By Aryeh Levin, COLlive reporter
Two leading ideologues of separate streams within the Chabad-Lubavitch movement had a first public discussion during a Chassidic Farbrengen this past Shabbos.
In Crown Heights for Shabbos, Rabbi Avraham Shemtov, Chairman of Aguas Chassidei Chabad umbrella group, sat with Rabbi Nachman Schapiro, head Mashpia of Oholei Torah Yeshiva Zal.
The Farbrengen in a side room in the Yeshiva began at 4:30PM Shabbos day and ended 11PM Motzoei Shabbos, with over 100 bochurim closely observing.
“Just the fact that it happened is a major breakthrough towards achdus,” a participant told COLlive.com. He said the two “had an excellent dialogue.”
Shemtov is a central figure in the establishment as a Shliach in Philadelphia and Washington DC, while Schapiro, formely a Chozer (reviewer) of the Rebbe’s talks is associated with the Messianic belief.
They were joined by senior Mashpia Rabbi Pinye Korf and Rabbi Yekusiel Feldman, Mashpia of Shiur Daled.
According to eye witnesses, rabbis Shemtov and Schapiro respectfully debated the Rebbe’s Sicha from Shabbos Chaye Sarah 5752, which discusses the mission of bringing Moshiach.
Each shared some stories and anecdotes of the Rebbe and Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka Schneerson, whose yahrzeit was on that day.
They were in agreement over the devotion of the late Montreal Mashpia Rabbi Peretz Mochkin, Schapiro’s grandfather.
“It started with only 15 bochurim, but word got around fast,” a bochur wrote to COLlive.com. “We don’t get to hear such a discussion everyday.”
but, you put rabbi shemtov and nachman in the same sentence? both do what the Rebbe wants? do you have any idea how much the Rebbe trusted Rabbi Shemtov in matters that were very personal and sensitive? Do you know how many Shlichusen (at a very young age..) Rabbi Shemtov got from the Rebbe?? Sforim, bes rivkah, Poland, Washington, Gan israel, Aguch… just to say some…
that it is not a mitzva to be mefarsem zehusoi shel moshiach, especially when that can be misconstrued after gimmel tammuz to be heipach mainstream halacha. whilel everyone is entitled to a hergesh, i think the rebbe would be more concerned about a chilul hashem etc.. and i believe nachman knows that , but he chooses to align himself with those who dont for his own political gains.
Growing up in “Kfar Chabbad, having the priviledge of having number of “Yechidus” with the Rebbe OB”M & from his teachings. I am sure that the Rebbe would have never approved of such a movement as it appears to be today about the association of the Rebbe OB”M & Mashiach. No question about it, that the Rebbe OB”M was a pioneer in intreducing the concept of “Mashiach Now” but never associated that with himself. Chabbad, one of the most beautiful movements in teaching & spreding Torah in the world does not benefit from such association of the Rebbe OB”M &… Read more »
LET’S CONTINUE IN THE ACHDUS WAY…
MOSHIACH NOW!
who has recording devices right after shabbos?
What is this truth that Rabbi Shapiro “knows” is the truth?
VeYaakov holach ledarko. Each one left (my own not-so-wild conjecture) confirmed in his own derech – darko – believing he was the Yaakov. But something significant did happen here, It happened before the event. Veho raya – the event. In chassidus everything is divided into 3. Rosh, toch, and sof. The rosh – where it starts or comes from. The toch – what it is. The sof what it becomes or accomplishes or where it goes. This “event” is most remarkable in where it comes from. The rosh. After 15 years, chassidim on both sides feel lost. [The louder they… Read more »
please clarify???…
It is moving to see that bachurim are able to hear them farbreng together rather than feel they have to choose between one or the other. It is also nice to see that OT’s hanhala has expanded their horizons to allow avremel to farbreng there a few years ago it would have been unheard of. May this be the start of many more such farbrengens. Personally I feel that if mainstream lubavitch would give the credit, kavod and validation that nachman is looking for and somewhat deserves, he would remove himself from the “meshichistim”. Nachman deep down knows the truth.… Read more »
if im not mistaken at 11 p.m. motzey shabbos it is permitted to record a farbrengen.
“reading helps — it should be done more often”
how can it be recorded if it happened on shabbos? and the mic in the photo is an archive picture – read the caption and the article
reading helps — it should be done more often
While Rav Shapira is a great thinker. He & all should remember that never before in Jewish history did we have such a movement of Moshiach. Yes, indeed we all want Moshiach now…but that is Not the Derech of Chabbad that I grew up. The Rebbe OB”M would have never let this take place.
avrohom shemtov took away the terutz from nachmen and pinyeh
yeah!! Lubavitch won!!
Moshiach NOW!
Are you going to post some clips from the frabrengen?
ain’t nuttin gonna change the most important fact –
the chessboard is missing a certain piece.
In a machlokos Lshem Shemayim their is no winners, as with hillel ans shammi, 2 diff ways of serving Hashem!!!
do you have any photos?
ברוך ה’
more the joint… than the farbrengen?
Lubavitch won!!!
Do you have any idea how sad your headline is. A rare Joint Farb. Is that was Lubavitch has come to, that we are so divided that a “joint” farbrengen makes headlines?
Ask yourselves this, WHAT would the Rebbe think?
its a beautiful thing!!!!!
please post