Oct 28, 2010
Who's Responsible for Abuse?

Crown Heights activist Rabbi Shea Hecht and others spoke at a seminar on the prevention of child abuse in Jewish communities.

Rabbi Shea Hecht, Director of the National Committee for the Furtherance of Jewish Education, and other community activiets have addressed at seminar on the prevention of child abuse in Orthodox Jewish communities.

It was held at B’nai Israel of Linden Heights in Brooklyn to mark the National Jewish Week for the Prevention of Child Abuse by the Jewish Board of Advocates for Children (JBAC).

VIDEO (by vinnews.com):
Joel Engelman, a survivor


Rabbi Shea Hecht, Director of the National Committee for the Furtherance of Jewish Education


Rabbi Nochum Rosenberg - part 1


Rabbi Nochum Rosenberg - part 2


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Opinions and Comments
1
Nice hat shea!!
;)
(10/28/2010 9:00:45 PM)
2
Joel is a hero
Joel Engleman you are an absolute hero - to come out with your story!! To put the cause and the safety of all other children in the community before yourself and so bravely standing up to tell the truth!!!

You didnt speak much about how you are today, but I can only imagine that you are still suffering! You call yourself a survivor - so I hope that it means that you are moving on with life and have somewhat recovered from the torment and suffering and that you have only the best in life for the future.

I just want to point out that I know personally too many stories of teachers that had a terrible history. All they did was get kicked out of the community and sent to another one to repeat his sick actions!!!! What do we do!?!

I am a little disappointed Shia - how about some practical words? eg. Speak to your kids, Knowledge is power when it comes to abuse! You can't prevent it, but you can created knowledge and opennes with your kids that they know they can feel safe to tell you righ away if something happens so you can prevent it for becoming an ongoing longstanding torture and can make sure the perpetrator is outed!

Theres a reason for a offenders list! Why cant we have one in our community too?! If someone is a known abuse offender it is an AVEIRAH NOT to maser on them! They are a danger to your children - what they do is MURDER and MURDER of not just one generation - but future generations cuz the abused can become abusers without help!! ironic - but thats how it is.

Maser on abusers!!!! But of course, only if there is a solid case against them. Kids these days are very clever - if they dot like a teacher they know they just have to yell abuse!

As well, the emphasis on abusers as teachers etc is a little overdone. Of course, theyre the most dangerous cuz they have the most access to kids - but watch out for your neighbour, shabbos guests, relatives EVERYONE!! Teach your kids!! and dont be ashamed to talk. The abusers deserve to suffer!!!

We really really need Moshiach NOW
(10/28/2010 9:03:40 PM)
3
kol hakavod
Kol hakavod to the organizers of the event, and to Collive for posting these videos. This is a topic that must be discussed and should not be hidden.
(10/28/2010 9:15:34 PM)
4
scared
I'm really scared for my future kids.
(10/28/2010 10:04:25 PM)
5
what's child abuse?
l grew up getting potsh on my behind,although it would have been better to handle it differently,this is not child abuse,sometimes the child thinks that it's a joke and doesn't even come close to what is's all about
(10/28/2010 10:15:38 PM)
6
Preventative Measures
Some time ago, Mrs. Bronya Shaffer gave an important online talk to shluchos about how to help protect our children from abuse. I'm not sure why this video should be kept only for shluchos--every parent can benefit and it's so important. Maybe a request can be made to the shluchim office to post this to collive.
(10/28/2010 11:45:44 PM)
7
nuchem rosenberg
this guy nuchem is bringing a subject thats taboo out in the open but not everything he says is right and he is a big musser. just so happens to be that one of the big cases he got to see the molester put away is being investigated now cause the victim is being investigated for blackmail and perjury and a load of other things. so yes he is doing good but theres a way for doing it. dont convince boys to testify when you knowingly admit that you know hes lying but as long as defendant goes to jail than its ok
(10/29/2010 12:09:47 AM)
8
correction to #6
contact merkos about posting shaffers video for all.
718 774 4000
ask for someone to direct you to speak to those that arrange weekly online shiurim for the shluchos.
(10/29/2010 2:31:36 AM)
9
appropriate?
i am not sure if this is the avenue to present this video keeping in mind that children watch col to. perhaps there shuld be a special website to play such vidios for parents only.
(10/29/2010 2:31:54 AM)
10
kol hakavod
Kol hakavod to those who organized the event and to the askanim who are working to eliminate this scourge from our communities. And thank you to COLLive for posting the excerpts, I would love to see the entire event if possible.
(10/29/2010 3:39:53 AM)
11
so brave
joel you are a very special young man. I really hope Hashem gives you strength forever to become the exceptional person that you are.
(10/29/2010 7:18:13 AM)
13
what Shea said is very true
To #2,
The whole community is to blame when we have allowed rabbonim to be paid off to allow abusers protection.
As a long time BT however, I would have to say that the blame does not apply equally to us, unless we become as insular as the rest of the frum world. Holding the threat of shidduchim over our heads would not have worked because our children often marry other children of BTs and most BTs would not remain silent in the face of abuse. I have absolutely zero respect for those rabbis who harbor child molesters. Their Torah learning goes straight into the trashcan. With most BTs, silencing does not work. I know of someone who got busted because he messed with the son of BTs. Even if the BT would be hesitant about calling the police, which is highly doubtful, their non-frum relatives would have no trouble reporting the perp. BTs are more likely to warn their children about molestation and are not ashamed, afraid, or embarrassed to properly educate their children
I would also have to say that it is sad that so many lives had to be wrecked before the frum community woke up, but it is understandable why so many are opting out of RW Orthodoxy because it is majorly dysfunctional. Shea and Nachum owned up to that and people like Joel were 100% right to leave the community that caused them so much anguish and harm. Hopefully those souls will find a place for themselves in a more tolerant Jewish community.
(10/29/2010 8:07:19 AM)
14
rainbow
If you are still wondering about the rainbow over crown heights 2 days ago, it appear as an bow that arches over an entire neighborhood - collective responsibility...
Rabbi Hecht, you no doubt are aware that child abuse is a cancer in the heart of the heights.
How is fancy talking going to help kids already being murdered one attack at a time?
Cult-busting requires more than a speech.
(10/29/2010 8:28:58 AM)
15
TO #6
She is my great-aunt, just by the way...
(10/29/2010 8:56:32 AM)
16
To Joe Engelman
Joe, may Hashem protect you from any further harm, and may Moshiach come now and there will be no more suffering!

Ad Mossai!?
(10/29/2010 9:15:03 AM)
17
To #2
I agree. Joel, you are really a hero for saying this story, this will make the parents be more alert for their children.
Joel, may it be the Ratzon of Hashem that Moshiach will come and no one will suffer any more. AMEN!
(10/29/2010 9:16:42 AM)
18
scared
im very scared of sending my kids to yeshiva,
i hope that in the merit of joels courage to speak up it will prevent such atrocities from occurring in the future.
(10/29/2010 9:57:17 AM)
19
13
to # 13, surprise surprise, my husband was abused by a bt
(10/29/2010 10:00:06 AM)
20
Kol Hakavod
To COL for posting this, its about time it came out in the open, for parents, and for kids to watch and learn that its not OK to be abused in any which way by any person. If your parents will not or cannot protect you, tell someone else like an older friend or teacher.
(10/29/2010 10:01:04 AM)
21
To 19
I did not say that BTs were incapable of abusing someone. What I did say was that the BT culture does not protect abusers. BTs could have the same perverseness as anyone else but would not expect the community to stay quiet about them.
(10/29/2010 10:11:58 AM)
22
Leadership
Thank you COL for showing the courage lacking in many of our communal leaders and rabbis in publicizing a life threatening danger to our children.

How many more suicides, drug overdoses, OTD, failed marriages, ruined lives will it take for our leaders to get their heads out of the sand.

When will we have a conference like this in Crown Heights?
(10/29/2010 11:29:43 AM)
23
to 21
understood
(10/29/2010 11:29:44 AM)
24
educate
bronya shaffer gave a great talk on how to educate ourselfs and kids, it would be great if it could be posted online.
joel you are a hero to be able too stand up and say your story may hashem help you have a complete recovery and may you have only joy in your life from now on.
(10/29/2010 12:45:56 PM)
25
Parent/Mechanech
RE: #4

Having children is a huge resposbility and like #22 mentioned, having an event like this in CH can help prepare parents and the community to prevent from unwanted harm to our children. We need to emphasize the tools children need to say "no", how to foster relationships in which children can communicate such a sensitive event occuring and demand protection from our schools like windows in all classrooms, no one and one tutoring without close monitoring. An event further detailing how to communicate to children before they go to camp/school/sleep overs etc is a great idea.
(10/29/2010 1:36:11 PM)
26
Prevention is KEY
What do you think we can do, as a community, to prevent this moving forward?
(10/29/2010 1:44:11 PM)
27
primitive
why are so many people in the frum community so primitive its mind boggeling how these have two hells one to go through the abuse and then to be victimized by these communities.
(10/29/2010 2:31:46 PM)
28
DOWLOADABLE?
Can you please make a downloadable mp3 of the entire thing so that we can listen to is while driving.
(10/29/2010 3:13:38 PM)
29
ALSO...
many well meaning parents let their kids have a lot of freedom and their coming home from school an hour late does not even raise an eyebrow...please parents you need to be a little more involved, aware and in control of your kids schedules- even the teenagers!
(10/29/2010 3:55:45 PM)
30
camp
Schools are not the only place where children have been abused. Overnight camps (where many of our children start attending as young as 7 or 8 years old) and out-of-town yeshivas are places where abuse takes place, as well. Make sure to speak to your son before he goes to overnight camp or an out-of-town yeshiva. In BP parents were asked not to let their young sons go to the mikva or the swimming pool unattended! Speak to your children. I know of one rebbe in ULY who spoke to his first graders in an appropriate, aidele way. But it's our responsibility as parents to speak to our children about it and recognize the signs of abuse so that we can get our children help if they chas v'shalom are abused.
(10/30/2010 9:03:12 PM)
31
Thank you
coll would it be possible to post the whole thing?
does anyone know where we can hear the whole thing?
thanks joel for coming forward, and Rabbi rosenberg
whos doing great work!
(10/30/2010 9:42:32 PM)
32
Thank you!
Thank you COL for posting this video, bringing this important subject to our community. Thank you to the event organizers and speakers who are going against the tide, and promoting awareness, abuse prevention, and education.

I also want to mention, that aside from our responsibility in keeping perpetrators away from our children, we also need to foster a communication with our children/ students that would allow them to speak up if something happened, so they can get the appropriate help/ therapy.

There are many therapists/phsychologists that are specially trained to work with child abuse survivors, and are very successful at empowering the survivor to reclaim their lives.

Free therapy is also available through the crime victims treatment centers at Beth Israel, and at St Lukes, both of which have alot of experience working with the Frum communities.
Beth Israel (212) 420-4516
St Luke's (212) 523-4728
(11/1/2010 7:01:10 PM)
33
About time !
Thank G-D we are progressing !
(11/2/2010 3:01:11 AM)
34
Anonymous
" few are guilty, all are responsible" quote by Rabbi Mark Dratch
(11/2/2010 10:13:35 PM)
35
Please try to understand
Perpetrators, unless they have had an awakening of grand proportions, will not stop unless the public authorities stop them. We might WANT them to stop, we might THINK they have stopped because they say they have, etc. But they do not stop without being FORCED to. We might think that because they proclaim to be frum, they are frum in the real sense. BUT THEY ARE NOT! They go through the motions of "frum" while leading their second life, which is ABUSER!
(7/25/2011 5:07:09 PM)
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