do want to say that i was slowly… Read more »

Crown Heights Watch?????
August 5, 2011 6:09 pm

If you feel so strong about your views and that they are accurate write who you are, its east to rant and bring proofs, but a letter without a name is a pashkvil. I do 100% agree with what you’re writing but without a name it seems like you yourself are scared or afraid of something. the same with the website that you have going. Who is behind it? May we share only besuros tovos.

And who may you be
August 5, 2011 6:08 pm

Who are the people hiding behind the name Crownheightswatch.. At least the Vaad has names. If they believe in their ideas stand by it. Debate openly. Articles like this should not be printed in public media with out individual’s names.

Ch'r
August 5, 2011 6:07 pm

I thought CH watch was normal people these folcks are just trying to exploit a hot topic to get themselves a name!

The letter said nothing about going to the cops if you know something!!!

It was speaking to the CH Yenta who decides they know everything they don’t!!!

I you know something say something, but if you don’t, don’t!!! That is what the letter said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

X