ב"ה
Thursday, 27 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 7, 2024

Shea Hecht Debates Women

A week before the election runoff, Rabbi Shea Hecht had a stormy debate with a group of Chabad Shluchos on campus about the role of women. Full Story

Day Camp Visits Aquarium

Next Story »

Bais Chana Empowers Women

Subscribe
Notify of
82 Comments
oldest
newest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
gaf
October 28, 2010 3:41 pm

It’s funny how defensive and bent out of shape we all seem to get when the truth is staring us in the face and we can’t face it.
Rabbi Hecht, well said!
Children ARE the next generation and if we dont do our part how can they do theirs.

#80 kUDOS TO U
July 6, 2010 4:33 pm

Excellently written u after reading the other 79 comments finally someone said it like itshould be said.

from the perspective of a campus shlucha and mother of 10 B
July 5, 2010 5:00 pm

Being I didn’t attend the session and only read it on COL, I think with all due respect to Rabbi Hecht and the ppl who publish COL that when you only read this it gives a very incorrect message to the world of Lubavitch at large. It kind of sounds like ALL shluchos (or at least campus shluchos) have it all wrong!!!!!rabbi hecht speaks about kids being top priority as if its a new invention or something we have totally forgotten about. To write an article about us in that way is really not right and gives a sad picture… Read more »

from a shlucha
July 5, 2010 9:59 am

Thank you for saying what I have been saying for over 15 years, the family we gave birth to comes first, otherwise why do we have children?

talk to the men as well...
July 5, 2010 1:36 am

I had the zechus to attend the Ivy League Torah study program years ago b’h and I can say that it is in good part because of Shea Hecht and his family that I am a frum woman today. b’h Now…first of all, I wasn’t at the talk Second we do all know the Rebbe says that the family comes first BUT…I probe my heart when I feel an inner rage whenever I get mussar about not taking enough care of my kids..(believe it or not, I am doing my best, in spite of imperfections here and there) and I… Read more »

I was there too....
July 4, 2010 10:35 pm

For three days the shluchos had workshops upon workshops upon workshops…. and what were they about? Chinuch, raising our children, working with our husbands, giving classes, chavrusas, da ma shetashiv…… so many workshops on those topics. How many were on ‘fancy programming’? ONE In addition to one on fundraising, for shluchos who do choose to get involved in that aspect on shlichus. I think that this alone tells us that shluchos know their priorities. However, a mother on shlichus should feel a sense of achrayus. If a student wants to start a chavrusa, the shlucha is there. If a shlucha… Read more »

moishe y engel-shliach-long beach ,ca.
July 4, 2010 3:23 am

i will not way in on this as most of the sentiments pro and con were correct i wish to address a very related issue some shluchim/os seem to feel that by compromising certain areas their students and ba`alei batim can relate to them more i believe the rebbes approach was and is always a 2-pronged approach not 1 comes 1st and 1 secondary(shlichus/vs kids/family/chassishkeit) but both are equally 1st what purpose in reaching out if we lose our own little neshamalech or compromise our own values in the process and what purpose in concentrating on our own kids /tznius/values… Read more »

Dear Shmuly
July 4, 2010 2:33 am

I am glad you find meaning in Rabbi Hecht’s article. So do I. Unfortunately, his article obviously was not his session. His article, appears to be an attempt to distort the facts of his presentation, which was obviously inappropriate as related by the comments above. If Rabbi Hecht would have stuck to his article (without the self pity) I am sure shluchos would have appreciated his session as much as you appreciate his article. Additionally, Rabbi Hecht claims to put family first. Are Shluchos not part of his family? Chassidim Ein Mishpocha as it says in Hayom yom. What compelled… Read more »

NO ONE IS AGAINST WHAT HE SAID
July 4, 2010 2:08 am

JUST HOW IT WAS SAID, THATS ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

Chazal say:
July 4, 2010 1:09 am

Divrei Chachomim B’nachas Nishmoeem. V’dal

although..........
July 4, 2010 12:20 am

I was there. We had a 5 minute break in the middle with the option of going to another seeions. Guess what? EVERYONE stayed for the rest of the session. if I was so insulted i would’ve just left!!

Dear Shmuly
July 3, 2010 11:11 pm

I am so glad that you are speaking up to voice your much needed words of soothing calm. The pursuit of sholom is commendable and admirable. In this situation I am afraid you are bit off…it rings a bit hollow. You know why? Cause you weren’t there. I don’t know of any shluchah that disagreed with the sentiment to put their children first. All of the commentators here, who were not there, and think this was a “debate” are greatly misinformed. Most of the shluchos who I talked with had a big problem with manner of presentation. #12 communicated her… Read more »

another shlucha at the session
July 3, 2010 10:39 pm

I’m glad this article was put up. It is so much easier to hear and agree with what is being said when it is not being yelled at you. I too am not from Crown Heights and neither are a large percentage of campus shluchos. I don’t know of this “Hecht way of speaking” that seems to be excused by all who know them. What happened to basic manners? R’ Hecht had a good message but came across as chauvinistic and rude. He yelled and shouted most of his talk and threw sharp barbs at individual shluchos like “you spent… Read more »

To # 48
July 3, 2010 9:21 pm

Your 100% correct. However there are some that think that shlichus may justify sacrificing our involvement in the chinuch of our children. There have been chassidim qouting the Rebbe as saying – which i sincerely beleive the Rebbe never said – “Du tu in mayne inyonim un ich vel zorgen far daine kinder” (You occupy yourself in my activities and i will take care of your children – ie their yiddiskeit”). Hearing such qoutes and seeing how many many shluchim act – its not that simple to think otherwise

Your students are also your children...
July 2, 2010 7:13 pm

your students are also your children…..

Dear Shlucha #2
July 2, 2010 7:06 pm

B”H Dear Shlucha, I’m so glad to read your post; I am a big fan of speaking up when experiencing pain. All too often we leave the discomfort canned up and it inevitably explodes where we least want it too. Let me see if I understand this correctly. You care about the Chinuch of your children. Rabbi Hecht cares about the Chinuch of your children. You care about the Hatzlocho of your Shlichus. Rabbi Hecht would love nothing more than to see you flourish in all ways, material and spiritual. You were looking forward to words of inspiration and guidance,… Read more »

To # 60 - from a poshite yid.
July 2, 2010 6:39 pm

Even if there was some Shluchos who disagreed with his message, which I doubt, this article implies that most of them did disagree, I can’t imagine that being the case. His article is a misrepresentation if so.

I think most shluchos agree with his message. The messenger is a great person too. A real advocate for Klal Yisroel.

When you speak in a brusque manner, chances are, you will offend people. Piece of advice: Recognize your mistake and try not to do it again.

This article seems unjustified and exploitative.

its always interesting
July 2, 2010 5:14 pm

to see which article gets the most comments. We all (myself included) are way too hooked on these comments. It is such a time waster, especially on erev shabbos when we all could be doing much better things I’m sure!!!

Why are we focusing on shluchos kids?
July 2, 2010 5:01 pm

How about CH kids? There is a much bigger percentage of CH kids at risk than shluchos kids at risk…

# 32
July 2, 2010 4:38 pm

“I forgot to mention a very important point…I have two daughters on Shlichus & in real outposts (not in the US either!) THEY PUT THEIR CHILDREN FIRST! You should see their level of chassidishkeit & frumkeit. They are on the On-line school & also home-schooled in English, Math, art, music & their native languages.”

Am i the only one who sees a contradiction here?

about # 12
July 2, 2010 4:36 pm

I give # 12 the benifit of the doubt that she is not from CH and is not familiar with the CH and to a greater point the Hecht way of speaking. The Hechts are kindhearted people but cary big sticks. If you would hear how their father transulated the rebbe’s sicha in front of the rebbe it would probobly shock # 12 as well . it is a tottla clash of backgrounds and i am sure that they both a gree on the content. sholom al yisrael.

To #40
July 2, 2010 4:08 pm

I think you are mistaken about the fact that the Kinus HaShluchos was established in order to maintain (or establish) equality between the Shluchim and Shluchos. The Rebbe actually said that there should be a Kinus for all Shluchim – “anashim, nashim, vetaf”.

A Shlucha also
July 2, 2010 3:54 pm

Kudos to Rabbi Hecht. Shluchos, please dont shoot the messenger. Just go to any shluchos convention and see how packed the kids at risk and sholom bayis sessions are. We are paying a big price by being the superwoman. The woman is the Akeres Habayis, when she does her job well, her husband can go out and ‘conquer’ the world. But if both husband and wife are ‘conquering the world’ , the home base is neglected. Instead of criticizing Shea Hecht for saying that which has to be said, we should thank him for his advocacy on our behalf. He… Read more »

apparently it's not obvious to all
July 2, 2010 3:39 pm

Years ago, there was an article in the N’Shei Chabad Newsletter in which a woman wrote about a shlucha who called her for a “reality check.” Her fellow shlucha told her that she couldn’t wait for Monday to come so her child would go back to boarding away from home in order to attend school because when her child was home he was clingy.” The shlucha was horrified by this unmotherly sentiment and by the perversion of this shlucha’s values. Rather than understand that her young child was clingy since he was away from home all week and craved her… Read more »

hey number 12
July 2, 2010 3:29 pm

you style of writing is exactly the way you criticized Rabbi Hecht for allegedly behaving.. you with your delivery are finding fault with his delivery.
And why the name calling???
Does a shlucha resort to this sort of defense.. I don’t think so… R U truly a shlucha or just someone who found a neat way to attack.
Have a great Shabbos and a great life.

to #13 re sheitel
July 2, 2010 3:24 pm

“no one knows (or cares) that you’re wearing a polyester sheitl that cost $69 from a catalog. ”

that’s true if it is very short and brown

otherwise, of course synthetic sheitels are obviously just that

absolutely nothing wrong with wearing one but to say nobody knows is not true (though they probably don’t care)

rabbi hecht is right
July 2, 2010 2:18 pm

i know lots of teen that came to him for help. he does it a very confidant way. he is trying to prevent any future problems with the shluchim children. open your eyes mothers.

To # 12 and all your other comments
July 2, 2010 1:51 pm

It is very clear that you have a personal vendetta against Rabbi Hecht.

Thank you # 51
July 2, 2010 1:20 pm
#21
July 2, 2010 12:52 pm

I agree. lets hear the audio!

Love your fellow Jew
July 2, 2010 12:41 pm

Why so much criticism and lashon hara about Rabbi Hecht???
It is the 3 weeks, you know!

Shlucha of the 70's
July 2, 2010 12:39 pm

Thank you, Rabbi Hecht, for taking a stand on a controversial issue. We must put our husbands and children first. This is what they Rebbe taught and we are the role models for the people we work with. The shluchos are doing wonderful work with great mesirus nefesh, but there should not be pressure, from the outside or from within, to spend long hours away from their own children. The plague of “off the derech” effects families of all types, even shluchos, and we cannot take chinuch of our children for granted. PS. My own daughter and son-in-law decided against… Read more »

To #45 and 47
July 2, 2010 12:04 pm

Amen. I’m glad COLlive put your comment up! Couldn’t agree more.

read comment 12
July 2, 2010 12:02 pm

Let’s hear the audio and let’s judge

humble opinion
July 2, 2010 11:47 am

To # 20 and others

While you sound like you mean well I just want to point out that you’re ‘justifying’ taking care of your children by saying it’s part of your shlichus. That’s how warped our minds have become! Just like shlichus doesn’t take away any of the 613 mitzvos it doesn’t come before (or equal) to our first achrayus of taking care of our family. The commitment of shlichus requires self – sacrifice of our own time and comforts. Not of Torah and Mitzvos. And certainly not the self-sacrifice of others! In this case our children.

only a hecht
July 2, 2010 11:41 am

A person that openly boasts about himself so much (yes, he definitely tries doing it with class, dressing it up in a article about shlichus…) is definitely my choice for the vaad hakohal of a chasidisher community. its very healthy for him, it’ll give the guy a bigger platform to promote himself, and we would be helping him a lot!

the Rebbe taught
July 2, 2010 11:21 am

We are all one big family. A well known chossid principal went into yechidus with her students and at the end told the Rebbe, pointing to her daughter, “this is my Channeleh”. The Rebbe replied, they are all yours! For a true Chossid , mine is yours. There is no them and us! We are lamplighters, and the fire doesn’t get diminished when we light others. On the contrary, we get more light! When we live like this we give our children the real treasure. With sensitivity it can be done, and it must. This is what distinguishes Chabad and… Read more »

Embarrasing - SHOCKING!
July 2, 2010 10:49 am

Rabbi Hecht lost his cool in front of many women. Instead of admitting to a sub-par performance, he tries to save face by re-delivering his message and at the same time, putting down hard working Shluchos, great mothers and wives. Who strive everyday to put their family first!

SHOCKING!

A ch resident
July 2, 2010 10:47 am

i had an interview with a shliach and went down to meet the palace etc. when i told him that in the evenings my wife will ave to be home etc. i was told “i am not ready to hire”…..

I was there
July 2, 2010 10:13 am

Thank You Rabbi Hecht for validating all us shluchos who look to our kids first. They are our shlichus. Sure some women have the talent to be superwoman, but not me. My day is filled with taking care of my children and I can’t count how many people have been influenced towards yidishkeit from seeing the way a true Jewish home should be.

Its not always the fancy titled programs that get people. It is being who we honestly are.

to 23
July 2, 2010 9:54 am

I don’t think allot is a word. next time try “explains a lot”. shabbat shalom.

VOTING FOR SHEA
July 2, 2010 9:41 am

HE CARES. AND SHOWS IT. YES, ISSUES ARE CONTROVESIAL, BUT HE DOESNT LET THAT STOP HIM.

VOTE FOR SHEA!

Original Shlichus ways....
July 2, 2010 9:38 am

It seems that historically the “Shluchos” circle is an innovation of the later years. Originally, the Shliach was doing his Shlichus, joined by his family, where the Akeres Habayis assumed that role of Akeres Habayis. In more recent years, management and perhaps head shluchim (as they like to be refered to) felt that Shluchos lacked recognition and are ignored. consequently, you heard of Shluchos as an entioty and a Kinus being organized yearly. Early on, you heard of “Shluchim” and wives joined the Shluchim. Today, you better remember to always say “Shluchim AND Shluchos”. So yeah, in my opinion, Rabbi… Read more »

Bracha
July 2, 2010 9:31 am

Can someone elaborate on his speech? Do we have a some text?

Women's lib
July 2, 2010 9:23 am

What a disgrace, SHANDA!!!!!!!

go ask
July 2, 2010 9:20 am

all you campus shluchos, if u care to know, find an adult child of campus shliach and ask….

A CH Resident VOTING for Rabbi Shea Hecht
July 2, 2010 9:14 am

The Rebbe’s message. Someone had to do it, and R Shea had the guts to. He is always there for us all, as he was there for me when I nhad a problem, many times, and for the rest of CH.

it's expected
July 2, 2010 9:04 am

No head shliach will take you out to work for him today if the wife doesn’t work. I made it clear before we went to work for someone that my primary focus is home. Although sometimes I feel like I’m stuck in the wrong generation b/c I stay home.

to #12
July 2, 2010 8:39 am

Either you’re not a shlucha (because I can’t imagine a shlucha writing so nasty) or this hits home to you and you can’t handle it. How old are your kids that you know that being one of those rara shluchos that’s doing shlichus all day and not spending 15 minutes of proper attention with your kids makes chassidishe kids?? I have dealt with many many teenagers having problems and will tell you that Rabbi Hecht hits the nail on the head. This and Shalom Bayis are the two biggest problems facing our kids today. The parents who are their children’s… Read more »

Dear Comment # 12
July 2, 2010 8:25 am

I was at the session and did not feel like this at all.

You seem to be very vulnerable in your opinion. Perhaps you couldn’t take the truth and thats why you feel violated and did not want to hear a “stubborn” opinion.

WARNING! Where and what will your kids be at 15…20?

A thought to ponder!!!

I'm #7 & I'm embarrassed!
July 2, 2010 8:01 am

I forgot to mention a very important point…I have two daughters on Shlichus & in real outposts (not in the US either!) THEY PUT THEIR CHILDREN FIRST! You should see their level of chassidishkeit & frumkeit. They are on the On-line school & also home-schooled in English, Math, art, music & their native languages. What’s more, these are two very Matzliach Shluchos who would never dream of giving up their Shlichus, despite the many hardships. I think the brochos they get from raising their children & being Mommy First helps them in their Shlichus. One told me recently a young… Read more »

Family First
July 2, 2010 7:42 am

I doubt this is a real issue and that there are any schluchim that don’t put their family first and aren’t terrific parents. I don’t think that has to mean always interrupting what you are doing. Part of growing up means learning patience and sharing. Would you think a doctor was not a good parent if he or she didn’t (absent an emergency) take calls from a child while in the middle of examining a patient? The fact of this world is that parents have to work to make a living (earn your bread by the sweat of your brow).… Read more »

Shluchim/Shluchos
July 2, 2010 7:29 am

There is so much that is beautiful in our heritage…ashreinu matov chelkeinu. As a Shlucha myself I have found that most women are very rooted in their focus and they have so much on their plate, so much to juggle as shluchos. By and large they know their priorities. It has been my observation that in some cases Shluchim fail to appreciate or support how much shluchos are doing. Perhaps some, not all shluchim, should restructure their priorities, to put family at least on the same rung as shlichus because they are one and the same. It is not my… Read more »

Shea Fan
July 2, 2010 7:26 am

Some year ago I removed my son from summer camp because of the non-frum environment (cursing, fighting, pure dysfuction) he was exposed to even the his bunk was made up of boys whom parents were out on shluchos. My family and I have never felt the same about Shluchos since.

LOOKING AFTER YOUR CHILDREN IS PART OF YOUR SHLICHUS
July 2, 2010 5:29 am

Quote from article: “My father lives what he preaches. It’s been quite clear to us throughout our lives that Shlichus, though important, is secondary”.
The Rebbe taught that looking after your children is PART OF YOUR SHLICHUS! They DO come before the students, and a parent has to know how to balance the priorities. For example, involving the kids in the activities and the preparations is both good for the kids and the students.

family first
July 2, 2010 5:22 am

Taking care of your family first is an integral part of your shlichus, of serving as a dugma chaya. Doesn’t matter whether that shlichus is on campus or as R’ Shea proved, in your moisad in CH.

As for R’Shea’s style, love it or hate it but he is who he is and he speaks his mind.

Well put #12
July 2, 2010 3:51 am

I starting reading the article, waiting to hear the ‘stormy’ points of the debate, but all I read, was shea describing how his daughter affirms how he always put his family first! The title of article should have been- shea hechts top tips on family life, or something like that. I thought I thought would read an objective article about two sides of a debate at a conference! N G uk

thank youu!!
July 2, 2010 3:32 am

Very very very well said, Rabbi Shea

Vow of poverty ????
July 2, 2010 3:17 am

The Rebbe spoke clearly ablout all yiddin and especiailly Shluchim having asheerus bgashmius.

Thank you Rabbi Hecht!
July 2, 2010 2:48 am

For a mother (or father) to argue against your point is quite shocking and sad to me & unfortunately also explains allot!

To #s 12 and 16
July 2, 2010 1:52 am

The Hecht family has always done wonderful work and have always been rude, outspoken, and abrasive. Their good comes along with their bad, like a baby with bath water…

looks like its time
July 2, 2010 1:51 am

that we hear the audio of this ‘debate’ before we judge… it sounds from the shluchos that were there that there’s more to it than he claims. lets hear the audio

To #11 - From a Shaliach
July 2, 2010 1:06 am

Raising our children is PART AND PARCEL of our shlichus for both fathers and mothers. It’s not an issue of what comes first. It’s not that we have a shlichus in addition to raising children etc.. Shlichus INCLUDES our own avodas Hashem, our children’s chinuch, our activities in our mosad etc…. Actually the Rebbe wrote to many shluchim wishing them hatzlocho in their shlichus and stating that the Nekuda Hoikris – the main point of their hatzlocho was to see chassidishe nachas from their children! So is that a contadiction to shlichus or maybe the the main thing?????

take it a step further
July 2, 2010 1:00 am

This goes for non shluchim too! This goes for all mothers and fathers. Anyone can be a lawyer, doctor, therapist etc. BUT nobody else can be the parent of your child!!! If you need to work then schedule your job accordingly so that you can be there for your children. You will never ever be able to recapture those lost days and years., A shikse is an ingredient for shaylos in your home if she is left on her own as surrogate mom, a shikse does not dress properly – hence the wrong message – and a shikse does not… Read more »

Mitzvas Ahavas Yisroel
July 2, 2010 12:40 am

Starts at home. Husbands should go straight home after davenen at a normal time and do the Ahavas Yisroel bit with family. You want to farbreng? Go back after a meal with the family. It’s a greater mesiras nefesh than staying “with the boys” in shul. Kids need a father, wives need a husband – and then the husband will have a life and a wife.

VOTE FOR OUR KIDS
July 2, 2010 12:39 am
Lost Respect
July 2, 2010 12:12 am

After reading this article, I lost a lot of respect for Rabbi Hecht. The posting of this article is as inappropriate as the delivery of your session.

surprsing...
July 2, 2010 12:08 am

…that ANY mother can argue this…

Just one shlucha's opinion
July 1, 2010 11:42 pm

Rabbi Shea Hecht, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for saying what Lubavitch Inc, would have us deny. We are NOT superwomen. We are women who work hard, but at the end of the day, our children are our legacy. As a shlucha, I feel there is more and more pressure being put on shluchos to do more, more, more out of the house, and I am constantly trying to juggle that pressure with the inner understanding that I have about my TRUE role in life. Look at the amazing shluchos of 25 years ago; for them family… Read more »

to #2
July 1, 2010 11:39 pm

No shliach took a vow of poverty. Frugality and responsibility yes. We are on shlichus since the early ’80’s. Having to raise every penny of a salary – in additioin to the peulos, means that it becomes criminal to waste money that people give as their tsedaka. Believe it or not – no one knows (or cares) that you’re wearing a polyester sheitl that cost $69 from a catalog.

A Shlucha at the Session
July 1, 2010 11:35 pm

Rabbi Hecht. True, family comes first. Knowing the shluchos that were there and the subjects discussed throughout the Kinus no one would disagree. I was actually looking forward to the session and was very disappointed. You fail to mention that you spoke in a rude, demeaning, argumentative, stubborn, self centered manor. Your demeaner was combative and insensitive to the needs or realities of those you were talking to. I left and commented that you spoke like “Brooklyn Gangster”. The fact that you can write this as your account of the session indicated that you are not honest or self aware!… Read more »

Confused
July 1, 2010 11:32 pm

I’m confused by Shea Hecht’s message. A family’s kids always come first and this should go for the father as much as for the mother. The idea that a father’s primary focus is shlichus and his kids are secondary seems flawed to me.

to no. 4
July 1, 2010 11:31 pm

I always thought we had a frum chassidish home until I realized that my daughter feels that it is ok to space the children a bit more. she can’t handle children close one to another because of their shlichus. so there you go

Other side
July 1, 2010 11:27 pm

What is THEIR point of view?

shlucha
July 1, 2010 11:12 pm

I agree 100% my shlichus is my babies
Shlucha CA

He speaks the truth
July 1, 2010 11:12 pm

and what’s more, Shea DOES live this. I can say it with the benefit of a first-hand conversation with him many years ago on the importance of raising children above all else. Looking at the way so many kids have turned out lately, it may be a good thing to take Shea’s words on board. As a mother who B”H has every one of my children Frum, I say this: if mothers (and fathers, too!) pay as much attention to their kids as they do running around doing Mivtzoim, if they listened to their children as often as they listen… Read more »

It is true
July 1, 2010 11:04 pm

Yes, it is true Rabbi Hecht does believe in “family first”.
I was sitting in his office – I came to him with a problem (everyone knows, you have a problem go to Shea and the bigger the problem for sure go to Shea) So I was in his office with my medium sized problem and the phone rang.. He excused himself and said “I have to take this it’s my son”. I remember thinking ‘Wow” I am impressed! So he does not simply preach he does practice what he preaches.. I witnessed this myself.

the rebbe's view 100%
July 1, 2010 10:58 pm

This is not Shea Hecht’s revolution, the Rebbe made this clear!
Children of campus Shluchim are exposed to MANY things that most frum children don’t see, and only with a strong chassidishe upbringing can they actually get stronger from it!

ITS SO TRUE
July 1, 2010 10:57 pm

i DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW LUBAVITCHERS CAN ARGUE THIS POINT IT IS SO OBVIOUS

From A Shlucha
July 1, 2010 10:53 pm

I dont see anything neggative that ppl can say about this comment…unless this comment was explained differently at the oringinal talk. As far as “children are first” it is 100% true and should be expected – FROM BOTH the mother and the father.

I enjoyed it
July 1, 2010 10:50 pm

I was there when it got heated. It actually felt good to hear people around me mutter how they wish things were a little “less competitive” as in everyone pushing to do more and more constantly and publicly. You made a comment how we signed up to live in “poverty” which set people off more. How much exactly should we spend on sheitels??!!

mmb
July 1, 2010 10:48 pm

R.Shia, you of all people should know better than to have a stormy debate with women, ’cause you won’t win, period.

X