Aug 5, 2011
It's Time to Come Forward

A group fighting predators in Crown Heights wrote a response to a letter from the Vaad Hakohol which called for caution before action.

Friday, August 5, 2011

TO: Vaad HaKohol
390(A) Kingston Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11225
(718) 771 Ė 9000

Re: Aug. 2, 2011 Letter Urging Community Silence and Presumption of Innocence in the Face of Molestation Allegations

Dear Crown Heights Jewish Community Council (CHJCC), Vaad HaKohol and Residents:

Recently the Crown Heights Beis Din issued a Psak Din requiring people to report to the police credible claims of child molestation and abuse in the Jewish community. In light of the recent arrest it is reassuring to see that the community is taking the Beis Dinís mandate seriously. Itís disheartening on the other hand to see the Vaad completely ignore the Beis Dinís mandate by scaring survivors into silence which will assuredly continue to endanger our community.

The presumption of innocence is certainly a sacred cornerstone of our modern democracy, Jewish law and Chazal's teaching of dan l'kaf zechus. The presumption of innocence however does not conflict with the right to free speech and obligation to protect the innocent.

Furthermore, when we know information that could save people from being hurt, all rules of lashon harah and rechilus are out the window and to NOT speak is a grave sin of do not stand idly by your brother's blood. - Leviticus 19:16. It is about public safety. Having compassion for molesters by concealing their identities is an act of cruelty that endangers innocent lives. If a doctor purposely failed to isolate a patient with a deadly contagious disease because it was embarrassing to the patient and his family, it would constitute professional negligence, not an act of compassion! Child molestation is a deadly disease and parents need to know whom to keep their children away from.

If a local retailer were caught selling traif, would there be the same reaction to keep quiet and let the courts sort it out? The people who are active in revealing the truth are simply following the obligations of not standing idly by your neighbor's blood.

Clinical psychologist Dr. Asher Lipner said it best in an article in the Jewish Press published this year:

The mitzvah to confront child molesters is incumbent upon each of us. As Rabbi Shea Hecht charged at a recent gathering for the National Jewish Week for the Prevention of Child Abuse, when Shimon and Levi held the entire city of Shechem accountable for the rape of Dina by only one of its citizens, it taught us for all time that someone who abuses even one Jewish girl or boy must be confronted by every member of society.

Excuses for not doing so include bogus halachic claims of mesira, lashon hara and chillul Hashem; concern over the "unfair" suffering of the abuser's innocent family (who are often victims themselves in need of help); and fear of lawsuits against yeshivas that have knowingly harbored molesters. Not one of these makes sense when the physical, emotional and spiritual safety of children is at stake. Psychological studies repeatedly find that molested children are significantly more likely to suffer later in life from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and addictions, posttraumatic stress disorder, a variety of interpersonal problems, and suicide.

If the leaders of our community believe that false rumors are being spread then they should condemn that speech by intelligently responding to those false allegations, not trying to quell peoples' right to free speech. Do leaders of the community think that their constituents arenít smart enough to make up their own minds about abuse allegations? Is the answer to force people into silence?

Every single predator listed in the CrownHeightsWatch registry is a serial offender whose crimes have been independently corroborated by many victims or/and whose crimes are a matter of public record. There isnít a threat of a personal vendetta leading to a false accusation. These individuals are known pedophiles. No one disputes that. In fact, although the most recent man arrested is presumed innocent in a court of law, the DA obviously had probable cause to charge him. If someone is a known molester you donít need to wait for a conviction to inform and protect the community. No one is suggesting that pedophiles get locked up without their crimes being proven beyond a reasonable doubt but when it comes to protecting our children in public we donít take chances, especially when someone is a known molester.

Those claiming that child abuse awareness generates mass hysteria should look closely at the widely accepted figures that ď1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys will have experienced an episode of abuse while younger than 18 years.Ē (See National Center for Victims of Crime). The American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry has also concluded that much abuse goes unreported because children are afraid to disclose what happened, and the legal procedure for validating abuse is difficult. Do you really think that the issue is ďrumors, half-memoriesÖ [and]Ö miscommunicationsĒ or perhaps a lack of discussion and awareness within the community? Why is the Vaad fostering a climate where victims will be afraid to come forward?

Lastly, a suspectís family is as innocent as the victim. It is wrong to malign a suspectís family. Guilt by association is wrong BUT is it right to silence survivors and advocates for fear that a suspectís family member will feel stigmatized? Shouldnít we view a suspects family as innocent as anyone else while at the same time encourage survivors to speak out without fear of reprisal?

Bottom Line:
(1) Victims should be encouraged to come forward, without being discredited, disbelieved and hushed by the Vaad.

(2) Protecting the community by exposing the identities of known molesters is saving lives.

(3) We need to act in accordance with the Beis Dinís recent psak to report abuse to the government authorities.

(4) Expose the known offender. When we donít speak out and expose the offenders we are violating Halacha by standing idly by our neighborsí blood and putting a stumbling block in front of the blind.

Sincerely,
Crown Heights Watch


Most Read Most Comments
Bookmark and Share
Opinions and Comments
1
Ch'r
I thought CH watch was normal people these folcks are just trying to exploit a hot topic to get themselves a name!

The letter said nothing about going to the cops if you know something!!!

It was speaking to the CH Yenta who decides they know everything they don't!!!

I you know something say something, but if you don't, don't!!! That is what the letter said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(8/5/2011 6:07:45 PM)
2
And who may you be
Who are the people hiding behind the name Crownheightswatch.. At least the Vaad has names. If they believe in their ideas stand by it. Debate openly. Articles like this should not be printed in public media with out individual's names.
(8/5/2011 6:08:01 PM)
3
Crown Heights Watch?????
If you feel so strong about your views and that they are accurate write who you are, its east to rant and bring proofs, but a letter without a name is a pashkvil. I do 100% agree with what you're writing but without a name it seems like you yourself are scared or afraid of something. the same with the website that you have going. Who is behind it? May we share only besuros tovos.
(8/5/2011 6:09:42 PM)
4
THANK YOU CH WATCH
thank you ch watch. i just want to tell you that i was a victim of abuse, growing up, and the thing that hurts and affected me the most wasn't what was done to me, it was by the fact that it was done by some one who i looked up too, some one older then me, some one who was meant to care for and protect me. it was the betrayal that killed me. i dont want to go into the affects that this is had on my life, although i do want to say that i was slowly recovering and regaining back a 'normal' life. although... when i read that letter from the three vaad members / or should i say the three community leaders, i felt that same stab all over again. these are our leaders, they are meant to protect us, (the innocent ones). it really really hurt so much, to feel that neglect, betrayel and pain all over again. our leaders were concerned with the molester and his family. in other words; me, as a innocent young girl, i could have lead a normal life, i could have achieved and been successful, instead i was shut down by my abuser, and then our community leaders come ahead and basically tell me to go to hell, with their immense concern for the abuser. i have never felt so ashamed to be part of a frum community. i always felt that i was abused, but if ppl knew they would be outraged, mad and they would freak out, instead when finally finally a organization like ch watch did the unthinkable and took one of these animals finally off the streets, the community leaders came and attacked them for exposing these evil ppl, and from protecting future victims. shame on you zaki, fischel and yossi... i am embarrassed to be apart of your commuinty....
(8/5/2011 6:18:21 PM)
5
To the Vaad, From a concerned mother....
the underlying message of the letter that the vaad put of was protecting and simply concerned with the predator and the predators family... there was nooo concern for the victims... this is the first time that the vaad has ever come out with a letter on this topic, and it is also the first time that a predator has finally been exposed... this is after yrs and yrs of abuse, the letter from the vaad should really have been written to the victims, dont you think???? it should have been an apology for not protecting them, for not educating them and making our youth more aware, for not creating conseqences for the predator, so he would have mayb thought twice before abusing... it should have apologized for all these things.. and it should also apologize to the future victims, because the letter they come out with was simply saying to allow things to stay the way they were... with more concern for the predator then for the victim!!! with such leaders, and letters, we can now assume crown heights has no hope of change!!
I WANT TO SEE AN APOLOGY LETTER FROM THE VAAD TO THE VICTIMS!!
(8/5/2011 6:19:32 PM)
6
uh huh
If it isn't signed it's a pashkvil.
(8/5/2011 6:24:03 PM)
7
Who are these people?
Who are they and who has designated them. Is there a danger that if people are unidentified that they wield power that can be dangerous.

The idea is noble and should be implemented. By people who are willing to be identified and sanctioned by some valid authority. Otherwise a monster will be created.
(8/5/2011 6:31:29 PM)
8
thanks
Well said and thank you!
You are saving lives.
G-d bless you!
(8/5/2011 6:32:31 PM)
9
There is no connection
I myself was a target of molestation. However I was able to thwart the perpetrator.
It benefits no one by placing advertisements in a paper or website about an alledged offender. And the rabbonim never spoke to that effect.
How will you control blackmail if anyone can come up and identify any person he wishes?
(8/5/2011 6:52:39 PM)
10
excellent letter
Watching your children from possible molesters is crucial. And if a suspect ends up being innocent, I pity any one who maliciously caused a bad name on someone else. Hashem will take care of it.
(8/5/2011 6:53:48 PM)
11
self righteous individuals
No where in the council letter did it state or imply the communities silence was being called upon. Vigilante-ism and self righteousness, mixed with limited common sense and extremely poor reading comprehension are a potent mix that the letter was most likely intended for. Thank you to col for creating a debate where there is none.
(8/5/2011 6:54:12 PM)
12
who r u?
y is it such a secret who CH watch is? if u r sure what u r doing is right - & I am not saying that negatively - y shouldn't ur name be signed???????/
(8/5/2011 6:58:58 PM)
13
Mother
The recent letter by the Vaad, was not intended to have people not come forward. Yes, if you have a complaint you should go to the PROPER authorities. It was against the internet et al, being the judge, the jury, and the prosecutor in the case.
YOu have informed the whole world of who you think is a pedophile. Is that not enough? Do you have to publish every stupid comment that people think can be published on the internet - simply because they do not have to sign their names.
Be mature.
Be careful.
Post the story and leave it at that. Make some things 'Not Commentable".
(8/5/2011 7:03:48 PM)
14
exposition
Child molestation is pure horror and should be fully exposed. I think the Vaad Hakahal made that clear and did not try to express any hush hush. I do hav a concern : how do we prevent innocent people who have enemies, from being posted on the new website. Can someone please inform us if these names are first checked out for veracity?. Again, l00% agreement. Evil people who prey on innocent people, weather teachers, or
lay people or ANYONE, MUST be reported to the authorities immediately. Moshiach Now! and all the evil wil be erased
(8/5/2011 7:10:11 PM)
15
MOST PERTINENT!!
Every single predator listed in the CrownHeightsWatch registry is a serial offender whose crimes have been independently corroborated by many victims or/and whose crimes are a matter of public record. There isnít a threat of a personal vendetta leading to a false accusation. These individuals are known pedophiles.
(8/5/2011 7:12:09 PM)
16
great
smart and true.

we can't stand by while these people are in our community just running around doing what they want, knowing that they will be protected by the vaad.

if the vaad had any empathy they would agree with this letter
(8/5/2011 7:21:39 PM)
17
Meir
BS:D
Nice letter except they destroyed its message by not signing the letter (pashquil).They want these people exposed but can't expose themselves, makes sense?
(8/5/2011 7:29:34 PM)
18
who is ch watch
why is it that CH watch is able to set up a website and make evryone believe that all the names on their website are actually guilty of the crimes ??

I am a father and i am happy that there are people out there loking out for all of our children. But if the are other motives for this then we need to be careful before we accuse those people.
(8/5/2011 7:38:22 PM)
19
YAAKOV
BSD

All the vaad's letter said was that one should assume Keller's innocent until proven guilty, which is the basic rule of Pirkei Avos, ďdan lekaf z'chus.Ē It doesn't say that he shouldn't have been reported on or that we shouldn't report abusers to the police. It didn't say anything close to that. This is clear and obvious to anyone who read the letter.

Whoever wrote this letter is wasting his time and trying to create un-needed machloikes. In addition, he has difficulty comprehending what he reads.
(8/5/2011 7:38:52 PM)
20
ezzy
I live out-of-town and am not privy to Crown Heights politics.

However, the letter from the Community council does not state any of the things that this article alleges!

You cannot have lynching, you cannot have the law taken into vigilante hands. That is not progress, that is going backwards.

Victims must be taken seriously - molestation destroys the very fabric of an individuals soul and that of society. However, caution must be taken that anger does not turn to vengeance. Benefit of the doubt must be afforded to all. The truth will emerge, but maligning people publicly is not the route to take.

I think the letter from that Vaad was level headed and sensitive to the victims of abuse.
(8/5/2011 7:40:39 PM)
21
Just maybe what they did is the right thing
To #9 who wrote: "It benefits no one by placing advertisements in a paper or website about an alledged offender. "

1, If, the general public is unaware of the alleged predator who still has contact with potential victims - by publicizing their name, it has clear benefit by saving future children and teenagers lives from being ruined or put at risk.

2. Furthermore, sometimes it helps more victims to get courage to come forward.

3. Sometimes placing their name in public spaces is the last resort, when nothing was done previously to stop the predator from continuing their perverted activities. This includes shipping them to another country where they will find even more victims because no one knows their history.

If allegations are false, that is terrible to the person they are made against. However, even though I do not know who is behind Crown Heights watch, they substantiate all their claims - as they explain: "either the person is a serial offender whose crimes have been independently corroborated by many victims or/and whose crimes are a matter of public record. There isnít a threat of a personal vendetta leading to a false accusation. These individuals are known pedophiles."

It seems obvious to me that they are trying to protect young innocent children from harms way. They have courage to do what they do, and I, as a frum Chabad, mother of young children, highly applaud them and support them.

Maybe they do not share information on who they are, and post anonymously to protect themselves and their families against threats and attacks by those who cannot and will not face the truth. Or those who will try and put an end to what they do. Maybe they are worried people will not take them seriously if they don't come from well-known family or are relatively young. Who knows?

Just maybe they have good intentions. Maybe they are innocent, like the alleged predator is.

Maybe their goal is to keep the streets safe and protect your children, but that is not good enough for people who are more worried about other pressing matters.

Maybe for once support should be given where it is due and they should be commended for finally doing something about a longstanding problem.

Maybe then the world will be a better and safer place to bring up our children.

(8/6/2011 10:27:21 AM)
22
for those who cannot understand the reason for the above letter
The reason for the above letter is because the Vaad's letter was a kick in the face to those who suffered abuse by the alleged predator and to any victims who are too scared to speak up.

The letter above addresses the issue of the Vaad's letter encouraging people to keep silent on these matters and think that "innocent until proven guilty" applies in the cases of an alleged predator, even when numerous victims have come forward with their highly personal stories.

Even though the article may appear logical and level headed to many people - to a victim of abuse (and we don't really know how many there are out there because many don't come out for various reasons, including fear of people's reactions), it is very discouraging, invalidating and hurtful. Read comment #4 above.

Why was there no letter addressed to victims of abuse applauding them for having the courage to come forward, despite all the damnation and doubt they have to face from other members in the community who like to talk? Why was there no letter encouraging others to come forward to protect the community from more harm?

If people need to be reminded to treat the alleged predators family with respect and dignity, because they are victims themselves of this whole ordeal, then people should also need to be reminded with a similar letter to treat victims and their families with respect, even if they disagree with them coming out publicly and trying to put an end to a cruel cycle of abuse.
(8/6/2011 10:43:13 AM)
23
No need to talk about this anymore...
The man is arrested and therefore there is no need to talk about it any more. If he is convicted, then he will be in jail. If he is innocent, allow him and his family to move on.

The basic point is that there is no need to gossip about it. He's arrested, done, over.
(8/6/2011 2:11:02 PM)
24
Who are they?
I was and I am still in agreement with the Vaad's letter. The Beis Din signed its names (Rabbis Braun and Schwei), the Vaad signed their name, but those anonymous people from CH Watch didn't sign their name. The Beis Din and the Vaad made it clear that they ARE at the victims' sides and that they are not trying tpo protect abusers. But at the same time, we should give justice and police the chance to investigate quietly all the matter. What's wrong with that? I find it quite fair. What's the CH Watch's problem?
(8/6/2011 7:34:25 PM)
25
CH Watch is misunderstanding the Vaad's letter
I reread the vaad's letter and they didn't say the things they are accused to have said by CH Watch. I'm suspecting that CH Watch has its own agenda and is trying to get a name and a share of the cake. The Vaad's letter was very well written, balanced and sensitive, not only for the victims but alos for the abuser's family, and it came to remind us that untill a judgment is not issued, we shouldn't take things into our own hands and not fall into paranoai. It said NOTHING about not reporting child abuses.

CH Watch, why are you misleading the community? The Vaad and the Beis Din did a remarkable work, and we should give them credit for that.

By the way, I'm still waiting for Rabbi Osdoba's reaction.
(8/6/2011 7:40:32 PM)
26
In short
I think we can all agree that the victims must be encouraged to speak up, but that people who are not a party to the matter and have no way of determining the truthfulness of either side should stay out of it.
(8/6/2011 10:03:05 PM)
27
Montreal
I wonder if this problem exists in Montreal.
I am new to the community and have a son going into Yeshiva. This whole story makes me so nervous for my little boy. Does anyone know of any cases of abuse or molsetation in Montreal Lubav Community?
(8/6/2011 10:19:40 PM)
28
Thank you
Thank you for speaking up.
There are molestors that have been protected by the community. There is no gain.... other children are at risk. By protecting molestors one is putting their own relatives at risk.
(8/6/2011 11:10:14 PM)
29
Apology
The vaad needs to send out an apology letter! It does not matter who is in charge of crownheightswatch or the fact they did not sign this letter by name; this letter is right. The letter the vaad sent out showed once again that our community will stand up for their own. Honestly, their letter should have FIRST AND FOREMOST showed compassion for the victims but instead was subtly trying to discredit them! as long as the vaad, and people who are more concerned about who wrote this letter keep pushing the important matter aside, we will continue to have a problem in our community, and until it is their child they will continue to show no respect for ours
(8/6/2011 11:15:10 PM)
30
to 27
montreal is above humanity?
(8/6/2011 11:20:03 PM)
31
what is wrong with us!!
When a lubavitcher is convicted we all stand up for them. when will we start thinking with our heads? people have faults, even yiden! just look at what happened with one of the known predators! the judge even said that we made him into the victim instead of focusing on the real victims. WHEN WILL THIS STUPIDITY END AND WE STOP MAKING A BIGGER MOCKERY OF OURSELVES?
(8/6/2011 11:26:36 PM)
32
Boruch N. Hoffinger BS"D
#2 I heard it 'Shomrim.'
They're doing a wonderful job.
Bring back flogging. Bood and peeling skin might do these scoundrels very well!
If this society doesn't protect children we have no right to exist.
(8/6/2011 11:32:42 PM)
33
I am so HAPPY CHWatch wrote their letter!!!!
They truly have now done what is necessary...

EXPOSING themselves and their buffoonery.

They are not really interested in helping children, but empowering themselves to extort and blackmail others.

I vote to BOYCOTT (I'm talking about their sponsors!)
(8/6/2011 11:36:22 PM)
34
I agree
I agree with 1,2,9
(8/6/2011 11:39:57 PM)
35
continue finding solutions
This is the beginning of finding solutions. The unfortunate truth that abuse exists in our communities and that it needs to be addressed is the main issue, The fact is we need to address this and root it out, help the victims, explore community responses for awareness, prevention, ways to protect our families and send a clear message that this is unacceptable to allow this fear and lack of morality to continue, PLEASE continue working on real solutions !! Open your eyes people thats how we will bring true redemption !!
(8/7/2011 12:05:37 AM)
36
mothers
great! there is finally awarness in our community! what a great way to have people talk about this subject!
(8/7/2011 12:27:14 AM)
37
to #9
If you were truly a "target of molestation," how could you post something so absurd. Knowing someone who was molested, I do not believe that ANYONE EVER put in that situation would say NOT to advertise alleged offenders...
(8/7/2011 12:27:39 AM)
38
huh? i dont get this...
they didnt write not to advertise, they just warned not to publicize until its known for sure, since it destroys their life...and unfortunately chwatch is NOT being so careful, relying on the corrupted us system instead...
(8/7/2011 1:10:40 AM)
39
Some pointers
Some pointers from the vaadís letter to me it looked like it was being pointed all at CHW.

But, we are told to suspend judgment until a full investigation and fair process is conducted, because without a fair process we do not know what really happened. Before the conclusion of a fair process, we can be relying on rumors, half-memories, miscommunications, and (sometimes) even intentional deceit.

An alleged perpetrator may be guilty, but he also may be innocent. The possibility of his innocence is (even if you think small, still) very real. If he is guilty Ė he will be punished. But, in the event that a suspect is not guilty, does anyone want to be responsible for ruining the life of an innocent man?

In addition, a good deal of speculation and chatter has begun to circulate about members of the community that are based on speculation that may not be backed up by actual evidence.

We add nothing positive by adding fuel to the fire and scream and shout and post all over the internet about this. All that achieves is to hurt innocent family members of the accused.

Until then, letís be patient and show sympathy for the family. Being part of the rumor mill that generates and passes half-truths will do very real, lasting and deep damage to innocent people here. Letís prevent that.

they are basically saying that CHW does not have there stories right, and they are starting a rumor mill to hurt people, and the suspect might be not guilty and they will be responsible for it, and they hurting the family members by posting it online. ectÖ.. fishel,zaki were is your letter supporting the victims to come forward? Why havenít we seen anything from you guys yet??
(8/7/2011 1:38:39 AM)
40
Just maybe what they did is the right thing
1, If, the general public is unaware of the alleged predator who still has contact with potential victims - by publicizing their name, it has clear benefit by saving future children and teenagers lives from being ruined or put at risk.

2. Furthermore, sometimes it helps more victims to get courage to come forward.

3. Sometimes placing their name in public spaces is the last resort, when nothing was done previously to stop the predator from continuing their perverted activities. This includes shipping them to another country where they will find even more victims because no one knows their history.

If allegations are false, that is terrible to the person they are made against. However, even though I do not know who is behind Crown Heights watch, they substantiate all their claims - as they explain: "either the person is a serial offender whose crimes have been independently corroborated by many victims or/and whose crimes are a matter of public record. There isnít a threat of a personal vendetta leading to a false accusation. These individuals are known pedophiles."

It seems obvious to me that they are trying to protect young innocent children from harms way. They have courage to do what they do, and I, as a frum Chabad, mother of young children, highly applaud them and support them.

Maybe they do not share information on who they are, and post anonymously to protect themselves and their families against threats and attacks by those who cannot and will not face the truth. Or those who will try and put an end to what they do. Maybe they are worried people will not take them seriously if they don't come from well-known family or are relatively young. Who knows?

Just maybe they have good intentions. Maybe they are innocent, like the alleged predator is.

Maybe their goal is to keep the streets safe and protect your children, but that is not good enough for people who are more worried about other pressing matters.

Maybe for once support should be given where it is due and they should be commended for finally doing something about a longstanding problem.

Maybe then the world will be a better and safer place to bring up our children.
(8/7/2011 2:02:34 AM)
41
remaining anonymous
There have been a number of instances where individuals
(and their families) who exposed predators have been threatened both physicality and verbally.In one instance one of these whistle blowers was nearly killed by bullet shots and this all within frum communities.This,I would assume is the reason for the anonymity of those behind the CH community watch



(8/7/2011 2:45:02 AM)
42
# 40
you write that CHW substantiates there claims. I have yet to see from all what they have put up on their site to be substantiated except one (who was arrested and released on bail). as i see it, thay are hidding behind a blind wall without a name because just that reason that don't have any proof or even better yet they have an agenda to take revenge in some people and will except FALSE stories, without checking them to see if it true at all.
(8/7/2011 2:49:30 AM)
43
thank you 25
your comment is a breathe of fresh air
(8/7/2011 3:52:46 AM)
44
to #27
watch your son, talk to your son, they exist EVERYWHERE in the frum communities, he could be a "BIG RABBI" or just the janitor, or just some older boys in yeshiva taking advantage of a younger boy,

people when will you wake up and admit that the frum cummunities are infested with them, maybe you can reffer to a case in kfar chabad where a assistant kinder garden teacher has molested childern some as young as 3 years old and from personal knowledge most of them are in therapy and will be for many years to come, unlike here the mayor of kfar chabad has not stood by in silence and made sure the molester is in prison for many years,


hopefully most of you do not know what the effect this has on a child, but the ones that unfourtunatly know i am sure are not the ones trying to discredit that website , if you dont like the mesage dont kill the messenger,

and one more thing, it would be nice if the family doctors of this community would maybe speak up on the issue which i am sure they know to well about and tell the real story,
(8/7/2011 5:16:39 AM)
45
fishel, zaki?????/
fishel,zaki were is your letter supporting the victims to come forward? Why havenít we seen anything from you guys yet??
(8/7/2011 10:22:03 AM)
46
WARNING
The content of CrownHeightsWatch's website is highly innapropriate. While I agree that victims should speak out, I disagree with the method used by CHWatch. It's too raw.

By the way, the Vaad' letter was GREAT and SENSITIVE for EVERY PARTY involved and the accusations of CHWatch are baseless as the Vaad's letter does not contain what CHWatch are accusing it to contain.
(8/7/2011 10:24:37 AM)
47
Mother of victim
Bs"D The public needs to be aware of what is happening. The victims have all been in hiding because of fear or shame. When the victims hear that a predator has been exposed, they feel courage to open up and tell their stories of abuse. To equate the victims of abuse with families of a predator - calling the families "victims" is to hush-hush the victims who have come forward and hush-hush any victims who may be willing to come forward. Yes the families need to be treated with respect. However, the victims need to be the encouraged and encouraged and encouraged, and then encouraged again, to come out with their stories. The predators rob the victims of their youth, of their self-esteem, of their precious innocence. The Vaad HaKohol should have written a great deal in support of the victims. Yes, we are in the 9 days. We have to be careful of the Positive Commandments as well as the Negative Commandments. The Jewish community - the Jewish world - needs to be aware of everything that is updated on the issue of the predators, and the Jewish community and the Jewish world needs to be updated on the help and services available to the victims of the abuse. Hashem Yeracheim.
(8/7/2011 2:28:02 PM)
48
cornerstone of our modern democracy, Jewish law
THE WRITERS HAVE EXPOSED THEIR VEIWS, BY PLACING MODERN DEMOCRACY BEFORE TORAHS ETHICS.
its no suprise they feel nothing for severe sin of loshon horah and its efects
(8/7/2011 2:35:45 PM)
49
To #48
Furthermore, when we know information that could save people from being hurt, all rules of lashon harah and rechilus are out the window and to NOT speak is a grave sin of do not stand idly by your brother's blood. - Leviticus 19:16.
(8/7/2011 7:19:11 PM)
50
Girls get hurt too!!
All the focus seems to be on men attacking boys. I am a young women who was molested by a lady teacher in high school. It started with some very explicit talk and ended with many times of intimate touch under the clothes. I felt ashamed and felt guilty, thinking that I did something wrong by allowing it and even getting pleasure from it. I now know better - that I was molested, and I know first hand that anyone can be a molester, even the kind older married lady teacher! It's not just boys who are victims and the molesters are not just men!!


(8/7/2011 8:55:30 PM)
51
at least pretend your grown up, crown heights
the letter was anonymous? STOP NIT PICKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so immature, to read a letter filled with important content and say, well too bad it was anonymous....I'm highly disappointed.
(8/7/2011 10:25:29 PM)
52
consider this
The more terrible you try to present the act of child abuse, the more terrible the consequences of someone being falsely accused.
(8/7/2011 10:29:57 PM)
53
be careful
I ain't taking sides in the CHW and Vaad letter-writing, but I want y'all to know that there's a wickedly wild swing going on in this pendulum of social awareness and reaction. First we think all is well under the canopy of torah people. then we get hit in the face by horrific incidents. then we all become judges and experts. it doesn't wortk that way. if you hear about an incident you rarely, if ever, hear it from the victim. and there are many stories of people getting revenge on someone by spreading false rumors, which once out cannot be erased.
this matter is not as simple as outing perpetrators. the incidents happen in private. what, if anything happened is usually one person against another and usually a minor and an adult. a very tricky situation. to unravel and confirm and either protect the innocent and punish the fabricator or expose and punish the victim is a rarely a clean and cut job. few are those knowledgable and deep enough to do things justly. many of those driven to "uncover truths" are biased by other issues. I don't doubt most good people want perpetrators outed and punished. it is separaing the truth from lies that is the tough part, and while doing so keeping the wraps on the story. there is no easy answer.

my point:

be very careful about what you express when mentioning a person's name or identifying factors. there may be some sinners among us who continue to victimize others. but shooting anyone because they moved is not the solution and just creates another societal problem.

I do agree that any entity which presents itself as unbiased and trustworthy be comprised of a mutli-faceted board with names. there's no such thing as anonymity of judges. if you want to be respected in the public arena you need to go public. that's the cost. who and what exactly are you afraid of?
(8/7/2011 11:40:25 PM)
54
LIBEL
The most likely reason Crown Heights Watch has not listed it's members or leaders is for the real concern that they could be hit with a libel lawsuit. Without a solid LEGAL case against all the alleged perpetrators, they run a risk of a lawsuit brought against them. I think the public service they are providing is most necessary and I don't think they need to endanger themselves in the process. That is, as long as the identified perpetrators are definitely perpetrators and there is not a scintilla of doubt.
(8/8/2011 1:14:04 AM)
55
PASHKVIL
By definition, this letter is a PASHKVILL. There is no names, no one to take responsibility for it.

The vaad clearly said to go to the proper authorities with all claims of molestation! What do you want from them?

I was initially happy at the establishment of CHW but are they responsible people? Are they looking to exploit a situation to further their personal goals and to gain power?
(8/8/2011 8:47:56 AM)
56
What difference does it make?
In the end, what difference does it make if someone did or did not sign it? The message is the same, and the same people read it that would have read a signed letter. So why don't you just take the message and think about its meaning?
(8/8/2011 9:47:11 AM)
57
To #50 Girls get hurt too
Be strong and get help. You sound great!
(8/8/2011 11:58:35 AM)
58
By definition, this letter is a PASHKVILL.????
Lets stop with the self righteous platitudes and stop burying our heads in the sand..Experience has shown that those have pursued or attempted to pursue a rigorous, proactive effort to reveal the names of these perverts have been harassed and in some cases have been physically attacked.They and their families have been threatened with dire consequences regarding shidduchim for their children, ostracism etc. from their frum communities if they continue to pursue in their efforts to get rid of these perverts.Is it any wonder then, that the author(s) of this so called "pashkvil" have not signed their letter?
(8/8/2011 2:44:58 PM)
59
NO NEED TO DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WROTE THE LETTER
Anonymity is very good sometimes. Attacking the author of the letter is not. The person seeks to prevent evil. Bringing exposure can nip the problem in the bud. The accusations of those who demand to know who wrote the letter are inherently evil. Why don't you just accept the motives inside the letter and try to protect innocent people instead of protecting criminal? Why do you want to know who wrote it] so that you can go after them and stop what they are doing?? What's your motive? It obviously is NOT for the victim. The anonymity here is powerful and good. Do you want to keep perversion alive and well and thriving while people get molested and crimes get done (what goes around comes around - and it will come around to YOU)? Or do you want to stop crimes and injustice? WAY TO GO CROWN HEIGHTS WATCH!! MAY YOU DO MUCH MORE GOOD ALSO!!!
(8/9/2011 5:11:15 AM)
60
this is the right way
great someone here has mentshlachkite!!!!!!!! ohalei torah chai!!!!!!!!!
(8/10/2011 4:46:23 PM)
61
Molested in CH in the 1970's
I was a student at Bais Rivkah in the 1970's and was sent to see a physician for abdominal pain. The physician molested me. When I reported this to the administration at the school, I was told to keep my mouth shut, I shouldn't say things like that, the physician is a religious man, he would never do such a thing. But he did, and it hurt physically and emotionally. I believe he still practices in Brooklyn. I pity the young women (and possibly young men) who may have been and may still be being molested by this man. It is time for a change, believe what the children tell you, check it out, let your children know that they are the most important thing in your life. Had someone checked me out, they would have seen that the molestation was true.
(8/19/2011 3:31:46 AM)
What's Your Opinion? Post a Comment
Title:

Your Comment:


Comments must be approved before being published. Thank You!

Make COLiveģ your homepage | Contact Us
© 2014 COLLIVE.com