By COLlive reporter
The goal of a restoring order to the communal leadership of the Crown Heights Chassidic neighborhood has received another setback Wednesday.
Three Brooklyn rabbis have released a restraining order (“ikul”) against Rabbi Yossi Braun‘s position as the third member of the Crown Heights Bais Din to which he was elected in September 2010.
Rabbi Chaim Krauss, Rabbi Yaakov Goldstein and Rabbi Naftali Chaim Stalmen ordered the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council (Vaad Hakohol-CHJCC) not to employ Rabbi Braun until further notice.
Rabbi Krauss is the Morah D’asra of the Bais Yisroel community of Kensington, Av Beis Din Ohel Chaim of Brooklyn and a Dayan of Agudas Harabbanim Of USA and Canada. In 1998 he signed a “siruv” against Rabbi Yehuda Kalman Marlow OBM and Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba.
Today’s “ikul” ruling, written on Rabbi Krauss’ stationary and signed by the 3 rabbis, called on the Vaad Hakohol not to hold an inauguration ceremony although one was just held last month.
It also demands not to sign a contract although one was already signed by Vaad Hakohol members Fishel Brownstein and Yossi Hackner (without the signature of Chairman Zaki Tamir, complying with an order by Badatz member Rabbi Osdoba).
The 3 rabbis also stated that they were not questioning the ruling of Monsey Dayan Rabbi Avrohom Rosenberg who okayed Rabbi Braun’s election amid doubts about the latter’s credentials.
“The date for a din Torah will be set in the coming days,” they wrote. “More importantly is that for now, no action should be made in appointing Rabbi Braun.”
COLlive.com has reached Rabbi Krauss who verified the authenticity of the ruling and said it was sent to the Vaad Hakohol.
Asked who presented them with the case and asked for the suspension, Rabbi Krauss said “the Bais Din does not discuss such things over the phone.”
The COLlive.com reporter stated that such information should be made public to the residents of Crown Heights.
Rabbi Krauss replied with a “good night” and hung up the phone.
Since Rabbi Braun’s election, supporters of his opponent have questioned the validity of his smicha rabbinical ordination and his experience as a posek in halacha.
It is not clear yet whether these rabbonim have jurisdiction on the matter and if the Vaad Hakohol will comply.
UPDATE (2/03/2011 4:03 PM): Zaki Tamir released the following statement:
The Vaad Hakohol has not yet established an official position with regards to the ikul issued by the Beis Din of Rabbi Chaim Kraus, shlita.
The Vaad will be meeting together as soon as possible to review the authority and the jurisdiction of the ikul, its parameters and its practical repercussions, if any.
The Vaad Hakohol will form its position after consultations with the Beis Din zabl”o, the Beis Din of Rabbi Kraus, shlita, and the Badatz of Crown Heights.
I believe that it’s the right of the people of Crown Heights to know where we stand on this issue, and I will report out position as soon as I can do so responsibly.
The Vaad Hakohol will assume a position which will uphold halachah and the interests and well-being of the Rebbe’s shechunah.
114 well said
rabbi Braun is another human being, a jew. why is he being trated this way? if he has already been elcetd in to bais din, obviusly he is qualified! stop treating ur fellow jew in this manner!
We need Moshiach not shtus
all the yeshivos and schools in crown heights may as well close. There is no point in them teaching what they are because after all- what are the messages the students get?They get messages like “rabbonim mean nothing” “a zabla has no effect” How do i know this? I know thi sbecause thisis the way I, and many of my peers feel. I am young High School girl who is told that i am the one whop has the power of the next generation. Now after all i do not come from any prominent family in crown heights who is… Read more »
does anyone think, that the BD will convene with Rabbi Yosef Braun participating.
I think there is one chance in a million if that.
How can it be that a bais din like this interferes in the rulings of the Bais Din of Rabbi Rosenberg which all parties are already going to. All the parties already agreed to go to Rabbi Rosenbergs Bais Din and abide by its rulings and this is where any discrepencies should be addressed as they have been such as Rav Brauns smicha from the Noteh Gavriel (Rav Gavriel Tzinner) which was resolved. How can they possibly do such a thing unless they are completely unaware? But in their own letter they do acknowledge that Rav Rosenberg is in charge.… Read more »
here i am, a young high school girl LAUGHING at what is going on. I am not going to take sides, because that won’t help. But think about it. I spend 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, where they try and “implement” emes in me. They try and teach me what is right. They try and give me an appreciation for torah, the rabbonim, the rebbe, they try and make us strong woman for tomorrow, v’chulu… Then, i see what i have to be a strong mother, wife, and person later on for. For the “shtus” for everything… Read more »
I am far from being a fan of Rabbi kantor.BUT he wrote a very logical and well thought out post. WHY ARE THE PRO BRAUN PEOPLE SO UP TIGHT? LETS GET IT RIGHT NOW INSTEAD OF TREADING MURKY WATERS FOR THE NEXT 30 – 40 YEARS HAVING A ROV WE NO DARN THING ABOUT LET ALONE IF HE HAS SMICHA AND IF HE DOES THAT IS NOT FORGED.
i agree with # 1,3,5,8,6,14.16,17,39,64,79,82,84,86
And same applys to Rabbi Osdoba and Segal
Anyone who thinks it will be better to dissolve our beis din or to get rid of Rabbi Braun is simply fooling themselves. The Zablo has spoken, and the people have spoken. If most people didn’t want him, he would not have been elected. Same for the Vaad Hakahal. That’s the point of elections. Also there’s something called a statute of limitations. If you had a problem with the psak of the Zabla, why didn’t you come forward sooner? On the brighter side, it is clear that as weak as our beis din is, there are other batei din that… Read more »
I am sure that everyone realizes that this “ikul” is a Purim Torah that was sent out for Rosh Chodesh Adar. Although we are supposed to be marbeh b’simcha in Adar , the sad part is that this Beis Din (sic) and the instigators behind it practice “litzanus” a whole year round. For better or for worse the terms of a Zabla are very clear cut and negate any attempted cirumvention of it’s rulings. We should all realize that one side always walks away from a Din Torah disgruntled, and keep that in mind when reading all these diartibes against… Read more »
this is crazy, some immature people constantly stirring machlokes. enough!!!!!!!! and to involve other rabbis ??????
show some ahavas yisrael, being a mentch is the most important thing, a decision was made, by the community and now we move on.
Since many people have stated that they would not have voted for Rabbi Braun knowing what they know now, the whole election was a Me’kach Ta’us. Therefore, there should be new elections called for the third Rav.
I just thought to point out that this Rabbi Krauss is also a so called Rabbinic Advisor to Lower East Side in Orlando, FL a restaurant not under a proper Hashgocho and fights the Rebbe’s shluchim in the area (http://www.kosherorlando.com/Information/About_Us.htm).
The head of Agudas Harabonim of USA actually contacted one of the shluchim to let them know that Rabbi Krauss is in no way part of their organization and fraudulently uses this title because he once sat on a case with them years ago.
Could you please elaborate which Siman in Shulchon Aruch are you talking about or wich Mechaber Rama Shach or Semeh in Choshen Mispat or
Maybe Yoreh Deah Shach or Taz Vechulu
You Quote
“Anyone who says that once a Bais Din has paskend “Torah says” “Torah commands”, is simply an amhaaretz and would do better opening up an “artscroll type” Choshen Mishpat, that venting on blogs. (The original Shulchan Aruch is a bit beyond their range, methinks.)”
Talmid Ani velilmod ani Tzorich
Nachman Sanowicz
this is a non sense demand bcs even if they do he has other demands. the truth is that if rabbi rosenberg wrote in the name of the beis din and no one came forward saying its a daas yochid and its not in the name of the beis din its 100% in the name of the beis din, shtiko kehoydoh, its the other way around. rabbi osdoba has to prove there is no roiv bd. he has the issue, kol zman he cant prove there is no roiv the psak is valid and he must listen.
It is perhaps the strangest of developments yet in this prolonged Rabbonim saga. Yesterday, three non-Chabad rabbis from a Boro Park Beis Din issued a restraining order against the Vaad Hakohol’s further progress in installing the newly elected Rabbi Yossi Braun as third rov in Crown Heights. Exactly who lobbied to the three distinguished rabbis is unknown, as the leader of the panel, Rabbi Chaim Kraus has refused to comment. Another detail that remains a mystery is what warranted these rabbis to give their opinion on a community that never sought their arbitration. Without too great a memory, one can… Read more »
Who leaked private letters of Rabbi Rosenberg to Rabbi Osdobo designated as “classified = secret documents”?
where is the honesty and integrity? isn’t that the crux of Rabbo O’s complaints against the new Rov?
For all those who claim that that case of interference is not different from the “interference” of the Zabla Beis Din, it is important to note that, yes, there is a difference. The Zabla Beis Din of HaRav Rosenberg Shlita was consulted by both parties, while this time, that Beis Din from another neighborhood was not consulted for the arbitration. So they are strangers who don’t have a word on the matter. Moreover, it was stipulated in the contract that no other Beis Din could intervene on the matter.
To #62 above,
Brilliant, The quote from the Rebbe is so to the point! A must hear for everyone involved!!
The Rebbe writes that a zabla is ratzon haelyon. What are we teaching the next generation ?.
Rabi Krauss is WRONG. The Vaad HaKohol of the time signed the Shtar Birurim as the chosen leaders of the Kehilla. As such, they bound the themselves AND all its members to the terms of the Shtar (as it affects community affairs), including to accept the Psac and not to go to another Beis Din on these issues. Mi Mo Nafshack (either way), if these “new” plaintiffs are members of the community, they are bound by the Psac of Rabbi Rosenberg’s Zabla Beis Din, and the Shtar Birurim, and prohibited to petition Rabbi Krauss’ Beis Din, or if they are… Read more »
That’s the truth, and totally rational. I wonder how many people read it fully and understood your logic. Most of the rabble-rousers don’t want to hear the truth, and probably don’t understand the real issues. Crown Heights, wake up! You are being brain-washed by people with a political agenda and not by truth and halacha. It is time to elect a rav who has a PROVEN TRACK RECORD of being a role model of chassidus, halacha. The elections were a big mistake- smartly orchestrated by a few people with an agenda. IT was NOT to bring sholom and achdus. The… Read more »
the two rabonim agreed to listen to rabbu rosenberg on the fight they had. but here the issu is a smicha. who is rosenberg to paskin more then any any any rov in n/y/
To issuing a restraining order obtained by an anonymous party? Rabbi’s Krauss, Goldstein & Stalman are making a farce of themselves. Even though I personally thought Rabbi Rosenberg’s psak was flawed, the simple fact is that an overwhelming majority of the community accepted it, by participating in the two elections mandated by it. (And while I wrote a protest on my ballot, I doubt there was anyone else who did so – definitely not a substantial number of people – or we would hear about it). If it was so decided that the Vaad Hakohol and third Rabbi be established,… Read more »
Both parties have agreed long ago, and signed “And it was clearly agreed upon that no Beis Din in the world can annul nor alter the Psak Din even if it is their belief that the Beis Din erred.”
This bais din has no jurisdiction over the ruling, neither the vaad hakahal.
By recognizing that someone has the capability to Pasken Halacha you have in essence given him Smicha
Rabbi Tzinner himself can clarify that for you.
Yes your right, that was not why he gave him a Smicha document. Though that is irrelevant, for what in essence is Smicha?
Thank You for saying it the way it is!!!!!
Does Rabbi Yosef Braun have an authentic Smicha from a time prior to the election process of the CHBD. I suspect that if he did we would not be witnessing this debate which is causing an enormous Chilul Lubavitch. I have seen the document from Rav Gavriel Tzinner, it is not a Smichah, it is an approbation as to erudition from Yosef Braun it does not confer any Rabbinc Ordination. Please prove me incorrect by asking Rav Rosenberg to publicize the authenticated Smicha as soon as possible, meaning immediately. If such is not forthcoming let the lies cease. Then a… Read more »
Ir shpilt zich duh mit fayer.
Hut rachmones oif ayereh Mishpoches.
This “ikul” is worthless, meaningless. Like serving papers without an index number or without a plaintiff. If they dont want to divulge who the toiveah is, they can stick it. In any event, you can’t ask for an ikul post facto. There was a Hachtorah, the contract was signed, he served in the capacity as Rav which makes him a muchzak. The handwritten P.S. on the bottom of the letter is prejudicial to Rabbi Braun which invalidates the whole “ikul”. The issue mentioned in the PS was dealt withg by the bais din of zablo and there is no possibility… Read more »
An Ikul is to prevent a specific action in the FUTURE.
I don’t believe any action needs to be taken at this point by the vaad hakohol. the elections are over. the hachtara was already held.
GAME OVER. the vaad hakohol has NO power/jurisdiction over the Crown Heights Beis Din. aderaba, they are subject to the rulings of the Beis Din
1. the Yikul states that “a request came in front of us” – A request from WHO? 2. also states that the request is from individuales that did not sign the shtar beirurin and are not binded by the psak – Did they come to VOTE? If they did they accepted the rulling of the bais din that paskened to make elections. They came they signed their names and voted. So you hooked to it. 3. The so called yikul is on the members of the vaad hakohol that was elected by an election rulled by the psak of the… Read more »
The Alter aRebbe was prepared to give up 50,000 chassidim for Emes, not for such narishkeitn
we do not need a rav. most CH ask sheiles to rabbonim out of the neighborhood and we all know why. what do we need another rav (read problem)? leave well enough alone. peace? that is not going to happen. can’t R braun see that he has only added to the fight and will never bring peace. real people will not ask him real sheiles anyway so why do we need him. a rav is a chosheve yid, yiras shomaim, learned, experienced, knowledgeable, interested in the welfare of his community, respected by at least most people.
Reib Levy Itschak of Berdichiev said on the Rabbanim the night of Seder Pessach on the memera :” VeHakadosh Baruch Hu Yatsilenu miyadam”, G-d will alsosave us from their hands, (us and our children), now go back to the Seder Hayom…to learn, to work, to be productive, as for the others ‘velassarissim Yad Va”Shame”‘.
The “Shaty-vearev” has no bounding with Holiness even if is name is life, it is only faking the kedushah.
Ich ken em,
The Ikul states, that since “the people that asked for the ikul did not signed for the zabla. Meaning that although the vaad hakohol did agree, and rabbi’s scewei and ozdaba agreed, there are people in the community that are unhappy, and they the people did not sign. Question now is, when the vaad hakohol signs a contract is that binding to the community (as if the community signed or could individuals come along and say… “We are not bound”. If that is the case, I guess there is no power to a community, and before anything is done you… Read more »
Hashem is crying Ad Mosai to us!
SHOW US JUSTICE ALREADY… How can he do these things to such great Rabbonim (R’ Marlow, R’ Braun..)???
i think by now most lubavichers have realized that all these arguments-pro braun etc. are shtusim;as the arguments about meshichist-anti etc.;meanwhile we’re losing unzereh kinder by the day…the standard of all these “mizrachi/chabad’niker and young israel of lubavitch shuls and anash is poshut sad….. bichlolus the only way forward is through ahas yisroel-leaders have to come together,create a task force,a think tank etc. on how do will still connect all the shtiblich and opposing strands in the k’hila? THAT is the question.EVERYONE in anash should feel a kinship toward another from anash.braun or no braun will not make one difference… Read more »
The Vaad Hakohol CANNOT listen to this “ikul”. If they choose not to follow Rabbi Rosenberg’s Beis Din’s Psak Din then they automatically – retroactively – disqualify themselves from being members of the Vaad.
The old Vaad will be back in. [the only reason they are the curent Vaad, is because of the Psak Din of the Zabl”o. Remove that, and were back to square one r”l]
Answer to #80
#80 asks:
isnt this a bit to late? Didnt we all agree on a peace?
ANSWER:
The machlokes machers are the grandchildren of Korach and will have the sem sof like Korach V’Adoso
Contract, no contract, ikul, no ikul, zablah, no zablah… anything that can get 100 comments on COL in no time shows that there will not be peace in the community unless really resolved. The problem now is that it will not be resolved because even if the truth comes out that R’ Braun had no shmicha or that he did there will always be a side that will say not true. Good luck and no worries since this is only a one generation thing, since the next generation is SO turned off and will not care or respect anything to… Read more »
once second: the same people whe were waging a bitter war against the C.H. Badat’z for over 20 years, using every means to try and destroy the whole institution, they got these 3 rabbonim to put the Badat’z in “siruv”.
sudenly, these very same people are fighting FOR the Badat’z, FOR Rabbi Osdobo and get the very same “rabbonim” involved. is this serious?
It seems like their agenda NEVER changed. their ultimate goal is to Chas Vesholom DESTROY THE BEIS DIN.
1) for those saying these rabbonim are a outsider? rabbi rosenberg is a outsider and came out thinking he knows better then the rebbe! 2) rabbi osdobo was brave enough to sign for the first din torah lets see how brave rabbi shvei is to come and sign the letter that he will listen to whatever they say 3)if you want to look at someones past look at r’ brauns past he made machlokos in sydney (not sure? pick up the phone and call any of the rebbes shluchim in sydney) 4) to # 73 it says b”h on the… Read more »
Turn the page, move on. Don’t you understand that we are all FED UP of all this? Pro-Braun or Anti-Braun, all CH want to turn the page and restore peace in the Shchruna. I want to admit that I was unsure about Rabbi Braun. But since his corronation has passed, you can feel in all CH an atmosphere of peace upon CH from all sides. So please, leave us alone, and give peace a chance. A foreign Beis Din doesn’t have the right to interfere in that matter. It was clearly stated in the contract and signed by Rabbis Osdoba… Read more »
Rabbi Krauss was never involved in Siruv against Rabbis Marlow and Osdoba..the names the was Rabbis Ginzburg and Ralbag.
The lead signatory of the ‘Ikul’, R’ Chaim Krauss, has gained infamy in Crown Heights for his involvement in the shameful ‘Siruv’ placed on the Crown Heights Beis Din in 1998, one of whose members was Rabbi Osdoba.
look at the original arbitration agreement signed by Rabbi Osdoba and Rabbi Schwei which clearly stipulates what is to be done in such a scenario.
It reads: “And it was clearly agreed upon that no Beis Din in the world can annul nor alter the Psak Din even if it is their belief that the Beis Din erred.”
My dear friends shlit”a To all of you who are wondering who this new Beis-Din is and how “outsiders” have the “chutzpah” to mix in here…. I just want to give you some food-for-thought: Who do you think got us into this rotten mess if not for an absolute outsider? If you haven’t seen until now what kind of outsider “Rabbi” Rosenberg is than nothing will show you what & who are outsiders… Outsiders got us into this deepdddd.. and it’s going to take outsiders to get us out of IT!!!?? Sooo Wake up and smell the coffee…. May we… Read more »
Unless there is new information, I cannot respect this, no matter who has initiated it.
I dont think that they should have ‘solved’ these problems this way. anyone could guess that there would be a problem when one side ‘lost’ so why didnt they find a rav neutral to both sides?
this isnt rabbi bogomilsky, he isnt looking to fight for this job at all, on the other hand rabbi braun asked for the job
On this issue of an ikul alone, one theoretical question in Halacha: What is a baal din supposed to do, in a case where the bais din (or Av Beis Din) ignores evidence, does not answer questions about evidence, and you are certain he shows bias? Fall koyre’im before them and accept? Now another question on a lifetime position: One of the fundamental differences between a secular court and Torah law, is that secular law is all about settling a case (and the judge clearing his desk for a golf weekend). The Din Torah is about finding out the truth.… Read more »
Every clown feels like giving his own 2 cents. That’s what twitter was made for
didnt we all agree on a peace?
this is the same “Rov” that put Rabbi Marlow O.B.M. and YBLCH”T Rabbi Osdoba himself in SIRUV!
just to show you the credibility of this individual
the community expects you to stand up and say Enough is enough! we had a fair din torah and fair elections we have a new Rov. period!
Yes R’ Bogomilsky got his friends from Kensingston to issue the Siruv on R’ Osdoba and R’ Marlow and now he goes back to them again hoping to get himself elected in place of R’ Braun
How pathetic!
Theoretically, if the Vaad Hakohol does not comply with the Psak Din of the communal Zablo of Rabbi Rosenberg, then their own election to the office would be void [since the elections were held on the order of the Zablo], and the previous vaad would still be in power.
At that point, will the old/current vaad continue will all of the subpoenas? (which Moshe Rubashkin, Rabbi Bogomilsky, Rabbi Osdobo were very fearful of…)
we have enough rabel rousers in this community we dont need an outsider “Soton”!
we had a clear as day zabla din torah and a shtar Birurin was sgined by R. Osdoba and R. Schwei.
the Beis Din Zabla ruled and we must accept weather we like it or not.
ENOUGH WITH THE CHILULL LUBAVITCH!
what is an ikul and a siruv???
thanks
What happened to the other 4 Rabonim on the Zablah din torah?
If they would come forward and sign and we would have a psak with FIVE sig. on it,it would put an end to the fighting!!!
BH. Even if your comment is just, but where is the “BH”. at the beginning of your letter?, only #7 typed it in. (I am not judging his comment. ) The Rebbe said “sholom kan hakol kan”. That even with all the faults, accept as it is, because then you will have everything. By a sota, fo the sake of peace, Hashem allows His Holy Name, to be erased, which is against halocho. This is a lesson for us to learn from.from.
its about time this was done. the whole thing was 1 sided scam
Who cares if R’ Braun is the third “Rov”, CH doesn’t deserve a real Beis Din.
Remember how the old vaad hakol argued against withdrawing their suit unless R’ Osdoba’s side signed that they’d adhere to the din torah?? Everyone screamed and shouted that it was messira and how dare they suspect R’ Osdoba of disobeying a din torah… v’chulu. I hope they can reinstate suit and let all of the truth come out.
How much money were these guys paid for this letter?
Couldn’t they get a reputable Beis Din to issue an ‘ikul’? Oh, I forgot, a reputable Beis Din would never engage in this type of activity…
Hashem Yerachem…
This is so not right. How can they do this to us?
From the fact that this bd put a “siruv” on rabbi marlow (and rabbi azdoba) before, you can tell what’s their drive…
Now I understand why the “loosing party” implored the Vaad Hakohol to hold of with the ‘hachtara’ just for a while. They were shopping for an ‘ikul’! but their problem was that 99% of normal, honorable Botei Dinim WILL NOT issue an ikul in a case like this. So they needed TIME to “rabbi” shop all over, and find some ‘hidden’, unknown rabbonim – NOT a reputable Beis din – who are looking for some attention ($$$) etc. Job well done! Problem is that the parties in the dispute already SIGNED that they are NOT allowed to do this, and… Read more »
YES, Uncle Moishey has now taken on new importance
to the person who posted this above; what an eye opener:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Jf0LafDHQT8/TT49wqvLeOI/AAAAAAAAAio/RnLyYq0ib6I/s1600/shtar+birurin.jpg
what a bizayun!!!!!!!! and what an expense to move a family here from australia, basically what a big joke!!!!!!!!!!!!! may be 14 is right MONEY MONEY MONEY BUT THAT’S NOT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
listen to this short story the Rebbe relates about how a loosing party to a Din Torah usually reacts…
http://bit.ly/i6n9ck
as a Kensington resident- you dont realize the Chillul Lubavitch being caused. Im embarrassed.
look in alter rebbe hilchos nzkei haguf venefesh, sif 15 till the end
The third line of the fourth paragraph reads: “And it was clearly agreed upon that no Beis Din in the world can annul nor alter the Psak Din even if it is their belief that the Beis Din erred.”
“Rabbi Krauss is the Morah D’asra of the Bais Yisroel community of Kensington, Av Beis Din Ohel Chaim of Brooklyn and a Dayan of Agudas Harabbanim Of USA and Canada. In 1998 he signed a “siruv” against Rabbi Yehuda Kalman Marlow OBM.”
It shows us 1) exactly who this man is, and 2) who it is that’s using him, of all people, to oppose R’ Braun. So telling…!
to 13: it was signed “bshem habeis din.”
Generally: this is outrageous on many levels. Mainly, however, whence their jurisdiction to overturn a ZABLA?? It’s mind boggling. Really, this is so typical and sets a great example: if you don’t like the result of the beis din that originally heard your case, even by your own will, just go to another beis din or court. It’s so sad…
For all mcharchrei riv and machlokes, please check your Tefillin see sicha erev shavuos 5740.
Why is it always “di linke” who try to involve fremde batei din in community matters? i.e. siruv against Rabbi Marlow a”h a few years back (of course now even they proclaim his honor – acharei mos, kedoshim emor… ) and yblcht”a Rabbi Osdoba.
Why?
To #10, I just confirmed the Vaad Hakohol signed the Shtar Bairurim as well and therefore the Vaad is bound to Rabbi Rosenberg’s psak. The wording is clear that they can not get another bais din involved. Rabbi Rosenberg has been down this road before and was careful to put this in. There this Ikul is garbage and has no teeth and should be ignored.
Who do they think they are???? anyone ever heard of them? why are these outsiders telling us what to do? we have our own Rabonim BH. and who dared go to them? I want answers
After we clear this up. The runner up will come the new Rov I.e welcome Rabbi Bogomilsky you are the real winner hang in for another few weeks
Just in time for the deadline of Rosh Chodesh Adar. The Rov can cancel is tickets now and get refunded due to the weather conditions. Maybe he can get his job back in Sydney, I guess they are the ones that are gonna be most disappointed
Aren’t the folks who instigated this ikul also opposed to Rav Osdoba? Evidently, חכמים that they are, their only goal is to destroy the Rebbe’s sh’chuna. Worse than sick.
We Chas Veshalom don’t have anything but utmost respect for Rabbi Rosenberg, and who would dare come after the ‘melech’.
Buuuuutttt, please disregard his Psak to have a contract written by Rosh Chodesh Adar I. Hmmmm, interesting, and very political.
false steps aren’t real, this step of a “New Rov!” + “Peace Finally” wasnt the step were waiting for. It’s good that were retracing our steps! B”H!
I have a difficult time understanding what role a beis din plays in Crown Heights, if its very leadership is to be formed by this Rabbis Krauss, Goldstein and Stalmen trio.
Maybe Rabbis Kraus, Goldstein, and Stalmen should be the new beis din in Crown heights….as soon as we verify that they have all been ordained as rabbis
What a חילול השם
Is this the same R’ Kraus? that put a Siruv on Rabbis Marlow and Osdoba?
Rabbi Kraus has no business mixing in to a pre agreed Zablo. Rabbi Kraus take a hike.
Rabbi Ozdoba respecs a beis din only if he is a winner. How sad.
I suggest that next year there will be another election for a 3rd Rov, this time to replace Rabbi Ozdoba. Wait and see.
oh mygoodness nothing better for these rabbis to do.
no it was always color war now it’s bog war…
A bais din with no jurisdiction is trying to mix in. I love how first they were screaming that R Rosenberg is not a lubavitcher and now they go to non lubavitchers themselves. I guess CH really does need to split in two. this is why the youth are leaving us. What is left to show them about Rabbonim etc. Sad day.
Obama for rov! R’ Braun for president!
i can’t believe they can do this to the community.
they are being very egotistic and selfish.
moshiach NOW
someone with backbone to stand up to corruption!
The strategist behind this latest scam would do great in Mubarak Government in Egypt.
While I am no big fan of Rabbi Braun, there was free and democratic elections. Most of the CH residents showed up to vote, and Rabbi won. Is that not the same type of free democracy that millions of people around the world are fighting for.
So after letters and more letters, they scope to this.
Grow up – you lost let DEMOCRACY prevail
i think some chabad rabonim should come out with a psak that he isnt a rav either
everyone calm down!
If there is one thing I’m learning from this story is that if a Beis din makes a psak, it is not binding. I am free to decide it I feel that the psak is against halacha and then have another beis din do a take two.
“and the mess grew bigger, every single day”
on the third line of the second to the last paragraph of the “arbitration agreement” (signed by both parties) reads: “And it was clearly agreed upon that no Beis Din in the world can annul nor alter the Psak Din even if it is their belief that the Beis Din erred.”
When everyone is politician. I guess without 3 ravs we dont have a beis din. Hate to be the next rav running. I hope everyone likes him, or else he may be overthrown because it clearly has nothing to do with weather or not he is capable. Or any other ravs rulings for that matter.
about time!
just show ur passport already ..nu ?
This is getting ridiculous. . .
Why would R Braun want to be himself?? Why would he put himself in this carzy position? Why would he want to be a ROV????
If I was the cause of such craziness I would say never mind its not worth it and step back.
Money honey!
the losing party are a bunch of sore losers!
I want to cry
There is one who stands by the truth even when that makes him unpopular. His decision does not change with the wind. The way these events have unfolded only affirms his commitment to the truth. I will continue to support Rav Osdaba ad bi’us moshiach.
stop fighiting and waving the flames you want this cummunity to be strong dont fight with or Rabbonim. the rebbe made i clear we need to stop this and not let thus Yitzer Haros stick ther nose in are cummuinty. lets live in peace that will to the most bennefit to are children to are scholls and are commuinity. b’soros tovos
Fire them all and live like human beings without any rov the institution has just caused machlokes.
If you have a question ask a local Rov or a Rov of anash and if you have a dint torah go to BP or flatbush!!!
There was a Zabla. Whence this Beis Din’s jurisdiction?
both sides signed a “Shtar Borerin” BEFORE THE BEGGINING OF THE DIN TORAH where is says clearly:
“‘it was stated explicitly that no other Bies Din in the world can add or change the Psak, even if they think that this Beis Din erred”
without rabbonim and beis din; yiddishkeit is lost. i know with my children, when the rov says something and they AND I don’t like it, i still tell them if the rov said u gotta listen. these uphold our values.
whoever is doing this can take responsibility for all the tragedies 🙁
ITS JUST SIMPLY TOO LATE .IF U WORK LIKE THIS ‘RUNNING TO ANOTHER BEIS DIN YOULL TURN OVER THE WHOLE YIDISHKEIT’AS THE SAYING GOES :THE BUCK STOPS HERE PERIOD.THERE WAS ZABLA 5 RABBONIM ‘THEY RULED & ITS OVER .PERIOD/ NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT’JUST QUIT IT .TORA IS NO JOKE .U CANT PLAY AROUND ‘PURIM IS AROUND THE CORNER THATS TIME FOR JOKES’ JUST FOLLOW THE PSAK OF ZABLA & BROCHOS WILL COME.
Let’s get an Ikul against the Ikul! Then if they get an Ikul against our anti-Ikul Ikul, we’ll get an Ikul declaring their Torah Sheni as void.
The beis din zabla of 5 have spoken.
lol
Rabbi Osboda and Rabbi Schvei both singed that they will obey the Psak of the Zabla EVEN if another Bais Din comes and says it’s mistaken.
The following link is the Shtar Biruren from Zaki Tamir’s blog
http://votetamir.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_24.html
by your own reasoning, then, this psak should hold.
rabbi rosenbergs last psak was signed only by himself. so this psak is 3 against 1.
The Bais Din of 5 overruled their own Psak Din.. 3 times…! It was a joke!
i think im just fine with out summer games!
this bais din cant have any jurisdiction over our vaad hakahal!
No one cares about these power trips. Just let R’ Braun continue now that he already got in.
The same garbage once again….if you don’t like a psak or a bais din go to another one and if they will get them to issue a siruv….AD. MUSAY???
Good News!
LOL! This is never going to stop!
Why cant a simple solution which all can agree on be implemented – expand the Bais Din to a 5 member Bais Din.
CH is a very large and diverse community, a small Bais Din isn’t fair because there needs to be true representation of all legitimist elements in the community, why are we all being so narrow minded here.
If we have larder Bais Din people can find the Rov they feel most comfortable with and the Bais Din will actually serve a productive purpose instead of it just being a symbolic Bais Din.
The opening paragraph of this article is very biased. Most of us would not call this Ikkul a “setback” but a rectification!
Let the color war begin….
we are just fed up of all this!!
can we just cancell this whole joke of a beis din that is doing everything to defy whatever we are trying to teach our children?!
no rov, yes rov – we dont care. either way we use other rabbonim for shaalos on any matter. so why the waste of money, why the headache, why the embarrassment and why ruin our fear of hashem and respect for rabbonim??
with tears,
a toshav hashchuna
A beis din of 3 cannot nullify the decision of a beis din of 5.
Rabbi Krauss this is non of your business.